3 year blast and cruise

[BoulderJoust]

78ng/dL. Is my current test level. My doctor only did bloodwork for testosterone. I have been off steroids for 4 months I did 10iu hcg 1k iu a day for 10 days than I ran nolva at 40 mg a day for 20 days than 20mg for another 20 days. I started pct early 21 days after my last test e injection. Will I be shut down for life? Or is there a proper pct I can run? I’m almost 37 years old. I have really bad fatigue and have lost all of my hard earned muscle even though I workout. How long after using hcg can you start using serms or should I skip the hcg at this point since my balls are normal in size now. I know I messed up I appreciate any advice thank you all.

 

[BoulderJoust]

I just bought my pct meds. 2k iu hcg eod for 20 days than I will start, 40 mg nolva and 50mg clomid for 45 days. I’m still curious how long after the hcg do I start the nolva and clomid. Will this put my testosterone into the normal range? I feel fatigued and it’s effecting work. How long does the fatigue last? Does anyone have a similar experience and hopefully a successful story?

 

[kosp]

Read this thread:

Recovery from 4 year blast and cruise.

You can expect a long pct of some years.

 

[BoulderJoust]

Thank you I have read that already. I was wondering how long does the fatigue last? Will the hcg I just ordered take away my fatigue while I’m suplimenting? I felt way more fatigue coming off deca. Than when I started a test only cycle which took away all my fatigue and made me feel great again. I just could not handle the Deca withdrawal ever since than I only ran light cycles of test and eq. Now that I’m coming off a light cycle it’s not as bad but it’s still difficult working in a physically demanding job. I am going to do the power pct and if I don’t recover it’s trt for me. I’m also scheduling an appointment with an endocrinologist to see if I’m still fertile or permanently shut down.

 

[kosp]

You are the one who did not complain about dick issues though, considering your delicate situation. You are a man.

 

[BoulderJoust]

My fiancé is over seas not an issue right now. I won’t see her till semester break in January.
She is taking Doctorate of pharmacy. I’m more concerned with my fatigue and if the hcg and serms will help with my fatigue as I recover. If I don’t recover I’ll take testosterone before flying to the Philippines.

 

[BoulderJoust]

Hoping that the power pct will make me feel normal in 3 months any thoughts from someone who has gone through this or is 78ng/dL to low to recover from at this point.

 

[kosp]

Hoping that the power pct will make me feel normal in 3 months any thoughts from someone who has gone through this or is 78ng/dL to low to recover from at this point.

Everything is possible but seriously, a 3 years B&C shut down is no joke. You got a challenge here

 

[Sharkweek]

My suggestion:

Run HCG at 1500iu e3d until bloodwork shows tt levels over 500ng/dl. At that point switch to clomid/nolva at 50/20, run that until lh and fsh levels are in the middle/top of the normal ranges. Then taper off the SERMS and see where levels are 6-8 weeks from last SERM dose.

At that point you should have a decent indication if you are recovering, or if you have primary or secondary hypogonadism.

 

[BoulderJoust]

Can you overlap the hcg with nolva and clomid? And why do you recommend tapering off the clomid and nolva.
sharkweek? I was planning on running clomid at 100mg and the nolva at 40mg for 45 days on both. I have 20k iu of hcg. I was thinking 2k iu eod for 20 days is there a benefit to reducing it to 1500iu for 40 days than switching to serms. I live In Oregon USA can you explain how I can get bloods done whenever I want? I have good insurance but my pcp was not going to let me have my testosterone even checked till I mentioned using steroids.

 

[Sharkweek]

Can you overlap the hcg with nolva and clomid? And why do you recommend tapering off the clomid and nolva.
sharkweek? I was planning on running clomid at 100mg and the nolva at 40mg for 45 days on both. I have 20k iu of hcg. I was thinking 2k iu eod for 20 days is there a benefit to reducing it to 1500iu for 40 days than switching to serms. I live In Oregon USA can you explain how I can get bloods done whenever I want? I have good insurance but my pcp was not going to let me have my testosterone even checked till I mentioned using steroids.

You can overlap them some, the only reason to do so in my opinion is to have serum levels of them elevated as soon as the hcg stops, but to me starting them the day after your last HCG pin still gets you elevated by the time the HCG clears. HCG (especially at 1500 or 2000IU is going to be trying to stop LH/FSH release as your body sees that you have a ton of LH (or what appears to be LH) and estrogen in your blood.

I beleive studies have shown the saturation dose of clomid to be like 49mg or something, so anything over that will only create worse side effects. Doing clomid and nolva together isn't even really needed, but they work slightly differently, and some people only seem respond to one or the other, so doing both is kind of a catch all. 50mg of clomid, and 20mg of nolva are the highest doses you would ever get prescribed, and you are doing both of them at the same time.

