5 weeks into pct after few years of B&C, still low test.

[Kimpe]

A little background:
So I was blasting and cruising for few years and had lowish testosterone before that (at the bottom range).
After years of injections I wanted to see if I could recover. Also because I thought my low T levels might have been caused by CNS fatigue from training way too much and by minoxidil, which I thought shouldn't affect hormones but then I saw a study claiming it actually can impact testosterone. I had high testosterone measured when I was 21, then again I'm 29 now so that could have an effect.

Anyways, I did HCG at 250IU 2x week for 10 last weeks of cruising then hopped on 25mg clomid daily.
Now I've been on clomid for about 5 weeks and got bloods. They are on different units than you guys have in the US but I'll put the ranges there too to make it clearer.

-Testosterone: 7.3nmol/l (8-29)
-Free Testosterone: 112pmol/l (155-800)
-SHBG: 35nmol/l (15-95)
-Estrogen: <0.04nmol/l (<0.15)

I know I should have gotten LH too but I forgot.

Shouldn't my levels have come a lot higher if the clomid was going to work? Last time I did clomid, it was 25mg EOD and it gave me double the levels I'm having now.
I mean, I think 5 weeks is plenty for clomid to start doing even something.

Some people have told me I should just wait but I don't know.. Maybe my prior low T levels weren't because of overtraining and minoxidil, maybe I just do have actual shitty natural T and need to be on TRT.

What do you guys think? I'm going to see a Dr next week but should I just wait instead and probably just end up on TRT anyways?

 

[Iron Frenchie]

Why not use nolva? In a standard PCT with nolva and clomid, the nolva does the heavy lifting and is better for recovery purposes.

 

[Evom1]

I feel like b&c for that long followed by the most mild pct I've ever seen is not going to yield a good recovery

 

[socalmk6gti]

I feel like you're going to need more time for things to recover, but that's just me.

 

[bigdeadweight]

Doesn't seem the best thought out PCT, I would personally have done Power PCT protocol. But after years of blast and cruise be prepared for many months, not a couple of weeks of recovery.

 

[Kimpe]

Why not use nolva? In a standard PCT with nolva and clomid, the nolva does the heavy lifting and is better for recovery purposes.

Good question. probably a stupid move to not take it.
I left it out because finding out it's listed as a known carcinogen, but I doubt it does any harm in a short time use and probably I was just being a pussy.

I feel like b&c for that long followed by the most mild pct I've ever seen is not going to yield a good recovery

Good point. I've read on several places that 25mg clomid should be enough. Last time I used clomid it was just 25mg EOD and it gave me double the levels I have now. But a higher dose and nolva added would indeed be most likely better

I feel like you're going to need more time for things to recover, but that's just me.

Most likely true.

Doesn't seem the best thought out PCT, I would personally have done Power PCT protocol. But after years of blast and cruise be prepared for many months, not a couple of weeks of recovery.

True, I definitely might need a higher dose, and add nolva to the mix.


So do you guys think I should cancel my Dr's appointment and continue with improved pct (clomid AND nolva)?
The thing that concerns me is that maybe my prior natty T levels just were the ones I'm stuck with and there is nothing to be recovered to. That no matter how long I wait it would be useless.

 

[Kimpe]

Well the doc wanted to check my thyroid levels to make sure thyroid isn't part of the problem. Thyroid levels were fine.
Ordered nolva and some more clomid.

Pretty sure I'll just need TRT tho, since my test levels weren't that much higher before hopping on, so I really doubt they will rise from here.

 

[The Terminator]

How low exactly was it before you ever touched roids? Were you doing anything else that was unhealthy or an unhealthy condition at the time that could have lowered your T like bad diet, drinking, smoking, opioids or any drug, overweight, sedentary, depression, anxiety/stress, poor sleep, sleep apnea, relationship issues or anything else? If so I think it could be potentially possible, but only with time and healthy can will you know.

Pct isn’t gonna make a whole lot of difference in the long run unless you wanna hold on to your gainz between cycles, and possibly help if you run a lot of cycles. If you were to never touch aas again it’s not like the lack of a strong pct is gonna be the difference between good and bad hormone levels a couple years from now. I’m not discouraging pct, what I’m saying is if your hpga is too damaged pct isn’t gonna fix it, sure if the problem is upstream from the gonads then it’ll restore things initially but after a few months you’ll be back to where you started.

With all that said I’d still give pct a try, specifically the power pct. 10 weeks of hCG at 500iu per week during the final 10 weeks after 5 years of suppression likely wasn’t enough. You probably needed a higher dose to get a response from your testicles after years of atrophy. Who knows if you live healthy and happy you may end up in better shape. The mental side is quite important, it may not increase hormones to astronomical levels on its own but believe me it will help make better use of what you have.

I too am considering coming off trt to give recovery a shot. My last T level the day I got my 1st shot was 130ng, but I was also taking suboxone, which may not decrease T like standard opioids but I believe it still has an affect, plus I was sedentary at the time.

That was a longer post than I intended but hopefully helpful.

