19 year old very low bone mineral density... GH candidate?

[MetalMX]

Hi,

Im 19 year old male at 6"3 and 98kg (215lbs) with some muscle due to my training for the past year and a half with bodybuilding but i have a HUGE bone structure so muscle wise i am not big.

I have recently found out i have a very low bone mineral density through a DEXA scan particularly in my spine. I have recently been having joint aches, pains and clicking in my knees, pelvic bone and spine. I have also been training for the past year and a half 3 days a week consistently so this is the only thing that has strengthened my bones and my good nutrition and supplement schedule.

Am i a candidate for GH replacement therapy?

I am STILL waiting to be put on testosterone replacement!!! I have also recently done a 24 hour urinary cortisol and ACTH stimulation test. And am seeing an endo on the 20th to see what treatment i will be on... not sure if this endo is even aware of E2 problems and i already have slight gyno. So basically with all my knowledge i have to be my own doctor to try and solve all this.

I have been very sick with symptoms of:

* Shortness of breath... more so now after eating.
* bradycardia/tachycardia.... cardiologist ruled out heart problems its all endocrine related
* extreme joint and bone pain and clicking... feels like they are about to fracture any second
* A lot of Muscle Atrophy
* Getting startled easily
* easy brusing, strechy skin
* loss of sensation of touch (which is odd)
* extreme fatigue/ brain fog
* muscle weakness
* hair loss
* waking up 3-4 times a night for the past 3 years. Cannot stay asleep.



Here are my recent endocrine results I dont know the ranges they weren't provided! lol but its all freaken low you get the picture:

TSH: 7.8 (0.5 - 4.00)
Free T4: 13.7 (8 - 22)

LH: 1.7 IU/L * ( 2.0 - 10.0)
FSH: 3.5 IU/L *
Prolactin: 13.9 ng/ml
Testosterone: 10.1 nmol/L (12 - 32) *
SHBG: 45.3 nmol/L *

ACTH: 15.3 pmol/L (2 - 12) *
Cortisol: 510 nmol/L *
Growth Hormone: 0.8 mU/L *
DHEA's: 3.2 umol/L *
Androstenedione Level: 6.5 nmol/L *
Oestradiol Level: 73 pmol/L *
IGF-1: 33.4 nmol/L *

I also always have very low cholesterol. And at the moment i am eating a high fat/moderate protein low carb diet

I also seem to have a reduction in appetite... and am assuming some sort of gastrointestinal malabsorbtion also since ive been taking vitamins/minerals all the time and when tested my zinc, iron, iodine levels for example we're low which is odd.


Any other advice would be well appreciated

 

[carbonium]

Going on GH at age 19 is the most expensive route you can take and clearly not the answer. You're 6'3" large boned and 215 pounds so GH was not a problem during your growing years. Do you have $5k-$10K per year to throw away?

Your tests show that your hypothyroid and getting that fixed should help with just about all of your symptoms. I see other things but low thyroid will give you hair loss, joint pain and bone loss. Thats your temperature? Do you know your blood glucose levels. Do you get brain fog, dizzy, sweaty, faster pulse 45 minutes to 2 hours after eating? Do people say you snore and or gasp for air at night? Sort of like you were panicking in your dreams?

You need to be really honest here to be helped. You're already 215 pounds at 19 and large boned. You're telling us that you have bone loss. Bones take years to deplete. So I'm wondering if something is missing out of this puzzle? Have you ever run cycles? Did you ever run Clen or T3. Are you suppressing your thyroid with your diet? Have you ever used fat burners or lot's of caffeine? Taken antibiotics, live around ticks? On any medication? What's your % of body fat? Been sick in the past for seemingly unrelated issues?

I'm trying to get to the route of the problem instead of treating symptoms.

 

[MetalMX]

I cannot live at the moment i have chronic fatigue ALL the time, i am not working or studying presently.

I only thought the GH would improve my general health but i have asked a doctor and he said it cannot be prescribed only for things such as short stature which i am not lacking. And i dont have 5-10k a year to throw away.

My situation is extremely complicated but i will try to explain it all to you and everyone else reading this.