I think it's preferably to run less drugs, for more time as opposed to the opposite. If 1500IU doesn't do it, I don't think 2000IU would really make much difference, except for more estrogen. What you are really trying to do with the HCG is get your leydig cells responding to LH, and undo the atrophy from being shutdown. You may want to have some Aromasin/Arimidex on hand for the HCG period.

For bloodwork, I like to use Privatemdlabs. When you checkout you can find a local lab that will do the blood draw. This is an out of pocket type of test. This is the test I use:

Body Builder Testing | Private MD Labs

 

[BoulderJoust]

Sharkweek what panel do you order?

 

[The Terminator]

Well that all depends on how well your balls respond. If they’re fairly responsive you might start feeling better after your first shot of hCG. I tried taking clomid/tamoxifen coming off of nearly 2 years of trt thinking since I used hCG during the last 8 months I wouldn’t need it, only did a couple small shots after my last trt shot. I quickly felt a little foggy I guess, my T was 240-175. The day I tested 175 I started hCG again at 1000iu eod, then 1000iu 3x wk, felt the slight fog start to disappear after an hour or 2 of the first shot.

Yes you can have an overlap of hCG and serms. Some extreme cases might require higher doses of hCG, I’ve read extreme cases required 5000iu 2-3x per week. If your balls ain’t making T from your dose of hCG then they won’t be making E either. For me 1000iu 3x week was enough to get me to 694 after a few weeks. Took a low dose of clomid throughout for the fsh. Not gonna lie 78ng/dL four months post T isn’t the best sign, but recovery is still possible.

 

[Sharkweek]

Sharkweek what panel do you order?

Just the top one, the $69 one.

 

[BirdieNumNum]

(especially at 1500 or 2000IU is going to be trying to stop LH/FSH release as your body sees that you have a ton of LH (or what appears to be LH) and estrogen in your blood.



For

Its actually the rise of TT that suppresses you from HCG not the the HCG itself.
Good luck @BoulderJoust you'll recover mate.

 

[BoulderJoust]

I appreciate the advice, I don’t want to be on trt for the rest of my life. So if the hcg brings my testosterone levels up it means I will recover? Or is that just a gauge of when to start serms?

 

[Sharkweek]

I appreciate the advice, I don’t want to be on trt for the rest of my life. So if the hcg brings my testosterone levels up it means I will recover? Or is that just a gauge of when to start serms?

It is a good sign that you do not have primary hypogonadism, as well as a sign of when to start serms. No gauruntees still, but it's a decent indication.

Ultimately, if you take AAS you are taking the risk of HRT, among other things. It's just part of the entry price.

 

[BoulderJoust]

At 78ng/dl after 4 months off steroids, what are the chances I’m sterile? My fiancé wants kids? And how much hcg should I have on hand to begin a proper pct for a 3 year blast and cruise? Also I took 20mg nolva 2 days in a row from my last unsuccessful pct that was poorly planed and the brain fog is gone is this a good sign? I’m stopping till my pct meds get here in 3 weeks to do a proper pct.

 

[Sharkweek]

At 78ng/dl after 4 months off steroids, what are the chances I’m sterile? My fiancé wants kids? And how much hcg should I have on hand to begin a proper pct for a 3 year blast and cruise? Also I took 20mg nolva 2 days in a row from my last unsuccessful pct that was poorly planed and the brain fog is gone is this a good sign? I’m stopping till my pct meds get here in 3 weeks to do a proper pct.

Honestly impossible to say, I would be very surprised if you were sterile though.

I'm going to send you a pm

 

[The Terminator]

I appreciate the advice, I don’t want to be on trt for the rest of my life. So if the hcg brings my testosterone levels up it means I will recover? Or is that just a gauge of when to start serms?

At 78ng/dl after 4 months off steroids, what are the chances I’m sterile? My fiancé wants kids? And how much hcg should I have on hand to begin a proper pct for a 3 year blast and cruise? Also I took 20mg nolva 2 days in a row from my last unsuccessful pct that was poorly planed and the brain fog is gone is this a good sign? I’m stopping till my pct meds get here in 3 weeks to do a proper pct.

It would be a good sign for sure, means that recovery is possible, and you’d want to be at 450 at least before you start serms. You’ve been on for a long time so no need to rush, you could stay on hCG even longer before switching to serms. At the very least it means fertility is likely to return with help.

There’s a good chance you have oligospermia (low sperm) or azoospermia (no sperm) right now, because it takes a minimum of 3 months for new sperm, most will have affected sperm from roids, and you’re at 78ng. That doesn’t mean it’s forever tho, and you could be fertile, you need high T inside your balls (ITT) for sperm not in your blood. For the nattys ITT levels are like 100x (if I remember correctly) higher than serum T, basically the extra T gets distributed out of your balls. If not fertile you can get there with pct + time, assuming you were fertile before.

So basically time + pct is what you need.