Health way worse after stopping TRT - Please advice me

[Gigantic]

Thank you guys! Will try answer one by one here.

- Ostarine was added by recommendation as the suppression was slim to non at best at those dosages, but could help me keep some of the muscle. Was discontinued from the day I got sick, so haven't taken Cardarine or Ostarine for 3 weeks now, should have mentioned that.

- The rest is natural remedies which seems to be a rather common occurance for anyone, example being N2Guard or N2Generate, so sounded like it could help, and this I am still taking.

- I was pending on TRT between 150-200 a week with a few cycles here and there, and I think I have passed a 4-5 year mark on right now at least.

- Nutrition, sleep and training is down the drain right now due to me being sick more or less for 3 weeks, but was great before that. However, I have an extreme amount of stress right now, I don't feel stress (just low), but damn do I have a reason to be haha, so I guess my body know that.

- Today will be the first day in 3 weeks I will try to do some light jogging and stretching. I "repair" extremely slow it seems, even wound healing is slowed down, but blood markers seems great.

- I am supposed to stop PCT altogether in a few days, meaning no Nolva, Clomid, should I continue Clomid regardless as above at 50?

Bro… N2 = Dylan Gemelli evolutionary & anabolex bullshit. It’s lawn clippings… that’s it… this guy is a fraud. Don’t listen to anything he says.

Instead, focus on science-based protocols which you can find here. This is a harm reduction board and we are here to help.

 

[Hayes88]

Oh boy, these Fuckers are still at it?! Some criminal charges should seriously be brought to that place.

Ostarine will shut you down at those dosages. The fact that a 20mg dose is usable for pct is a fairytale brought on by evolutionary.

OP, PCT's and recovery for lengthy cycle's/trt/bc is something completely different then for a 12 week run of the mill aas cycle. You are feeling like crap because you are nowhere near recovered, simple as that. Your research, if you actually did any research for coming off of a lengthy "cycle", is very much lacking. I suggest you do a lot more digging on how to pct and then do the actual pct. It's going to take a long time, a year probably for you to feel normal, that is IF you actually recover to an adequate degree.

Your gonads need to come back alive first (hcg for a month or more), then your hypothalamus needs to wake up and start producing gnrh again, which takes time, and then the same for your pituitary. It's not uncommon for people to be PCTing for half a year ...

This is good advice, actually explaining things instead of throwing broscience, which I already received apparently at the other forum and I see traces of here as well.

I am still waiting for bloods, but do you recommend a period of HCG and HMG as well?

I'll happily recover for a year, I have no stress in it, BUT what worried me was getting sick. Mentally crap is fine, but sick ontop of that makes me inable to fight. It might just have been a bad coincidence, but if I can prevent it and improve immune I'd like to try.

There has never been any talk of restarting asap like some make it sound like, and surprise feeling crap, no sick is the part I was asking for (health). If I can become a dad for life it far outweight any struggles now.

On another note, PCT is done today, and I actually feel better. BP is down, I start to feel libido, and sleep is better last few days/ a week. But, I am not so naive to think values are in range, will post here immediately when I get them.

Worst case I jump on again what is recommended here.

 

[Jin23]

This is good advice, actually explaining things instead of throwing broscience, which I already received apparently at the other forum and I see traces of here as well.

I am still waiting for bloods, but do you recommend a period of HCG and HMG as well?

I'll happily recover for a year, I have no stress in it, BUT what worried me was getting sick. Mentally crap is fine, but sick ontop of that makes me inable to fight. It might just have been a bad coincidence, but if I can prevent it and improve immune I'd like to try.

There has never been any talk of restarting asap like some make it sound like, and surprise feeling crap, no sick is the part I was asking for (health). If I can become a dad for life it far outweight any struggles now.

On another note, PCT is done today, and I actually feel better. BP is down, I start to feel libido, and sleep is better last few days/ a week. But, I am not so naive to think values are in range, will post here immediately when I get them.

Worst case I jump on again what is recommended here.

Honestly, there's too much details about your pct and health that I'd need clarification on in order to give you any sound advice.

Immune system takes a hit with hypogonadal androgens.

You also feel like shit because you are on two serms, well three actually, and one of them being zuclomiphene which is notorious for mental sides. And keep in mind, both zuclomiphene and tamoxifene have a long half life

Hcg and hmg "should" both be used for an extended period of time when coming off of a long time being shutdown. Should you do it now before you get results? Why not wait a day or two more ...?

