Hi Guys,
New to this forum, but I've read a lot of posts over the years and you guys seem to know what you're talking about, so I thought I'd ask. I'm in the UK and working with a good Urologist who's happy to try more alternative options to just straight forward TRT.
Firstly, a bit of background.
- I've never taken steroids or T for physical performance purposes.
- Age of 18 diagnosed with depression because I was suffering heavily with anxiety all of a sudden. Started taking Seroxat AD at 20mg a day for 7 years.
- Decided that the Seroxat wasn't helping and switched to Clompiramine - a Tri-Cyclic antidepressant for 2 years. Felt a lot less anxious, but gained about 85lbs and felt really sluggish.
- In 2009 I got my hormones checked and my T level was found to be 5.7ng/dl with UK reference range being between 10 and 30. Went to see an Endo and has my FSH and LH were elevated to the high end of normal range, I was diagnosed as primary and put on testogel at 2 sachets a day. Felt great for about 4 days, then went back to feeling normal again.
- Carried on taking testogel until 2011 until I realised that it would be affecting my fertility, and came off it. Also got off all the anti depressants and started hitting the gym hard and taking lots of supplements (Vit D, Omega 3-6-9 etc) and felt good. Lost approx 60lbs in weight. During this time, my balls shrunk a lot, my left one dropping to approx 10ml, with the right being slightly larger at 15ml.
- Started seeing Urologist earlier this year, here are my baseline bloods:
05/04/2013 - Baseline
Testosterone = 10.0 nmol/L Range (8.4 - 28.7)
FSH = 22 IU/L Range (1.4 - 18.1)
LH = 5.5 IU/L Range (1.5 - 9.3)
Cortisol = 339 nmol/L Range (140 - 690)
SHBG = 33.7 nmol/L Range (17.3 - 65.8)
TSH = 2.2 mu/L Range (0.35 - 5.0)
Prolactin = 185 miu/L Range (45-375)
Vitamin D = 71 nmol/L Range (75-200)
Albumin = 48 g/L Range (35-50)
Calculated Free Testosterone = 0.183 nmol/L Range (0.167 - 0.588)
- As the first Endo I had seen had diagnosed me as primary, I just wanted to confim for my own sanity that Clomid wouldn't make my balls do anything. So I took 50mg Clomid ED for 3 months, here are the results:
17/06/2013 - 50mg Clomid ED - 3 Months
FSH = 55.9 IU/L Range (1.4 - 18.1)
LH = 29.0 IU/L Range (1.5 - 9.3)
Oestradiol = 213 pmol/L Range (<146)
Testosterone = 23.8 nmol/L Range (8.4 - 28.7)
As you can see my FSH and LH sky rocketed as did my T. But I felt crap and I'm pretty sure that was caused by me Oestradiol (E2) levels
- Went back to the Urologist and we decided to cut down the dose of Clomid but also add in Arimidex at 1mg a day to see if that would help my E2. Here are the results after 3 months:
30/09/2013 - 12.5mg Clomid ED + 1mg Arimidex ED - 3 Months
FSH = 39.6 IU/L Range (1.4 - 18.1)
LH = 21.3 IU/L Range (1.5 - 9.3)
Oestradiol = 184 pmol/L Range ( < 146)
Testosterone = 20.0 nmol/L range (8.4 - 28.7)
I have to say, that I felt pretty good at that dose, I was emotionally solid, confident, happy but had little to no sex drive or libido.
I have also had semen analysis done at each blood test. Generally, we've seen a big jump in the quality of the sperm, but the concentration has currently only risen from ~0.4million per ml to ~1million per ml. Quite a long way to go. However, fortunately, the better quality sperm helped us with an ICSI round and we're due to have our first baby in Feb 2014
So, the question is, what do I do now. I feel pretty crappy right now, but that's because I've been taking the clomid without the Arimidex, so I've added it back in. I've read on various other posts that I may be suffering from high ITT aromatisation which the Arimidex may not help with.
I was wondering if anyone could offer some suggestions, my current thoughts are:
1 - Carry on at 12.5mg Clomid ED + 1mg Arimidex - When I try and take either dose down, I start to feel really depressed and anxious. I just have no sex drive, not interested in sex, no morning wood, just not bothered about it.
2 - Switch to Tamoxifen (at what dose?) Do I also take Arimidex with that?
3 - I could try HCG injections
4 - TRT
5 - Anything else I can do to get my E2 levels lower?!
6 - Try a restart?
Help!! I really feel like I have found the answer to why I've felt depressed and Anxious all of my adult life, I just don't seem to be able to find a way to get the hormone levels under control to live with it.
I've been all over the place this week emotionally, really anxious, depressed, even crying at one point. I've stopped taking the Citalopram as I took 10mg for 3 days in a row and my anxiety/depression got worse and I also felt sick and started sweating profusely. Basically, getting all of the side effects of an SSRI and none of the benefits.
So have a couple of questions
1 - Based on all of the information, am I definitely primary? Or do we think there is a possibility that I could reboot my system and get it going?
2 - Are there any other things that I can take to increase my dopamine levels?
I'm not going to be able to get any Nolvadex until the new year, so I'll stick with Clomid for the time being. Also, with Nolvadex, how long can you take it for? I know that they're now supporting long term use of clomid, but I think Nolvadex tops out at 5 years with the risk of causing cancer?