I was always a fat kid, big boned , very tall, and little muscle. I didnt develop normally in terms of body hair or muscle growing up i always looked very skinny fat. I was also always hungry and tired. My penis was also very small and i didnt have a normal sex drive.

When i was 8 i had bronchitis and a lot of problems breathing and a lot of coughing but this only lasted for 2 months and went away. I then had my tonsils removed.

In 2005 i decided to do something about it and began weight training EVERY single day for an hour.... i went from 122kgs or so.... to a low of 69kgs in about a year. In that time i was hospitalised for anorexia nervosa twice for 2 months each time. First time at 80kgs, second time at 69kgs. I wasnt eating much and exercising a lot. I then looked to the bodybuilding magazine and though to myself this is what i want to pursue screw being a boney skeleton or going back to being a fat bastard. So i slowly added weight and went to normal.

2006 i had low T4 levels, high TSH and low testosterone this was first time i ever tested endocrine hormones.

In 2007 i was 88kgs still skinny fat. I then began weight training 3 days a weeks with a long term goal of becoming big and shredded, i researched about training, nutrition, supplements, endocrinology, steroids/hormones etc till i was blue in the face and knew everything their is to know. I gained some muscle at first as you usually do when you start training but my results we're mediocre even though i put in so much effort in the gym, effort in learning about proper training techniques, proper nutrition ( 5-6 meals, pre-post workout supplements etc.), and using different supplements. In september i used clenbuterol for the first time and in 2 weeks i had INSANE results i lost about 4-5kgs bodyfat and added noticable muscle i looked great V tapered and was very happy i used it 2 weeks off, 2 on i was 102kgs (224lbs with 2 pack abs.... for me 2 pack abs is fucking incredible from where i was before!. As soon as i got off clenbuterol i gained all the weight back even with a tedious rigid diet. I then used T3 in december only 25mcg a day for 3 weeks and felt great with it alot more energy, started actually gaining more muscle it was great but again as soon as i went off results dimished so i though something is seriously wrong here

In janurary 2008 i went to see an endocrinologist. He found i had very high thyroid peroxidase antibodies and diagnosed hashimotos thyroditis and put me on 100mcg of T4. I asked him about my low testosterone if he would address, he said it was fine lol! At first i felt good on the thyroxine he gave me but shortly after very unwell.

In March 2008 i was about 105kgs with a good deal of muscle but still bodyfat was an issue for me with my endocrine problems. I bought 2 bottles of what i THOUGHT was testosterone enanthate. I used 2mls a week for 4 weeks until i began having HORRIBLE symptoms.

In 4 weeks i went from 105kgs to 122kgs with a huge amuont of water retention, a moon face and massive amounts of muscle loss. My skin was very elasitc, brusied easily, hair loss and i began having shortness of breath and heart palpitations. I was about to kill myself after this, this ruined my life honestly from all the hard work i put in the gym as the gym is basically my life (yes sad but true the one thing that makes me happy).

In June i tested all my endocrine hormones and their we're all basically Nil, And my Creatine Kinase was about 1000!. I then used DNP 400mg a day for about 12 days (yeah im really smart, i deserve to die don't i...) and lost some weight with it.

In august i tested my hormones again and they we're back to what they we're before in janurary but i had many problems with the joint pain/aches, weakness, muscle loss, feeling unwell all the time. I also found out i had low zinc, iron, iodine and calcium levels EVEN THOUGH i had been supplementing with these for the past YEAR! He also found i have candida positive from previous infection and the cortisol definitly made this spread even worse as well as suppressing my immune system.

In august i then began having unexplained shortness of breath and went to the emergency room about 15 times in the next 2 months with this symptoms, i felt like i couldn't breath. So many blood tests done, so many ECG's done all normal.

In the end of september i went into the hospital.... finally got hospitalised after pleading with them.

Saw:

Chest Specialist - lungs are clear and fine, lung function tests we're very good, A CT scan of the chest showed residual thymic tissue but within normal limits for a person of my age.

Cardiologist - Did Ectocardiogram.. an insignifcant mirtal valve prolapse was found but it was too little to cause any symptoms. I did a cardio stress test which was also very good. The cardiologist looked at my 24 hour holter monitor that i did... and said that my bradycardia found was due to increased vagal tone due to the parasympathetic nervous system and the tachycardia was due to the high ACTH that i have and i have no heart problems and this is all endocrine related which i agree.

