1mg Arimidex too high?

[Delmann]

I just got back my bloodwork for my 2 month followup for TRT. Currently take 100mg of Test C weekly split into two doses (Tuesday/Friday) and 1500IU of HCG weekly split into three doses (M/W/F)

Estradiol: 71pg/mL (Reference below 39)
Total T: 673ng/dl (reference range 250-1100)
Testosterone, Free: 209.7pg/ml (35-155.0)
Hemoglobin 15.5 (13..2-17.1)
Hemocrit: 47.3 (38.5-50)
PSA, Total: 41

I'm wondering if I should just half my HCG dose instead and then rerun my E2 in 3-4 weeks to see if that brings me down or just split the Arimidex and take half a pill weekly instead of the full pill. I don't want to crash my E2

Bloods were drawn 3.5D after my last injection right before my Tuesday morning pin so at a trough.

Thanks

 

[Grey Spartan]

I would half the HCG, take the whole pill for 2 weeks then half a pill for the second 2 week then check again. This is what I did when my Estradiol was 51 and it was 25 after the 4 weeks. But, I was also taking 170mg of Test-C a week split into two doses (same HCG).

 

[Intrepid]

Are you trying to have a kid, or are you just concerned about slightly smaller testicles?

If you're going constantly be on TRT, and the above doesnt apply I don't really see the purpose of HCG. All you're doing is risking desensitization.

"Studies on hCG and Leydig cell desensitization have investigated how human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) can cause Leydig cells to become unresponsive to gonadotropin stimulation:


Receptor downregulation
A single injection of hCG can cause a reduction in the number of hCG receptors on Leydig cells. This can make it less likely that the receptors will be activated.

Suppressed cAMP-mediated response
hCG can also increase the activity of PDE, which suppresses the cAMP-mediated response. This provides another way for Leydig cells to resist activation.

Defective coupling
Even when binding sites are present and adenylate cyclase is normal, hCG-induced desensitization can occur. This could be due to a defective coupling between the receptor sites and the catalytic subunit. "


and even if you did crash your estrogen, it would bounce back very quickly. I'd reduce the HCG a bit and that'll help stop the estrogen spikes

 

[Delmann]

Are you trying to have a kid, or are you just concerned about slightly smaller testicles?

If you're going constantly be on TRT, and the above doesnt apply I don't really see the purpose of HCG. All you're doing is risking desensitization.

"Studies on hCG and Leydig cell desensitization have investigated how human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) can cause Leydig cells to become unresponsive to gonadotropin stimulation:


Receptor downregulation
A single injection of hCG can cause a reduction in the number of hCG receptors on Leydig cells. This can make it less likely that the receptors will be activated.

Suppressed cAMP-mediated response
hCG can also increase the activity of PDE, which suppresses the cAMP-mediated response. This provides another way for Leydig cells to resist activation.

Defective coupling
Even when binding sites are present and adenylate cyclase is normal, hCG-induced desensitization can occur. This could be due to a defective coupling between the receptor sites and the catalytic subunit. "


and even if you did crash your estrogen, it would bounce back very quickly. I'd reduce the HCG a bit and that'll help stop the estrogen spikes

Hey, thanks of the response,

Right now I am not trying to have a kid. I may want one in the future but not currently. I am just trying to stave off testicular atrophy. the 1500IU was what the doctor had told me to take, and I don't mind reducing it.

Plan to do TRT for the rest of my life and once I'm in better shape and been training for awhile do a blast but at my current physique I don't think it's smart so holding off until I'm at a better point in my fitness journey.

Just to make sure I understand correctly, are you just recommending I reduce the HCG dose and don't take the AI? Or stop the HCG completely (and still not take the AI)? Or do what Grey suggested and take the 1mg for 2 weeks and then half a dose, while also reducing my HCG by half.

Thanks again

 

[narta]

I may want one in the future but not currently.

If that is in your future, get off and become fertile, freeze some sperm and then hop back on. Longer the exposure to gear, longer the period you will need to have viable swimmers if any

 

[Intrepid]

Hey, thanks of the response,

Right now I am not trying to have a kid. I may want one in the future but not currently. I am just trying to stave off testicular atrophy. the 1500IU was what the doctor had told me to take, and I don't mind reducing it.