 

[Hayes88]

Honestly, there's too much details about your pct and health that I'd need clarification on in order to give you any sound advice.

Immune system takes a hit with hypogonadal androgens.

You also feel like shit because you are on two serms, well three actually, and one of them being zuclomiphene which is notorious for mental sides. And keep in mind, both zuclomiphene and tamoxifene have a long half life

Hcg and hmg should both be used for an extended period of time when coming off of a long time being shutdown. Should you do it now before you get results? Why not wait a a day or two more ...

No I'll hold of course til bloods arrive, I don't want to make two mistakes in a row now when I receive help as well.

Dr.Scally helped me in my young years, but coming of TRT is as mentioned way bigger than a cycle as before, so I am very curious what my body allow. I started TRT due to not feeling 100% natural, I bet it will be the same now even if I recover somewhat. Though gotta think of family. Worst case I think I can get Nebido after kids arrive.

Thank you guys!

 

[Hayes88]

Results in!

Testosterone 2.37 (ref 0.95-11.95)
SHBG 1.13 (ref 1.10-5.18)
E2 14.5 (ref 10.7-39.8)

And as expected by many here:
LH and FSH - non existent/ unreadable

 

[Hayes88]

So reading the comments again I bought 6 vials of HCG, couldn't afford the HMG at the moment.
Seems I need 1 bottle of hmg e2d which is crazy...

Two questions:
I hear two sides of one story regarding HCG, one being higher dose is needed (e.g. 2000iu e3d) and others say it could cause desensitized leydig cells. What should I do?

Secondly, should I stay on Clomid? That seems to be the common practice, I haven't read of anyone using Nolva solo in contrast and success.

 

[Gigantic]

So reading the comments again I bought 6 vials of HCG, couldn't afford the HMG at the moment.
Seems I need 1 bottle of hmg e2d which is crazy...

Two questions:
I hear two sides of one story regarding HCG, one being higher dose is needed (e.g. 2000iu e3d) and others say it could cause desensitized leydig cells. What should I do?

Secondly, should I stay on Clomid? That seems to be the common practice, I haven't read of anyone using Nolva solo in contrast and success.

You don’t need more than 500iu every 3 days.

Stay on clomid for 3 months. I recommend 50mg/day, or 50/mg EOD IF you have visual distortions.

 

[Jin23]

Don't use clomid. Use Enclomiphene or tamox. Zuclomiphene is actually contra productive.

 

[Gigantic]

Don't use clomid. Use Enclomiphene or tamox. Zuclomiphene is actually contra productive.

I agree with Enclomiphene 100%. This works great for me with no sides. Problem is, I don't trust anyone's Enclomiphene except from compounding pharmacies. I go psycho on Deus Medical's enclomiphene.

 

[Jin23]

I agree with Enclomiphene 100%. This works great for me with no sides. Problem is, I don't trust anyone's Enclomiphene except from compounding pharmacies. I go psycho on Deus Medical's enclomiphene.

Oh, I remembered your thread yeah, it sounded like you were taking clomid ...

 

[Gigantic]

Oh, I remembered your thread yeah, it sounded like you were taking clomid ...

Clomid doesn't do that to me, and real clomid causes visual distortions. This stuff didn't.

 

[MR.BTB]

What country are you moving to that does not give trt legally?

And I’m not sure how much truth it holds but I have read a study before that mentioned low testosterone levels associated with high blood pressure.

All the best

 

[Burntoutn3rd]

Honestly if I were in your shoes I'd just find a way to keep getting testosterone.
You can have a kid easily just by stopping for a couple months, utilizing hmg and enclomiphene, then restarting.

As far as access to testosterone, unless you're in like the Amazon or the African bush, it's a very easy thing to get you hands on anywhere in the world. How difficult it'll be to do this and not feel like you're living a half-life for years wouldn't make it worth it to me.

If youre insistent on this though, hcg, hmg, enclomiphene, Boron citrate, DIM, and d aspartic acid.

DAA is legitimate for PCT or primary hypogonadism. It doesn't work to boost normal test levels higher, but it certainly helps bring failing production back up a bit. DIM will offset some of the estrogen from enclomiphene without harsh side effects. Boron citrate at 12mg a day keeps your SHBG low and allows more of your little bit of testosterone to stay unbound.

 

[Hayes88]

What country are you moving to that does not give trt legally?

And I’m not sure how much truth it holds but I have read a study before that mentioned low testosterone levels associated with high blood pressure.

