1st cycle @40 yrs old.

[Northern Nutrition]

The average healthy male produces around 7-11mg of endogenous testosterone per week.

500mg per week is the standard. But 250mg E5D is perfectly fine for your first cycle. Which ever you choose ensure that you run your AI on-cycle, especially if you neglect to have pre-cycle bloods done. Start it wk 1 @ .25mg EOD (every other day)

Do some more research on a first cycle, and pay attention to the potential side effects and how to effectively combat them should they arise. You dont appear as though youve give this much thought. If you want to run a successful cycle, bury your head in this topic and dont leave any stones unturned.

 

[johnnyrotten94]

@Northern Nutrition Several guys including myself have expressed the same things in previous posts...it unfortunately seems as if this guy wants the "easy" way around researching. I hope he takes the advice of these posts, and researches this stuff, or he could be in for troubled times on his cycle...just my opinion.

 

[Northern Nutrition]

Unfortunately, some bb'rs learn the hard way. All we can do is offer them guidance and try to point them in the right direction in hopes of preventing them from causing any serious health issues.

Education is paramount in this game.

 

[Archimedes]

It's not bad for a first cycle but I mean I would do it just a bit different.

I would run it 12 weeks. Also you don't wanna have something "in case of gyno", you should take an ai throught out cycle to prevent gyno from even being a possibility. I didn't like an idiot and the symptoms hit me fast and hard. Don't use nolvadex as your ai either.

You didn't mention anything about a pct though?

What is wrong with Nolvadex?

 

[jabo]

What is wrong with Nolvadex?

You don't use nolvadex as an AI on cycle. It's for pct use

 

[Archimedes]

Thanks so much with all the info ...will do my base line test also. just 1 more question.. is 250 mg say every 5 days enough for my first cylce? Would I get any type of gains with this I have a very good diet and training 5 days a week .. or do 500mg every week

I think that is what people are trying to tell you. Sustanon is just test with four different Esters, it makes something simple i.e. 2x injections a week vs. now you need to plot things out before you get a big suprise in week 4 with your new set of tits.

 

[Archimedes]

You don't use nolvadex as an AI on cycle. It's for pct use

Who told you that? Arimidex will stop 50% of the conversion but if you fuck up it's not going to help. A anti-estrogen will block in the breast tissue (which is exacly what you want) and active receptors in the bones.

 

[jabo]

Who told you that? Arimidex will stop 50% of the conversion but if you fuck up it's not going to help. A anti-estrogen will block in the breast tissue (which is exacly what you want) and active receptors in the bones.

We weren't talking about if the person fucked up and was getting symptoms, we were talking about in general and you do not use nolvadex as your AI on cycle. Obviously if gyno symptoms occur you can use it to help combat symptoms but no it's stupid to use nolvadex as your basic AI for cycles.

You can use it if you want but I'll be like the other 99.99% of people that don't use nolvadex as there AI and use it as there PCT

 

[Archimedes]

We weren't talking about if the person fucked up and was getting symptoms, we were talking about in general and you do not use nolvadex as your AI on cycle. Obviously if gyno symptoms occur you can use it to help combat symptoms but no it's stupid to use nolvadex as your basic AI for cycles.

You can use it if you want but I'll be like the other 99.99% of people that don't use nolvadex as there AI and use it as there PCT

Fair Enough

 

[Josh1628]

I do hear all of everyone advice and thanks ..
1st week pre cycle with what???
weeks 1-12 500mg every 5 days
weeks 1-4 30mg of turnibol
week 14 start pct

 

[jacked44]

I personally think that you will get a better kick-start with dbol over tbol.

 

[BIGMESC]

Doc,
Would a person run SERMS through out a cycle, or only as symptoms occur?

Typically I don't run either SERMS or an AI till my nips start to get that feeling
Then I wack 1mg of adex and 40mg of nolva day one then 20mg ed till it goes away.

I know from blood work that this occurs when my E2 gets to around 150-200 on a 7-42 scale
Then I use adex .5mg twice a week from then on and that will put me at 50-60

Factors
I do not have any gyno
I do run over 500mg of test a week - usually 600-1000mg depending on cycle.