Plan to do TRT for the rest of my life and once I'm in better shape and been training for awhile do a blast but at my current physique I don't think it's smart so holding off until I'm at a better point in my fitness journey.

Just to make sure I understand correctly, are you just recommending I reduce the HCG dose and don't take the AI? Or stop the HCG completely (and still not take the AI)? Or do what Grey suggested and take the 1mg for 2 weeks and then half a dose, while also reducing my HCG by half.

Thanks again

for your purposes maybe keep hcg the same, then just increase the AI. you just need to get your estrogen down.

so either:
-reduce HCG and keep AI dose the same
-keep HCG the same, and increase AI dose

also look into HMG "Human Menopausal Gonadotropin" ; it's exactly what you're going to want if youre trying to conceive

 

[Delmann]

Awesome, thank you guys for the feedback, it gives me a lot to think about.

Appreciate the advise.

 

[Jabbathehutt]

Reduce body fat and inject ED.

 

[Delmann]

Working on the fat reduction. I have some sides from the high e2 (fatigue) but have been working out consistently for last 6 months with an emphasis on my diet and working on building mor muscle and reducing my fat, I know it'll help once slim down a bit. Trying to avoid the ED injection for now (for the TRT at least) maybe I'll look into ED for HCG but I would wanna wait for my next vial so I can reconstitute it in a way that it'll be easy to draw with.

Current plan is to reduce HCG to 750IU a week and take 0.5mg of Arimidex with each injection followed by bloods in a month, if my E2 is tanked I will switch to just 0.5mg of Arimidex a week and check again after 3-4 weeks to see where I'm at.

Thanks

 

[Jabbathehutt]

I would approach it in a different way. I would stop the AI and inject ED. Test after 4-6 weeks and see where your E2 is, then add an AI if needed. If worried about having kids, look into freezing sperm and forget the HCG.

 

[HUGE McBIGLARGE]

Based on my labs, dropping HCG from 100iu to 0iu every day had no noticeable impact on my e2.

If I was you and had your lab results, i would add 1mg of anastrozole split 4x per week. I would also inject T either EoD or ED.

And then I’d retest my e2 after a week. AIs work fast, so a week is enough to get a good idea of where your e2 is.

I think this is a good way to do it, as you find out within a week if you’re in range.

I found it frustrating to lower my HCG dose, lower my T dose, add a low dose of anastrozole, or change the dosing frequency or locations of T administration, wait 2 months to retest, only to find it did nothing to lower my e2.

I’ve spent over 2 years chasing an in-range e2 by using “normal” doses of anastrozole relative to the T and HCG im taking, and it never worked.

If I could go back in time, I’d blast anastrozole at whatever dose was needed to get my e2 in range, and then tweak HCG and T afterwards. It would have been much faster to do it that way.

At 210mg of TE per week, 700iu HCG per week, I needed 3.5mg of anastrozole to get my e2 in range. I’m now trying exemestane instead to see if I don’t need such a FAT anastrozole dose

Sorry for rambling. Here’s a list of what I’d do in order:
1: T injections ED or EoD. 1mg of anastrozole per week split into 4 doses
2: retest e2 after a week. If e2 is high, add more anastrozole. If e2 is low, lower anastrozole. Repeat as necessary
3: once your e2 is in range, stay on the same anastrozole dose and drop the HCG for a month. See if it affects your e2. If it does, consider a low HCG dose or just stay off it
4: if you’re taking a fat anastrozole dose (anything above 1.5mg per week at 100mg test per week) consider exemestane to see if it works better for you

 

[Delmann]

Based on my labs, dropping HCG from 100iu to 0iu every day had no noticeable impact on my e2.

If I was you and had your lab results, i would add 1mg of anastrozole split 4x per week. I would also inject T either EoD or ED.

And then I’d retest my e2 after a week. AIs work fast, so a week is enough to get a good idea of where your e2 is.

I think this is a good way to do it, as you find out within a week if you’re in range.

I found it frustrating to lower my HCG dose, lower my T dose, add a low dose of anastrozole, or change the dosing frequency or locations of T administration, wait 2 months to retest, only to find it did nothing to lower my e2.

I’ve spent over 2 years chasing an in-range e2 by using “normal” doses of anastrozole relative to the T and HCG im taking, and it never worked.