All the best

Sweden - They do have Nebido and cream, but they are extremely anti anything hormone related there. I got arrested by 6 police outside my gym for being too big at 90kg at 185cm and clean, it's ridiculous. If I could get Nebido I need to first tank my testosterone to even be elligible, and then they usually give 1 shot with 3 months interval.

All in all, it would be another stress factor, but I am not against it if I will feel better on it. It depends a little on when kids arrive and the financials as to where we can afford a decent living.

Yes! BP can increase both in high and low values, BP can actually increase for a number of different reasons. In my case it seems to be chronic stress, at least what doctors believe. I personally think it has to do with bad sleep for x number of years as well, but it starts to get a little better.

 

[Burntoutn3rd]

Sweden - They do have Nebido and cream, but they are extremely anti anything hormone related there. I got arrested by 6 police outside my gym for being too big at 90kg at 185cm and clean, it's ridiculous. If I could get Nebido I need to first tank my testosterone to even be elligible, and then they usually give 1 shot with 3 months interval.

All in all, it would be another stress factor, but I am not against it if I will feel better on it. It depends a little on when kids arrive and the financials as to where we can afford a decent living.

Yes! BP can increase both in high and low values, BP can actually increase for a number of different reasons. In my case it seems to be chronic stress, at least what doctors believe. I personally think it has to do with bad sleep for x number of years as well, but it starts to get a little better.

Being in the EU, couldn't you technically get a prescription from any doctor in a member state?

 

[Jin23]

Sweden - They do have Nebido and cream, but they are extremely anti anything hormone related there. I got arrested by 6 police outside my gym for being too big at 90kg at 185cm and clean, it's ridiculous. If I could get Nebido I need to first tank my testosterone to even be elligible, and then they usually give 1 shot with 3 months interval.

All in all, it would be another stress factor, but I am not against it if I will feel better on it. It depends a little on when kids arrive and the financials as to where we can afford a decent living.

Yes! BP can increase both in high and low values, BP can actually increase for a number of different reasons. In my case it seems to be chronic stress, at least what doctors believe. I personally think it has to do with bad sleep for x number of years as well, but it starts to get a little better.

Yes. Low blood volume caused by low androgens can raise bp via sympathetic nervous system activation, ie. the body tries to increase/restore blood volume via vasoconstriction (mostly adrenaline vis a vie alpha receptors) and increased heart rate.

Low androgens can also increase anxiety which increases bp ...

 

[Jin23]

I need to first tank my testosterone to even be elligible,

Your testosterone already IS tanked bro. Go to an endo Now. And btw, if you had medically prescribed trt in the US, then I don't see how doctors in the sweden can afford to reject continuing your treatment.

 

[ThinBulk]

After trt, people are on hcg for months to regain reproductive function. I just read a study that took about 5 months for full fertility. Fertility only comes after endogenous test production. I'm in a similar position without the need to move. Trt while taking hcg to regain normal nut function/size is normal protocol.

One problem here is your advise is all over the board. I know it's too late, but i would have run hcg for 3 months while on trt, then done a basic, but longer, lower pct. Without coming off a gram of gear, there's less need for a high dose stack. Testicular atrophy doesn't just bounce back in a week or two.

I'm not in Europe, but I believe it's easy to find a local EU source.

 

[Hayes88]

Your testosterone already IS tanked bro. Go to an endo Now. And btw, if you had medically prescribed trt in the US, then I don't see how doctors in the sweden can afford to reject continuing your treatment.

Unfortunately Sweden is not as wonderful as media want to depict with free hospitals and whatnot, damn nightmare there to get help^^ In this case they can deny you on two accounts, one being the documentation and one being the prescription.

I am allowed to take medication from another country for 6 months, after that I need a Swedish doctor's checkup and prescription. From that point onward I am not allowed to use medication not allowed in Sweden and need to swap to Nebido. Though granted, I can travel in and out I guess, so I bet there are loopholes. Though in that case I need to ensure I don't loose anything since I cannot bring extra (custom checks), and loosing means not getting anything new. Gambling can risk a check mark in my register.

However, you guys are right that life would probably be better on than off trying to restart. My girl is not against it, just the simple "as long as you are happy I am happy", so will try and if it doesn't work I'd go for TRT and then a hcg, hmg regiment together with her under doctor's supervision as we will want to try and concieve.

Actually love being on, and being on TRT feeling-wise is a hundred times better than being on a cycle these days imho - the "less is more".