3rd Cycle - Based on my goals should I go Natty or AAS route? w/ Pics

[NT0328]

Hey Guys -

Sorry for the long thread but I need some opinion and advice from WKM and Vets... I am trying to decide if I should stop AAS and just try to gain naturally at this point forward. I'm not trying to get to hulk status and neither am I planning to compete at any BB events (although it had crossed my mind and I may change my mind again in the future if I manage to get to a certain physique) Here's my stats:

I'm 35 yrs old
Height: 5' 6"
Weight: ~155 - 160lbs
BF%: 8 - 9% BF
Current LBM: 142.19lbs




Personal Goal:
BF%: 4-5%
LBM: 160lbs
Weight: TBD

A bit of history on my cycle experience:

Cycle #1: Test E / Tren A / Anavar / Winny
Cycle Length: 12 Weeks
Age 34
Starting Weight: 185lbs
Starting BF%: 28% According to scale w/ BF% Calculator
Ending Weight: 160lbs
Ending BF%: 15% According to scale w/ BF% Calculator
Did PCT w/ Dr Scally and recovered back to normal levels.

Cycle #2: Test P / Tren A / Anavar / Winny
Age 35
Starting Weight: 165lbs
Starting BF%: 18% According to scale w/ BF% Calculator
Ending Weight: 160lbs
Ending BF%: 13% According to scale w/ BF% Calculator
2nd Cycle ended recently on 3/31 - I am not on PCT atm but am cruising at TRT levels. The reason why I have opted to do this is because my base Test levels was already low: 421. The plan was to cruise for a short while and go back on cycle for a 3rd time. As of right now I am pinning Test E at 200/mg per week.

Drawing bloods tomorrow to get an idea of where all my values are at...

For my 3rd Cycle I was planning the following:
Week 1 - 8: Test P @ 250mg Per Week / Tren A 600 mg Per Week / NPP 500 mg Per Week Planning to Pin ED
Week 9 - 16: Test P @ 500 mg Per Week / Anavar 420 mg Per Week / Winny 420 mg Per Week
Adex .5mg E2D and increase based on E2 levels
HCG 500iu E3D

PCT:
HCG 1,000 iu E3D x 10
@ Last Week of Serms
Clomid 50 mg 2x per day - Duration 45 days
Nolva 20 mg 2x per day - Duration 45 days

Here is where I would like people's thoughts and opinion. After this 3rd cycle if I do decide to move forward it will be my last - I know and am aware that once you stop it's highly likely that you will lose a majority of your gains... But this is dependent on one's personal peak limit prior to AAS and very dependent on lifestyle afterwards... (At least this is what I am reading and interpreting...) So I'm hopeful that I won't lose it all...

Now the question that I have been pondering is whether or not to enter into my 3rd cycle as planned or should I just do PCT now and stop AAS and try to hit my goals naturally. I'm a bit confused on the reality of my goal - is 160lbs LBM achievable for my current age and if it's within realm of my natural peak? The only reason why a 3rd cycle is appealing is because it would shorten the timeframe to reach that goal vs doing it naturally it may take 1-2yrs? The whole intention is to try and keep as much gains as possible...

Does anyone have experience with calculating or figuring out what one's natural limit is? Could I take average weight prior to AAS as a baseline benchmark? I.e if my body weight was naturally at 180lbs but an lbm of only 130lbs and my new weight 170lbs but 160lbs lbm is this within reason of natural limit?

Also can I get some critique/opinion on the planned cycle?

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[Dw725]

I'll help with what I can, the rest other will probably fill in. You're not doing bad. I'd expect maybe a little more being that you've ran tren for two decent cycles but idk for sure how u eat or train. You could prob adjust those two aspects and take it where u are trying to go with or without gear. I'd say that choice is yours. Good luck.

 

[Eman]

Three things from me:

1. If you're unsure if you should or even want to be to using AAS, don't.

2. 421 ng/DL isn't very low and it doesn't warrant TRT. Also, 200 mg sounds quite high to me as a TRT dose.