 

[T-Bagger]

A little background:
So I was blasting and cruising for few years and had lowish testosterone before that (at the bottom range).
After years of injections I wanted to see if I could recover. Also because I thought my low T levels might have been caused by CNS fatigue from training way too much and by minoxidil, which I thought shouldn't affect hormones but then I saw a study claiming it actually can impact testosterone. I had high testosterone measured when I was 21, then again I'm 29 now so that could have an effect.

Anyways, I did HCG at 250IU 2x week for 10 last weeks of cruising then hopped on 25mg clomid daily.
Now I've been on clomid for about 5 weeks and got bloods. They are on different units than you guys have in the US but I'll put the ranges there too to make it clearer.

-Testosterone: 7.3nmol/l (8-29)
-Free Testosterone: 112pmol/l (155-800)
-SHBG: 35nmol/l (15-95)
-Estrogen: <0.04nmol/l (<0.15)

I know I should have gotten LH too but I forgot.

Shouldn't my levels have come a lot higher if the clomid was going to work? Last time I did clomid, it was 25mg EOD and it gave me double the levels I'm having now.
I mean, I think 5 weeks is plenty for clomid to start doing even something.

Some people have told me I should just wait but I don't know.. Maybe my prior low T levels weren't because of overtraining and minoxidil, maybe I just do have actual shitty natural T and need to be on TRT.

What do you guys think? I'm going to see a Dr next week but should I just wait instead and probably just end up on TRT anyways?

Can you post the link to that Minoxidil article? @The Terminator and I were discuthis and couldn’t find anything definitive that actually said it lowers or affects testosterone.

 

[Mac11wildcat]

I feel like b&c for that long followed by the most mild pct I've ever seen is not going to yield a good recovery

This. But if you started with low levels what exactly are you expecting?

That is an extremely mild PCT for a B/C protocol.

If you were on for years, you’d need a much more powerful PCT to reboot. I know the protocol exists here. But having not used hcg during your gear use, you’re talking WAY more hcg, clomid and nolva, etc.

 

[Kimpe]

How low exactly was it before you ever touched roids? Were you doing anything else that was unhealthy or an unhealthy condition at the time that could have lowered your T like bad diet, drinking, smoking, opioids or any drug, overweight, sedentary, depression, anxiety/stress, poor sleep, sleep apnea, relationship issues or anything else? If so I think it could be potentially possible, but only with time and healthy can will you know.

Pct isn’t gonna make a whole lot of difference in the long run unless you wanna hold on to your gainz between cycles, and possibly help if you run a lot of cycles. If you were to never touch aas again it’s not like the lack of a strong pct is gonna be the difference between good and bad hormone levels a couple years from now. I’m not discouraging pct, what I’m saying is if your hpga is too damaged pct isn’t gonna fix it, sure if the problem is upstream from the gonads then it’ll restore things initially but after a few months you’ll be back to where you started.

With all that said I’d still give pct a try, specifically the power pct. 10 weeks of hCG at 500iu per week during the final 10 weeks after 5 years of suppression likely wasn’t enough. You probably needed a higher dose to get a response from your testicles after years of atrophy. Who knows if you live healthy and happy you may end up in better shape. The mental side is quite important, it may not increase hormones to astronomical levels on its own but believe me it will help make better use of what you have.

I too am considering coming off trt to give recovery a shot. My last T level the day I got my 1st shot was 130ng, but I was also taking suboxone, which may not decrease T like standard opioids but I believe it still has an affect, plus I was sedentary at the time.

That was a longer post than I intended but hopefully helpful.

My total and free testosterone were just below the bottom range, and I had all kinds of issues (low libido, lethargy, bitchyness, anxiety).
I tried getting TRT but the doctors I saw said that as long as it's within the range Im all good.

My lifestyle has always been pretty healthy so nothing there that could be a reason.

Being on my own "TRT" aka cruising made a world of difference. Shouldn't have come off at all now that I think of it.. well maybe getting legit trt is better than using it on my own.

Oh, and the doctor said since my right testicle has always been a lot smaller it just might not produce testosterone.

Can you post the link to that Minoxidil article? @The Terminator and I were discuthis and couldn’t find anything definitive that actually said it lowers or affects testosterone.

Well ain't that something.. It seems that I remembered it wrong.
Minoxidil may suppress androgen receptor-related functions
It doesn't even say it effects testosterone, so there's one more reason to think I came off for nothing.

This. But if you started with low levels what exactly are you expecting?

That is an extremely mild PCT for a B/C protocol.

If you were on for years, you’d need a much more powerful PCT to reboot. I know the protocol exists here. But having not used hcg during your gear use, you’re talking WAY more hcg, clomid and nolva, etc.

I actually don't know what I was expecting anymore since I've already recovered just a few units under what I used to be.

This shit is starting to effect my work, life and career options. Fuck this, I have a new appointment after 1,5 weeks but I don't know.. I'm starting to feel like the best option would be just hop back on since I'm rrreaaalllly not gonna loose my job and future career options for this.

 

[BirdieNumNum]

Look into low dose long term HCG use.

 

[Kimpe]

Well now I remember why I don't use tamoxifen, it gives me heart palpitations.