New to this forum, but I've read a lot of posts over the years and you guys seem to know what you're talking about, so I thought I'd ask. I'm in the UK and working with a good Urologist who's happy to try more alternative options to just straight forward TRT.
Firstly, a bit of background.
- I've never taken steroids or T for physical performance purposes.
- Age of 18 diagnosed with depression because I was suffering heavily with anxiety all of a sudden. Started taking Seroxat AD at 20mg a day for 7 years.
- Decided that the Seroxat wasn't helping and switched to Clompiramine - a Tri-Cyclic antidepressant for 2 years. Felt a lot less anxious, but gained about 85lbs and felt really sluggish.
- In 2009 I got my hormones checked and my T level was found to be 5.7ng/dl with UK reference range being between 10 and 30. Went to see an Endo and has my FSH and LH were elevated to the high end of normal range, I was diagnosed as primary and put on testogel at 2 sachets a day. Felt great for about 4 days, then went back to feeling normal again.
- Carried on taking testogel until 2011 until I realised that it would be affecting my fertility, and came off it. Also got off all the anti depressants and started hitting the gym hard and taking lots of supplements (Vit D, Omega 3-6-9 etc) and felt good. Lost approx 60lbs in weight. During this time, my balls shrunk a lot, my left one dropping to approx 10ml, with the right being slightly larger at 15ml.
- Started seeing Urologist earlier this year, here are my baseline bloods:
05/04/2013 - Baseline
Testosterone = 10.0 nmol/L Range (8.4 - 28.7)
FSH = 22 IU/L Range (1.4 - 18.1)
LH = 5.5 IU/L Range (1.5 - 9.3)
Cortisol = 339 nmol/L Range (140 - 690)
SHBG = 33.7 nmol/L Range (17.3 - 65.8)
TSH = 2.2 mu/L Range (0.35 - 5.0)
Prolactin = 185 miu/L Range (45-375)
Vitamin D = 71 nmol/L Range (75-200)
Albumin = 48 g/L Range (35-50)
Calculated Free Testosterone = 0.183 nmol/L Range (0.167 - 0.588)
- As the first Endo I had seen had diagnosed me as primary, I just wanted to confim for my own sanity that Clomid wouldn't make my balls do anything. So I took 50mg Clomid ED for 3 months, here are the results:
17/06/2013 - 50mg Clomid ED - 3 Months
FSH = 55.9 IU/L Range (1.4 - 18.1)
LH = 29.0 IU/L Range (1.5 - 9.3)
Oestradiol = 213 pmol/L Range (<146)
Testosterone = 23.8 nmol/L Range (8.4 - 28.7)
As you can see my FSH and LH sky rocketed as did my T. But I felt crap and I'm pretty sure that was caused by me Oestradiol (E2) levels
- Went back to the Urologist and we decided to cut down the dose of Clomid but also add in Arimidex at 1mg a day to see if that would help my E2. Here are the results after 3 months:
30/09/2013 - 12.5mg Clomid ED + 1mg Arimidex ED - 3 Months
FSH = 39.6 IU/L Range (1.4 - 18.1)
LH = 21.3 IU/L Range (1.5 - 9.3)
Oestradiol = 184 pmol/L Range ( < 146)
Testosterone = 20.0 nmol/L range (8.4 - 28.7)
I have to say, that I felt pretty good at that dose, I was emotionally solid, confident, happy but had little to no sex drive or libido.
I have also had semen analysis done at each blood test. Generally, we've seen a big jump in the quality of the sperm, but the concentration has currently only risen from ~0.4million per ml to ~1million per ml. Quite a long way to go. However, fortunately, the better quality sperm helped us with an ICSI round and we're due to have our first baby in Feb 2014
So, the question is, what do I do now. I feel pretty crappy right now, but that's because I've been taking the clomid without the Arimidex, so I've added it back in. I've read on various other posts that I may be suffering from high ITT aromatisation which the Arimidex may not help with.
I was wondering if anyone could offer some suggestions, my current thoughts are:
1 - Carry on at 12.5mg Clomid ED + 1mg Arimidex - When I try and take either dose down, I start to feel really depressed and anxious. I just have no sex drive, not interested in sex, no morning wood, just not bothered about it.
2 - Switch to Tamoxifen (at what dose?) Do I also take Arimidex with that?
3 - I could try HCG injections
4 - TRT
5 - Anything else I can do to get my E2 levels lower?!
6 - Try a restart?
Help!! I really feel like I have found the answer to why I've felt depressed and Anxious all of my adult life, I just don't seem to be able to find a way to get the hormone levels under control to live with it.
I've been all over the place this week emotionally, really anxious, depressed, even crying at one point. I've stopped taking the Citalopram as I took 10mg for 3 days in a row and my anxiety/depression got worse and I also felt sick and started sweating profusely. Basically, getting all of the side effects of an SSRI and none of the benefits.
So have a couple of questions
1 - Based on all of the information, am I definitely primary? Or do we think there is a possibility that I could reboot my system and get it going?
2 - Are there any other things that I can take to increase my dopamine levels?
I'm not going to be able to get any Nolvadex until the new year, so I'll stick with Clomid for the time being. Also, with Nolvadex, how long can you take it for? I know that they're now supporting long term use of clomid, but I think Nolvadex tops out at 5 years with the risk of causing cancer?