3. If you're planning to do one more cycle and quit anyways, I don't understand the point of this thread.

 

[NT0328]

Training:
AM workout 5-6x per week 1 hour per session. Alternating between slow cardio and HIIT cardio

PM workout 6x per week, 75-90min per session. 1 muscle group per day - my training regiment is a bit diff than most imo. For a specific Excercise I usually do 5 sets x 12-15 reps @ weight is 60-70% of my 1 max rep, after the set is completed I would then do an additional 5 sets but increase weight until I hit a 3-4 rep max weight. Rest time for the first intial 5 sets is usually 40 secs since I train EMOM. 2nd 5 sets rest time is a bit longer usually 90 seconds.

Not counting calorie atm but my macro breakdown that I try to stick to is:
250g of protein
50g of fat
50g of carbs

Min of 1 gallon of water per day. Every 3-4 days I would carb load.

Hope that helps in providing advice.

 

[Dw725]

Training:
AM workout 5-6x per week 1 hour per session. Alternating between slow cardio and HIIT cardio

PM workout 6x per week, 75-90min per session. 1 muscle group per day - my training regiment is a bit diff than most imo. For a specific Excercise I usually do 5 sets x 12-15 reps @ weight is 60-70% of my 1 max rep, after the set is completed I would then do an additional 5 sets but increase weight until I hit a 3-4 rep max weight. Rest time for the first intial 5 sets is usually 40 secs since I train EMOM. 2nd 5 sets rest time is a bit longer usually 90 seconds.

Not counting calorie atm but my macro breakdown that I try to stick to is:
250g of protein
50g of fat
50g of carbs

Min of 1 gallon of water per day. Every 3-4 days I would carb load.

Hope that helps in providing advice.

I'm no diet expert but I'm not really sure why u want to drop down to such a low bodyfat %? You can probably make it that low but it's going to be very hard and probably uncomfortable to maintain? U said yourself u don't plan to compete and 4-5 % is in competition range. I don't really know anyone that maintains that longer than just peak week and stage time.

 

[NT0328]

1. If you're unsure if you should or even want to be to using AAS, don't.

Fair enough - let me rephrase my initial question - considering my goal - would it make sense to cycle a 3rd time or try to achieve it naturally?

2. 421 ng/DL isn't very low and it doesn't warrant TRT. Also, 200 mg sounds quite high to me as a TRT dose.

0 - 1000 is the range here right? So I'm at 40% of what my natural TT level should be, if 40% is not considered low what would be? 20%? 30% not arguing here just trying to learn. As for running at 200mg I don't know any better just seems that this is a magic # that most ppl seem to be on... Admittedly I don't know any better...

3. If you're planning to do one more cycle and quit anyways, I don't understand the point of this thread.

. That is if I do a 3rd cycle... Which is the advice I'm seeking... I'm just trying to get a realistic view of what can be kept after the fact - I am struggling to understand and figure out what is ones natural peak/limit - isn't this one of the benefits of AAS? That it can help a person achieve their natural limit faster than what they could achieve naturally? Based on my research and what I've been learning any gains above and beyond your body's natural limit on AAS is what you lose right?

 

[Eman]

Fair enough - let me rephrase my initial question - considering my goal - would it make sense to cycle a 3rd time or try to achieve it naturally?

Only you can answer this IMO.

0 - 1000 is the range here right? So I'm at 40% of what my natural TT level should be, if 40% is not considered low what would be? 20%? 30% not arguing here just trying to learn. As for running at 200mg I don't know any better just seems that this is a magic # that most ppl seem to be on... Admittedly I don't know any better.

250-1000 is approximately the reference range. You are at 421, you're completely within normal range - at least for now, keep cruising and you probably won't be.

Also, do you have any symptoms of low T that warrants treatment? I'm a proponent of AAS use to be honest, but call it what it is - you're basically blasting and cruising not treating low test levels. 200 mg isn't crazy high but it's definitely on the high side, what are your blood levels? 100 mg is probably closer to a TRT dose.

