- LH: 6.52 mIU/mL [1.7 - 8.6];
- FSH: 5.39 mIU/mL [1.5 - 12.4];
Doesn’t seem high…
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
- FSH: 5.39 mIU/mL [1.5 - 12.4];
Doesn’t seem high…
HUGE McBIGLARGE
Member
Don’t pay attention to the reference range. It accounts for old fogies who have testicular dysfunction.
you want to see LH and FSH on the low side so you know your balls are gobbling that up, and your HPG axis doesn’t want more T. Same thing with TSH and your thyroxine levels.
I would find a source but I can’t remember where I read it.
Fact is, his free T is on the low side, and his LH and FSH is on the high side. I’d point the finger at him needing more T. Then again, I’m not qualified to be saying anything at all.
Don’t forget that estradiol is far more suppressive of LH and FSH than T is, and although SHBG binds to T more than E, it still binds to E. So his free E is probably going to be on the low side.
but I dunno man. Just chucking ideas out there
Ye
Sure thing, all the ideeas are welcomed, and nothing is off limits, because I’m learning, and I need to find a way out of this hell I’ve been living in. So I guess any crazy ideea worth the time. I will try and find some studies on what you were saying here about diferent hormones. Tbh I didn’t even knew that there is free E2. Here in my country I can only test E2 and was in my case Estradiol: 26.6 pg/mL [11.3 - 43.2] (you can see all the levels on the beginning of the thread). TSH and thyroxine were mid lvl also I think.
I also have really low sperm volume, I forgot to mention that and idk why this could happen in correlation with my hormon levels or other possible issues
HUGE McBIGLARGE
Member
Maybe I’m right then. Maybe your balls are atrophied and not responding adequately to gonadotropins.
Your symptoms are in line with poor androgenic activity, and imo I’d lean into thinking it’s some degree of primary hypogonadism based on high LH, high FSH, and low sperm count.
If I was in your position, I would do the following in this order:
- good sleep hygiene
- 3.5 hours of cardio a week
- resistance training at least twice a week
- eat clean (lots of fruit, lots of vegetables, nuts, seeds, legumes etc. All are protective against low T symptoms)
- take a multivitamin. Include 4000iu of vitamin D, 400iu of vitamin e. D and E help low T symptoms
- rule out other causes such as psychological disturbances, sleep apnea, hba1c, thyroid issues, liver issues, kidney issues, full blood count issues, blood pressure
- do pelvic floor exercises to help ED and ejaculation
- take 5-20mg tadalafil a day to help ED (also protects against future ED)
If, after you have done the above, you still have low T symptoms, the docs don’t help you, and you’re unsure of what to do next, you may want to consider pharmacological intervention, such as:
- testosterone
- DHT derivatives
- HCG
- doxazosin (can help ED)
- aromatase inhibitors
- pt141
- caber or pramipexole
I found that, despite having normal T, I needed supraphysiological T to alleviate my symptoms. I suspect I have poor androgen sensitivity. It took DHT levels 16x the upper reference range for me to start getting torso hairs, and even now I don’t have many. Sparse armpit hair. Poor beard growth. If I drop my T levels to 1500ng/dl I become asexual.
Other than hypertension which I’ve had since before I started testosterone, I’ve had no side effects from any of the androgens I’ve taken. No MPB, no acne, no gyno, no elevated FBC (it’s actually lower now than pre-T). Cholesterol is better than ever. If I had normal androgen sensitivity I’d be getting side effects (and also be swole), but instead I’m taking high doses of drugs no one should touch just for me to have better biomarkers than ever before.
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Jin23
Well-known Member
With TT levels of 700 ng/dl and LH of 5 - 6, he is not hypogonadal in any shape or form and low sperm count has little to do with leydig cell function.
Torso hairs is a poor measure of systemic DHT-R expression - which differs tissue to tissue and besides, you can't use that as an objective measure of androgenic activity as there are to many other genetic variables which determine the growth of body hair.
It's easy to get caught up in some biomarker lab values, upon which you start determining your well being. And treating one condition with a certain drug doesn't necessarily mean you have a deficit of that compound. If some depressed person takes MDMA and becomes happy for 12h, does that mean he has a deficiency of mdma? The body and the mind are a lot more complex then simple serum levels of sex hormones. Can they be used as short term antidepressants? Sure, but that doesn't mean you are deficient in that regard (unless you actually are) and using aas to treat depression usually ends up with more depression and a changed brain morphology with prolonged use.
You are however correct in noting the variable expression of AR's. They will however desensitize with time after prolonged stimulation and yes, then your scenario of becoming asexual below 1500 can become a reality. However I'd still note that there are a lot, A LOT more factor's at play then just AR expression.
OP has high-ish shbg (the reason for low androgen signaling) and some sort of "depression". He isn't hypogonadal though.
What I currently do:
- working out 5-6 days strength and cardio 3 times/week;
- vit D 5000 ui for months now, also vit E, A, zinc, selenium;
- eating healthy, atm cutting and my abs starting to show up pretty nicely which I like lol;
- pelvic floor stretching daily and biofeedback with a therapist monthly (5 months in), sadly with no effect for my urinary and prostate issues;
- taking alpha blockers with some relief, but not really satisfied, probably will switch to 5 mg tadalaf (will improve some erection, but no effect on libido or general wellbeing, I have done this in the past);
- still some tests to do for this issue, but i don’t hope much tbh;
- and for the rest, the only thing I won’t risk is to go supraphysiological. That’s the only thing I won’t even consider. The one thing that I did consider tho, beside TRT or HCG, are those Parkinson’s drugs that I have yet to propose to my doctor and see if he finds it as something we can do.
I am a hairy guy, my body has hair. My head started loosing it when this problems started tho, and started prematurely getting grey also lol.
HUGE McBIGLARGE
Member
OP does not have “clinical hypogonadism”, but his free T is borderline low, he has hypogonadism symptoms, he has a low sperm count, he responds well to HCG, and if I’m recalling the study right, his LH and FSH are above the mean and median, despite being in range. Does that mean he will definitely benefit from more T? No. But he might. I’m just giving OP some ideas; not a diagnosis or a prescription. We don’t know OPs androgen sensitivity, and androgen sensitivity has more intervariability between individuals than circulating androgens. So for all we know his borderline low free T is struggling to stimulate his fussy receptors.
I never said that because I have poor body hair growth I must objectively have poor androgen sensitivity. But it does support the hypothesis.
Got a source that ARs downregulate in response to androgens? Because I thought that was a myth
HUGE McBIGLARGE
Member
If you’re concerned about being supraphysiological, you could try a DHT derivative with weak anabolic effects. Topical testosterone is routinely prescribed for men and trans men to bring T to normal ranges, but it raises DHT 8x more than it raises T, and it’s considered as safe as injectable T despite DHT being insanely above range.
Ofc, with your free T so low, you’ve got a long way to go before you’d have supraphysiological T.
You could try boron supplementation. I think that’s meant to affect the AR or SHBG.
Also consider carnitine. That’s meant to affect AR sensitivity.
If you consider Parkinson’s meds, consider pramipexole before caber. Pramipexole has a shorter half life than caber, but it’s safer due to it being limited to just dopamine agonism as opposed to the long list of pharmacological effects of cabergoline.
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