If I could go back in time, I’d blast anastrozole at whatever dose was needed to get my e2 in range, and then tweak HCG and T afterwards. It would have been much faster to do it that way.

At 210mg of TE per week, 700iu HCG per week, I needed 3.5mg of anastrozole to get my e2 in range. I’m now trying exemestane instead to see if I don’t need such a FAT anastrozole dose

Sorry for rambling. Here’s a list of what I’d do in order:
1: T injections ED or EoD. 1mg of anastrozole per week split into 4 doses
2: retest e2 after a week. If e2 is high, add more anastrozole. If e2 is low, lower anastrozole. Repeat as necessary
3: once your e2 is in range, stay on the same anastrozole dose and drop the HCG for a month. See if it affects your e2. If it does, consider a low HCG dose or just stay off it
4: if you’re taking a fat anastrozole dose (anything above 1.5mg per week at 100mg test per week) consider exemestane to see if it works better for you

Appreciate the advise, yeah if I can test sooner than 4 weeks I'll try out a modified plan, I'm actually a bit surprised I had such high E2 with such a low dose of T and HCG. I'm curious if lowering the HCG will actually lower my E2..I was trying to avoid having to pin EOD or ED since I'd be pinning such a low amount of volume but i've gotten multiple reccomendations about it so might have to give it a go and maybe just pin EoD to see how it goes.

 

[HUGE McBIGLARGE]

I'm actually a bit surprised I had such high E2 with such a low dose of T and HCG.

I was utterly FLABBERGASTED when my e2 kept coming back high no matter what T dose I injected.

I'm curious if lowering the HCG will actually lower my E2..

It will to some degree, certainly. But how much is a question for the test results to answer. Obviously if the HCG doubles your e2 you’ve gotta lower the dose (possibly to 0), but if it only raises your e2 by like 10% then you might as well just take 10% more of an AI.

was trying to avoid having to pin EOD or ED since I'd be pinning such a low amount of volume but i've gotten multiple reccomendations about it so might have to give it a go and maybe just pin EoD to see how it goes.

You probably can continue to pin twice a week. It probably doesn’t make any difference pinning more frequently. But pinning ED or EoD is never going to be a bad idea, and it takes away one more variable for fixing skewed blood work.

I take HCG daily not because i think it’s more therapeutic that way, but because if I take HCG 2x per week and my blood tests come back with values out of range, I’m going to glare at the 2x weekly HCG dosage with suspicion and then start pointing the finger at that.

 

[Delmann]

Ya I feel that...my bloodwork was done in a trough as well right before my first pin of the week. I'll have to spend the next few weeks getting bloods done and adjusting how much AI I take and see what the sweet spot is. I definately don't mind doing bloodwork often if it means getting fully dialed in on everything.

Subq I don't actually mind pinning daily I was just trying to avoid the IM ED injections even tho I use a 27g 1.25inch needle I still hestitate a bit haha, I'm sure I'll get used to it eventually....will have to since I do want to blast around this time next year if I can get my physique in a good spot.

 

[HUGE McBIGLARGE]

Ya I feel that...my bloodwork was done in a trough as well right before my first pin of the week. I'll have to spend the next few weeks getting bloods done and adjusting how much AI I take and see what the sweet spot is. I definately don't mind doing bloodwork often if it means getting fully dialed in on everything.

Subq I don't actually mind pinning daily I was just trying to avoid the IM ED injections even tho I use a 27g 1.25inch needle I still hestitate a bit haha, I'm sure I'll get used to it eventually....will have to since I do want to blast around this time next year if I can get my physique in a good spot.

Yeah I hate IM injections. Subq is easier to administer but 99% of the time the subsequent lump is very tender to the touch.

IM is frustrating because during administration it either doesn’t hurt at all, or it absolutely fucking kills. One time I did my quad and my quad went into a spasm. Was freaky feeling my muscle contract around the needle.

I dunno why people use such long needles for IM. I went IM into quads and glutes with half inch needles just fine. It was definitely IM as I never got a lump, and the PIP was only felt during squats and quickly wore off once I had warmed up. I’m not particularly lean at around 17% BF

I do subq if I’m injecting 0.3ml or under. Everything over 0.3ml goes IM. The PIPpy lump from subq pisses me off too much if I go subq over 0.3ml.