To my knowledge the ONLY drug class that has been studied for the treatment of male gynecomastia is SERMS! AI's should be reserved for those that fail SERM treatment which is unusual IF used in the correct doses, for an appropriate duration, AND with a LEGITIMATE drug.

(Dr Scally if you are aware of any literature to the contrary, the use of AI's as therapy for GYNECOMASTIA, please post it.)

What do I mean by the latter? Most if not all SERM failures are bc UGL SERMS were used, where quality control is usually an afterthought.

The cause of gynecomastia is NOT estrogen (if that was the case ALL males whether cycling or not would have it) BUT rather the presence of "hyperresponsive" E-2 dependent breast tissue itself. That's why BLOCKING the E-2 breast receptors with an SERM is considered FIRST LINE medical therapy for gynecomastia.

Finally all AI's elicit a similar decrease in total estrogen load (E-2, E-1, E-3) when administered in equipotent amounts.

Moreover since many mates do not NEED an AI or a SERM when TT is supplemented at roughly 500mg/wk, or less, why use ANY drug as prophylaxis when there is nothing to prophylax.

AFTER YOU OBTAIN BASELINE LABS, begin the TT at 200 mg/week to determine if your prone to gynecomastia and start SERM therapy if such is the case. OBVIOUSLY do not increase the TT dose as originally planned until the symptoms RESOLVE!

 

[BIGMESC]

I do hear all of everyone advice and thanks ..
1st week pre cycle with what???
weeks 1-12 500mg every 5 days
weeks 1-4 30mg of turnibol
week 14 start pct

First cycle I would finish with the oral so you know for a fact how your body responds to test.
Sust has a very long ester (undecanoate) that will take more than 2 weeks to clear go 3 weeks min between last pin and PCT or run the Sust for 10 weeks switch to Prop for 2 weeks wait a week and start pct.

 

[johnnyrotten94]

I do hear all of everyone advice and thanks ..
1st week pre cycle with what???
weeks 1-12 500mg every 5 days
weeks 1-4 30mg of turnibol
week 14 start pct

You do what you want, but simple is your BEST bet for a FIRST cycle...test only is simple, and you'll get great gains, provided you eat right, and you get good gear...again IMO

 

[Northern Nutrition]

Doc,
Would a person run SERMS through out a cycle, or only as symptoms occur?

Typically I don't run either SERMS or an AI till my nips start to get that feeling
Then I wack 1mg of adex and 40mg of nolva day one then 20mg ed till it goes away.

I know from blood work that this occurs when my E2 gets to around 150-200 on a 7-42 scale
Then I use adex .5mg twice a week from then on and that will put me at 50-60

Factors
I do not have any gyno
I do run over 500mg of test a week - usually 600-1000mg depending on cycle.

Youve answered your own question.

 

[BIGMESC]

Youve answered your own question.

yeah I tend to do that

 

[Josh1628]

This will be a topical day..
7am - 5 egg whites
bowl of real oatmeal
glass of skim milk
10am- 35 grams of whey mix with skim milk... love milk ☺
1 apple. All have 15 min break
1pm- chicken breast with brown rice
Lots of water
4pm- chicken breast
Strawberry
Water
5pm - workout 45 mins
6pm - post workout shake 40 grams
Whey isolate
1 bannana
7pm - dinner.... steak /veggies
Sweet patato
Glass of milk
930pm casien shake 40 grams

 

[ATodd]

All good advice. I too used Sust before I had any knowledge of AAS's. It's funny how so many new timers gravitate toward it (myself included). Wow! Look! It's got 4 different testosterones! With what I know now, I don't use it. Not going to hurt you, just complicates pct, at least by my rationale.
Atodd

 

[Josh1628]

They say from my research on last shot usually with sustanon 250 pct start after 2 weeks from last shot 3 tops unless of problems already. .

 

[Northern Nutrition]

Just finish your cycle with prop and begin PCT in 3 days. Then dont use Sust again.