Need help interpreting blood tests

[Deezznutzz]

again for once we agree

bf?
you never needed an ai
diet?

if you think you need an anti e on TRT you need to look at the big picture and ask why? using an AI trying to make these little numbers perfect when your lifestyle probably isn't healthy is what they call majoring in the minors

Incorrect. Older guys may convert testosterone to estrogen at a higher rate. Lots of lean fit people are high converters. Age has a lot to do with it. Trt guys who are low T naturally. Some people need an ai with trt to keep estrogen in range. In range is best for health. Too low bad. Too high bad. In range good. Arimidex is safe the prescribe it to children up to 7mg a week. True fat people are high converters but also a skinny person can be as well. Arimidex only causes issues if your estrogen gets in single digits. You'd have to be stupid to do that. Do people not do bloods before and after anymore?

 

[Rido]

again for once we agree

bf?
you never needed an ai
diet?

if you think you need an anti e on TRT you need to look at the big picture and ask why? using an AI trying to make these little numbers perfect when your lifestyle probably isn't healthy is what they call majoring in the minors

I can understand if people are blasting 800mg of test, shit even 400mg of test sometimes...


I think this is in OPs head.

 

[Rido]

Incorrect. Older guys may convert testosterone to estrogen at a higher rate. Lots of lean fit people are high converters. Age has a lot to do with it. Trt guys who are low T naturally. Some people need an ai with trt to keep estrogen in range. In range is best for health. Too low bad. Too high bad. In range good. Arimidex is safe the prescribe it to children up to 7mg a week. True fat people are high converters but also a skinny person can be as well. Arimidex only causes issues if your estrogen gets in single digits. You'd have to be stupid to do that. Do people not do bloods before and after anymore?

I guess I am assuming OP is using an AI because he sounds paranoid. I can make my nipple feel sensitive mentally at 200mg of test a week. Same thing at 600mg.


I guess if they have a history of Gyno, then its a little different.

 

[T&H]

again for once we agree

bf?
you never needed an ai
diet?

if you think you need an anti e on TRT you need to look at the big picture and ask why? using an AI trying to make these little numbers perfect when your lifestyle probably isn't healthy is what they call majoring in the minors

Just shut TF up. You continue to provide horseshit on this forum in most of your posts.

 

[Rido]

Incorrect. Older guys may convert testosterone to estrogen at a higher rate. Lots of lean fit people are high converters. Age has a lot to do with it. Trt guys who are low T naturally. Some people need an ai with trt to keep estrogen in range. In range is best for health. Too low bad. Too high bad. In range good. Arimidex is safe the prescribe it to children up to 7mg a week. True fat people are high converters but also a skinny person can be as well. Arimidex only causes issues if your estrogen gets in single digits. You'd have to be stupid to do that. Do people not do bloods before and after anymore?

I am on some of the TRT groups. while I am not trying to bash anyone. what I have just seen on posts, that alot of the high converters are 25%+ bodyfat and may need to drop some weight. I do not have any studies to support this, just what I have noticed

too many of them start TRT at too high of a range.

I wasnt too aware of the higher conversion for age, but I do know they are more prone to Androgen induced erythrocytosis.

for TRT I am more of a minimalist for long term therapy. That is why I went to the Test U route and if I needed an AI, then I would drop the dose.


Maybe @malfeasance may be able to weigh on in on some of the older guys with a higher estrogen conversion.

 

[Deezznutzz]

I am on some of the TRT groups. while I am not trying to bash anyone. what I have just seen on posts, that alot of the high converters are 25%+ bodyfat and may need to drop some weight. I do not have any studies to support this, just what I have noticed

too many of them start TRT at too high of a range.

I wasnt too aware of the higher conversion for age, but I do know they are more prone to Androgen induced erythrocytosis.

for TRT I am more of a minimalist for long term therapy. That is why I went to the Test U route and if I needed an AI, then I would drop the dose.


Maybe @malfeasance may be able to weigh on in on some of the older guys with a higher estrogen conversion.