Abdominal ultrasound was normal. My left kidney is 9.5mcg (globally contracted) and right one is 13.5cm but they both look normal and Dr. said this is probably from birth. Normal spleen, liver and pancreas.

Endoscopy showed gastritis, colonoscopy was inconclusive.


And PRESENTLY:

I am seeing an endocrinologist, just did a 24 hour urinary cortisol and ACTH stimulation test and will be seeing them in a week. I have told them what i used in the past and they are well aware so they can take that into account. I am also seeing a neurologist who will look at my head and check if i have any possibly pituitary tumors which i think is highly possibly considering the high ACTH through an MRI.

My temperature is usually 35 Celcius to 35.5 Celcius which is very low and i have done a glucose tolerance test TWICE both times normal. My blood sugar levels are always low also. After eating now the only problem i experience is shortness of breath sometimes and a lot of saliva coming up which i have to spit out. Presently i do sometimes gasp for air or shake in my dreams as my sister has told me when i am sleeping. I have NEVER used antibiotics in my life. I have used a lot of fat burners and caffeine in the past yes.

I hope this answers everything....

My biggest concern is that i couldve permanently damaged my body with the use of Cortisol or DNP....

The cortisol definitly lowered my bone mineral density and i can seriously feel that my bones are actually smaller than before... my shoulders are more narrow etc.

I am just hoping to god someone here can help, i don't know where to turn to anymore.

 

[MetalMX]

And these are my current problems:

* Shortness of breath occuring sometimes for no reason.
* extreme joint and bone pain and clicking...
* Muscle/weight loss
* Getting startled easily
* easy brusing, strechy skin
* loss of sensation of touch (which is odd)
* fatigue and periods of brain fog
* muscle weakness
* hair loss
* waking up 3-4 times a night for the past 3 years. Cannot stay asleep.
* Not passing stools regularly sometimes 4 days between each despite eating a lot of food.
* Saliva coming up from stomach lots of it sometimes particularly after eating and i would have to keep spitting it out for 10 minutes.


One more thing... I have tested IgE levels in 2006 they we're at 2000 about 20 times higher than normal and im very allergic to common grasses and dust mites. Just recently tested IgE and it was 4000 but an immunologist i saw said this test is completely useless and he sees patients with IgE levels of 35000 with no symptoms.

I have a bit of kyphosis as well.

 

[hardasnails1973]

You are expereincing severe low thyroid issues which may be related to Post steroid with drawl. The goal of being Big is one of deception and alot of kids I know end up throwing their lives away to "fit". Being 19 I would not advocate ever a 19 year old taking steroids to get big. That is ludicrus. When proper nutrition, traning and right supplementation at the right time can get you to 70% there NATURALLY. I am not a psychologist, but usual people that turns to anabolics is usually root in a deep self issue either from current or past life expereinces. Sucidial thoughts are common for steroid with draw due to the fact that it does affect your brain chemistry.. You really need to examine by a good trained endo to see where the malfunction is. I have addressed you on other threads as well.. low gh is a syhmptoms of the effect and not primary the cause. Your cortisol is either sky high from the steroid with drawl which is extremely common. That needs to be ruled out. insulin may not appear right away. Your blood sugar test is fucken uselesss with out insulin being measure at the same time.. You can have normal blood sugar and your insulin be off the rocker. Which would be symptoms of the cause because of the elevated cortisol from the with drawl.. You can give monkey a drug but if it does not know how to eat it will not grow.

 

[MetalMX]

I never dreamed of using steroids, but because i was getting poor results i turned to them. And these we're corticosteroids not anabolic ones that we're sold to me, so the sides we're pretty fucked up. I have no sex drive now (not that i had much of one before) or erections.

You are right i need a good endo to figure out where the malfunction is and i am presently addressing that with my endo and another neurologist which is good.

I also have candida albicans tested positive through blood work which we're very high and i have a white coated tongue and i can see the growth on the back of my tongue. So i have other immune system issues and definitely intestinal permiability/leaky gut problems... i mean taking large amounts of vitamin/mineral supps and then having piss low zinc, iron, calcium levels etc is a sure sign of malabsorbtion. The gastroenterologist i will see will surely help me.