That is if I do a 3rd cycle... Which is the advice I'm seeking... I'm just trying to get a realistic view of what can be kept after the fact - I am struggling to understand and figure out what is ones natural peak/limit - isn't this one of the benefits of AAS? That it can help a person achieve their natural limit faster than what they could achieve naturally? Based on my research and what I've been learning any gains above and beyond your body's natural limit on AAS is what you lose right?

My suggestion to you is to stop AAS and go natural until you have reached your natural limit. It's the ONLY way to know what your peak is. Once you've reached it, then consider doing another cycle. Your pictures look good honestly, you've put in good work. I have no idea how much you'll keep after you go off but probably not a ton if you keep eating well and training hard.

 

[NT0328]

I'm no diet expert but I'm not really sure why u want to drop down to such a low bodyfat %? You can probably make it that low but it's going to be very hard and probably uncomfortable to maintain? U said yourself u don't plan to compete and 4-5 % is in competition range. I don't really know anyone that maintains that longer than just peak week and stage time.

Just a personal goal and obsession I suppose... Considering that I've never been this lean before it's the curiosity at this point on how much I could sculpt my body while having a higher amount of LBM. Competing just recently crossed my mind but has never been an initial goal.

I'm also aware that 4-5% isn't sustainable nor healthy but it's an obsessed personal goal to achieve for my age... Guess you can call it a mid life crisis or the fact that I want my 2 kids to reflect back when they grow up that their Dad was at a fitness level physique that the majority of society fails to achieve at.

 

[Eman]

Personal Goal:
BF%: 4-5%

Also, holy shit.. I just caught this. Have you ever been close to this low of bodyfat? Anyone I know that has says this level of bodyfat is horrible. I know individuals at 7% that got the flu and nearly died because being so low in bodyfat.

 

[NT0328]

Also, holy shit.. I just caught this. Have you ever been close to this low of bodyfat? Anyone I know that has says this level of bodyfat is horrible. I know individuals at 7% that got the flu and nearly died because being so low in bodyfat.

No - I've never been this low, in fact this is the first time i've ever hit below 10%. I wasn't aware that low body fat = higher susceptibility to illness.

250-1000 is approximately the reference range. You are at 421, you're completely within normal range - at least for now, keep cruising and you probably won't be.

Also, do you have any symptoms of low T that warrants treatment? I'm a proponent of AAS use to be honest, but call it what it is - you're basically blasting and cruising not treating low test levels. 200 mg isn't crazy high but it's definitely on the high side, what are your blood levels? 100 mg is probably closer to a TRT dose.

Not sure what my blood level are atm - but I will know in 2-3 days just drew bloods this AM so will post up and share...

As for cruising - yes, I am doing exactly that while using "low TT" as an excuse - like i mentioned previously the only reason why I decided to cruise was the fact that I wanted to go on cycle for a 3rd time in a relatively short amount of time from previous vs going through full pct and waiting 4-6 months. Figured it would be less stress on my body going the cruising route until I learned that cruise time should also be time on = time off so it's not as if I'm really saving any time here before being able to restart again... <== is my understanding correct here?

 

[Eman]

No - I've never been this low, in fact this is the first time i've ever hit below 10%. I wasn't aware that low body fat = higher susceptibility to illness

I think it's just more difficult to fight off an illness, not necessarily get sick easier.

Figured it would be less stress on my body going the cruising route until I learned that cruise time should also be time on = time off so it's not as if I'm really saving any time here before being able to restart again...

Cruising has you shut down just the same as being on cycle, yes. If you're planning on coming off after another cycle, I don't think it wise to keep cruising. It's going to make recovery more difficult.

 

[NT0328]

Cruising has you shut down just the same as being on cycle, yes. If you're planning on coming off after another cycle, I don't think it wise to keep cruising. It's going to make recovery more difficult.

Noted - Thanks for sharing your opinion.

Anyone else have anything else to add or have any thoughts? In re to the actual 3rd cycle is it a sound cycle plan?