I agree most all overweight people are high converters but there are skinny High converters as well... it may be a small percentage but I've come across quite a few of them.

 

[malfeasance]

Maybe @malfeasance may be able to weigh on in on some of the older guys with a higher estrogen conversion.

I am not aware of it, which is not the same thing as saying it is not true. It does not appear to be the case for me (mid 50s) yet.

 

[Deezznutzz]

High estrogen in men after injectable testosterone therapy: the low T experience - PubMed

Testosterone replacement improves quality of life and is aromatized in men in adipose tissues to estrogen. Hyperestrogenism is believed to be harmful to male sexuality. This is a description of our experience of screening 34,016 men in the Low T Centers, of which approximately 50% were converted...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This is interesting but we already knew low estrogen causes low libido. On a blast I keep mine around 35-40 and my libido is great. I can feel if it goes lower and I don't want sex so I just skip one arimidex dose.Everything goes back to normal. Usually happens once on blast around 10-12 weeks. My estrogen would be 200 on blast without arimidex and I would be a bloated round face mess. Haha

 

[malfeasance]

High estrogen in men after injectable testosterone therapy: the low T experience - PubMed

Testosterone replacement improves quality of life and is aromatized in men in adipose tissues to estrogen. Hyperestrogenism is believed to be harmful to male sexuality. This is a description of our experience of screening 34,016 men in the Low T Centers, of which approximately 50% were converted...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

From the full text version:

"A physiological change also occurs with aging, as the body exchanges lean body mass for fat. This has a direct influence on drug pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics. For example, with aging the higher fat content can influence fat soluble drugs by increasing their half lives and hence their duration of action. Our hypothesis is that age is directly correlated to E2 conversion as a result of accumulating body fat with time, and we sought a population-based database to answer those questions."

In other words, "old = fat."

 

[Deezznutzz]

From the full text version:

"A physiological change also occurs with aging, as the body exchanges lean body mass for fat. This has a direct influence on drug pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics. For example, with aging the higher fat content can influence fat soluble drugs by increasing their half lives and hence their duration of action. Our hypothesis is that age is directly correlated to E2 conversion as a result of accumulating body fat with time, and we sought a population-based database to answer those questions."

In other words, "old = fat."

All I'm saying is not all hight converters are fat. Some lean folks still use AI too.

 

[Rido]

All I'm saying is not all hight converters are fat. Some lean folks still use AI too.

Yea. We don't disagree. Just a discussion to further educate all of ourselves

 

[hudson98]

Yea. We don't disagree. Just a discussion to further educate all of ourselves

I agree with both for the mot part, most guy with estrogen problems eat shit and are fat. There can be exceptions of course. But in general what im seeing on this forum the guys dumping AI in their body

1. Don't need them
2. Are fat
3. Are taking their e2

There are lean guys yes, its the fat ones that I shake my head "no shit your hormones are out of whack your fat" LOL. They are trying to dial in their E2 for health purposes but accepting being fat which is a true health risk.

 

[lovedajuice]

I guess I am assuming OP is using an AI because he sounds paranoid. I can make my nipple feel sensitive mentally at 200mg of test a week. Same thing at 600mg.


I guess if they have a history of Gyno, then its a little different.

LOL no not paranoid, when the incident with tbol happened I wasn't taking any AI, but then that happened and I got the E2 evels checked and indeed it was above 200, even though with the same levels before the incident I wasn't feeling anything weird, anyway I dropped the dosage to 200mg test again and it's been almost two weeks I don't take arimidex now and no weird feeling to my nipples so far, today I have to inject test again so I will see what happens in the next days, I think the sensation in my nipples was partially in my head though, I don't deny. I will probably lower my test dosage further until I get to 160mg, but considering on 200mg test my free test levels are over double the baseline levels it's not surprising the E2 levels would also be in that range.