I am now well educated about medicine in general and can start tackling my health issues and then (hopefully very soon) i can begin bodybuilding again at 100% health.

In terms of the way i look i still want to be big and shredded i hate looking at a weak skinny or fat body i just couldnt live like that because i love to train and the lifestyle in general and i think most bodybuilders would agree.

I realize now health is number 1. once you have that you can do anything.


Is their anything in particular you recommend such as an MRI on the pituitary gland or anything else hardasnails?

 

[superone]

Have you done the Cortisol saliva test, where you test Cortisol levels at 8am, 12pm, 4-5pm, and midnight? What about DHEA-S?

 

[superone]

Also, have you had Reverse T3 tested?

To me it sounds like you have burnt out your adrenals with all the stress in your life, your thyroid issues,ect.

 

[hardasnails1973]

I'd hunt down the asshole that sold you the stuff LOL

 

[MetalMX]

I already know the asshole who sold me the stuff but i cant do anything about it now.

Reverse T3 and Saliva Cortisol way ahead of you...

Reverse T3: 261 pmol/L ( 140 - 540 )

This was done in august:

Testosterone: <3.5*L (100.0 - 720.0)
Cortisol Morning: 105.60*H (6.0 - 42.00)
Cortisol Afternoon: 17.40*H (2.00 - 15.00)
Cortisol Evening: 2.5 (1.0 - 8.0)
Melatonin: 1*L (10 - 40)


A anti-aging doctor i went to prescribed me arimidex and a testosterone cream which was 10mg/g and he said to apply 1g per day..... but i have never heard applying 1g per day of cream isnt it always about 5-10g per day...?

 

[superone]

Yikes man, thats a tough situation.

 

[MetalMX]

Tell me about it...

Its been a rollercoaster ride. I just hope my health gets back to normal, and my bones dont fuck up on me. My immune system is pretty compromised now also since cortisol is very suppressive to the immune system.

I have given myself cushings syndrome.

My part where my eyebrows are, is now dropping down on my eyelids so my skin has basically gone very elastic. When i try to train in the gym now my muscles get very sore very fast it just doesn't feel right. The clicking and cracking of the joints is really scary, i just dont feel like i use to.

How is this usually treated....

 

[carbonium]

You mentioned that you were given what you thought was a bottle of testosterone enanthate and it was some type corticosteroid instead of Test. I'm very skeptical that the bottle was corticosteroids. How do you know that is was in fact cort. I would think it would of suppressed your bodies on production of cort for some time. I think whatever you took even if it was Test just made your mild cushings worse.

You said you already had thyroid problems and weight problems and you have bone degeneration that probably has been going on for years. It sounds like you were already developing cushings. The haphazard use of Test, stimulants, T3, T4, Clen, DNP plus 2 hospitalizations for anorexia nervosa made things worse.

You also said T3 made you feel great and you lost weight. T4 made you feel good at first and then you felt worse. T4 takes several weeks to build up so you probably felt good at first but then your body couldn't handle it as the blood levels increased. You should of ramped up more slowly and even cut back a little to reduce sides eventually finding you can handle a higher dose over several months. It sounds like you need to be on Armour Thyroid that has both T3+T4 in it and to ramp up the dosages slowly. You also need to be treated for your high cortisol as it's trashing your body. Get your thyroid, Test and cortisol levels balanced. Every symptom you have mentioned in these posts should slowly self correct.

I already know the asshole who sold me the stuff but i cant do anything about it now.
Reverse T3 and Saliva Cortisol way ahead of you...

Reverse T3: 261 pmol/L ( 140 - 540 )

This was done in august:

Testosterone: <3.5*L (100.0 - 720.0)
Cortisol Morning: 105.60*H (6.0 - 42.00)
Cortisol Afternoon: 17.40*H (2.00 - 15.00)
Cortisol Evening: 2.5 (1.0 - 8.0)
Melatonin: 1*L (10 - 40)


A anti-aging doctor i went to prescribed me arimidex and a testosterone cream which was 10mg/g and he said to apply 1g per day..... but i have never heard applying 1g per day of cream isnt it always about 5-10g per day...?