 

[Rido]

LOL no not paranoid, when the incident with tbol happened I wasn't taking any AI, but then that happened and I got the E2 evels checked and indeed it was above 200, even though with the same levels before the incident I wasn't feeling anything weird, anyway I dropped the dosage to 200mg test again and it's been almost two weeks I don't take arimidex now and no weird feeling to my nipples so far, today I have to inject test again so I will see what happens in the next days, I think the sensation in my nipples was partially in my head though, I don't deny. I will probably lower my test dosage further until I get to 160mg, but considering on 200mg test my free test levels are over double the baseline levels it's not surprising the E2 levels would also be in that range.

I haven't ran tbol but you shouldn't be aromatizing on that right?


I thought tbol doesn't raise e2


I thought the main aromatizing oral was dbol(I guess oral test does too)

 

[lovedajuice]

I haven't ran tbol but you shouldn't be aromatizing on that right?


I thought tbol doesn't raise e2


I thought the main aromatizing oral was dbol(I guess oral test does too)

Yes you are right and I'm not sure what happened there, it might be that I don't tolerate it, an IFBB coach that I know told me that it didn't really look like gyno symptoms and that tbol is not exactly a beginner steroid either (it was my first cycle), I don't have any of those symptoms when I take anavar or masteron.

 

[Rido]

Yes you are right and I'm not sure what happened there, it might be that I don't tolerate it, an IFBB coach that I know told me that it didn't really look like gyno symptoms and that tbol is not exactly a beginner steroid either (it was my first cycle), I don't have any of those symptoms when I take anavar or masteron.

Do you think that you could have gotten dbol?

 

[lovedajuice]

Do you think that you could have gotten dbol?

I don't think so, the lab is a local trusted one that has has real primo, masteron and anavar too, if they didn't scam me and other people I know with those expensive compounds why would they scam me for something cheap like tbol.

 

[Rido]

I don't think so, the lab is a local trusted one that has has real primo, masteron and anavar too, if they didn't scam me and other people I know with those expensive compounds why would they scam me for something cheap like tbol.

Then may God have mercy on your soul. I feel like if all of this is true, you are borderline shit out of luck

 

[bigrobbie]

Ok, so I started TRT about a year ago 200mg pw test c split in two injections, after a month or two on it I added arimidex cause E2 was too high,
then noticed I crushed E2 and reduced dosage to 0.25mg twice weekly, then E2 still crashed and reduced to to 0.25mg once weekly and still kinda crashed but if I don't take it for longer my nipples start to feel weird so I'm gonna switch to aromasin so I will avoid E2 rebound and take it even less frequently.
Now the blood test comparison between november last year after a few months on test c 200mg pw and now after increasing test dose to 250pw for almost 6 months.

Nov 2021
total test 1806 ng/dl
SHBG 64.3 nmol/L
free t index 97.4%
E2 5 pg/ml
total cholesterol 132 mg/dl
HDL 33.6 mg/dl
LDL 88.9 mg/dl
HDLC ratio 3.93
triglycerides 49.5 mg/dl

Now
total test 2141.9 ng/dl
SHBG 24.4 nmol/l
free t index 304%
E2 6.15 pg/ml
total cholesterol 212.2 mg/dl
HDL 42.5 mg/dl
LDL 155 mg/dl
HDLC ration 4.99
triglycerides 74.34 mg/dl

As you can see my lipid profile is being negatively affected now and I'm at higher risk of cardiac events with the current levels, I'm trying to understand what is causing it, is it the arimidex, is it too high testosterone, is it the duration of the TRT or simply changes to diet, supplements, lifestyle?
Also what is causing SHBG levels to be lower and what are the optimal levels for it?
What could I do to improve my lipid profile?

For your estrogen issues. I use mast enanthate and it help keep aromatase in check pretty well... however I know that's not your primary question here...just a tid bit

 

[lovedajuice]

For your estrogen issues. I use mast enanthate and it help keep aromatase in check pretty well... however I know that's not your primary question here...just a tid bit

Thanks, this is a cruise however, I lowered my test to 150mg per week and everything is going back to normal, I'm still trying to dial in E2 that is a bit too high at the moment but I'm almost there