6 month HGH Cycle, worthwhile?

[Dr JIM]

I copied this off my test results.

IGF-1
Insulin-Like Growth Factor I 417 HIGH 47-192 ng/mL BN
Testosterone,Free and Total
Testosterone, Serum 1140 348-1197 ng/dL TA
Free Testosterone(Direct) >50.0 HIGH 6.6-18.1 pg/mL BN

How about posting the complete lab slip (exclusive of personal identifiers) mate perhaps that would help explain the discrepancies.

 

[Dr JIM]

A baseline IGF assay would also be particularly important towards determining what multiple above YOUR norm was achieved in this instance.
jim

 

[Pericles]

A baseline IGF assay would also be particularly important towards determining what multiple above YOUR norm was achieved in this instance.
jim

Correct, IGF-1 is the best way to measure GH. Thank you for pointing this important fact out, Jim.

 

[Pericles]

help me out.... How did i insult you???

i responded back in the 13 weeks thread... because the first post said competing in physique.

i don't know much about male physique competitors... but i know they aren't weighing in at 235 or so...

in addition, you run on about telling the OP to run a bunch of gear. when you clearly didn't read what he posted in the original message....

as for my wife... you did have some things to say that made perfectly good sense. However, your methods of training and gear use is not the be all end all.

I don't believe people need to DIE to win a competition. I do believe that is one of your Mantra's.

I am sorry Beezil. You have PM

 

[Pericles]

CBS: Ironically, I may be around 95% of the problems, but still come in second to you at 100% Also, I am not advocating a heavily moderated forum, just getting rid of the personal attacks. Everyone is sick of them.

I posted that I had gotten great results from Rips, laid out the changes in body weight and body fat. And then you jumped in and said "You're nuts, PC, completely nuts". You next call me "a "narcissist" I have just passed the 3 month mark of GH. I am thus in a position to help the OP. I may have a good relationship w/ Bio, but I am going to answer honestly as to what I recommend. The Rips available seem to be robust. NAPS has a very good price on RIPS w/ lab work. That is one option. BIO has nord pens, also well priced.

And MIllard, I disagree. Bio has worked very, very hard to provide what I consider to be the best ugl gear to be had. Stretch went through some serious shit, bad enough for him to consider getting help. He lashed out, and yes he made a huge mistake. Those of you who have not sinned are free to caste the first
stones.

So, what we have is a thread that started well, then got hijacked because vets brought a bunch of childish personal agendas. I take ownership of the fact that I am a guilty as any one else, well, almost as guilty as CBS.

And yes, it is an example of what is wrong here when claims are made that it is pure narcissism of me to note that a very important issue, how to train to preserve muscle is ignored. We have hundreds of discussions about how to do a pct, and none...or very few, discussions of how to retain size and strength after discontinuing steroids.

 

[Millard]

And MIllard, I disagree. Bio has worked very, very hard to provide what I consider to be the best ugl gear to be had. Stretch went through some serious shit, bad enough for him to consider getting help. He lashed out, and yes he made a huge mistake.

Pericles, what exactly do you disagree with? I have not questioned the quality of BIO's gear or the difficulties that Stretch may have had. That's irrelevant to the single issue that I've raised with you in this thread.

I am questioning the nature of an apparently active and ongoing threat against MESO members that you alerted us to. This does not sound like a past mistake. It is something that you presented as an imminent concern. Why the evasiveness?

Those of you who have not sinned are free to caste the first stones.

So, no one should criticize sources anymore?!

 

[Dr JIM]

Absolute BULLSHIT PC it's not the first time Stretch has made this kind of mistake and gone thru difficult times (haven't we all) but why in the hell is he continually given a damn pass, like some cat with nine lives. (I mean shit the very least the guy is a deranged pathological LIAR)

Perhaps your perception would be less biased (and more reality based) if you TWO fellas were not Bio brothers!

Oh yea that's right he left Bio and located a real job, "as a drug dealer" (his words not mine), lol!

More importantly rest assured he will make the same mistake over and over again because of whom he CHOOSES to associate with.

Ya see in the "real world" PC it works like this; action --- consequences.
So please reserve the non secular dogma for church or bible study, fella.

Millard I don't believe PC is being deliberately evasive.

Nope indeed these comments are just another manifestation of PC's inability to see the forest thru the trees
(see my earlier post)!!!

Jim

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

I posted that I had gotten great results from Rips, laid out the changes in body weight and body fat. And then you jumped in and said "You're nuts, PC, completely nuts".

Not quite. You posted the following answer in response (to a question about your previous post extolling the virtues of riptropin) to whether you had checked IGF-1 since starting riptropin:

Since using the Rips? I don't know. I will be getting some labs in a month or so. I would like to start doing 2 IU's twice a day. I have plenty of Rips' 4 kits.

To which I replied:

How can you say your rips are great if you haven't even confirmed their legitimacy with IGF-1 labs?

And if you try to tell me it's because "you can just tell," I'll point out to you the placebo group in the Rogain trials grew hair. Get the labs, PC.

As you can see, it was a genuine question. IGF-1 is the accepted way to evaluate hGH response. It wasn't off topic - it's a hGH thread.

You next call me "a "narcissist" I have just passed the 3 month mark of GH. I am thus in a position to help the OP. I may have a good relationship w/ Bio, but I am going to answer honestly as to what I recommend. The Rips available seem to be robust. NAPS has a very good price on RIPS w/ lab work. That is one option. BIO has nord pens, also well priced.

I called you a narcissist because of your outburst towards Beezil and believing (wrongly) you had been attacked by a mob in the 13 weeks thread. It had nothing to do with your comments on hGH. Tell me how it's possible to have any kind of discussion with you when you continuously deflect?

And at no point did you suggest Naps as a source of hGH. Instead, you used the opportunity to try to make a sale for YOUR employer. (See below)

I also have access to Nord pens. They come from the owner of Bio Logic.

As much as I hate to say it, CBS is right: Bio is private and even their web site is private too. However, I have the code and if you have that and a reference from me, you can buy from them.

Regarding my comment about you being nuts, again, it had NOTHING to do with your riptropin comments. It was intended as a tongue-in-cheek response to you finally coming clean about your status as a rep for Bio after your previous arguments, protestations and denials. That's why you said "As much as I hate to say it, CBS is right" To which I responded with the following:

After all that arguing, you finally admit you're a rep. You're nuts, PC, completely nuts.

Those comments are what set you off on this tirade, PC. It's right there in black and white for everyone to see. There is nothing I said to warrant your response, just as there was nothing that Beezil said to warrant your response.

And MIllard, I disagree. Bio has worked very, very hard to provide what I consider to be the best ugl gear to be had. Stretch went through some serious shit, bad enough for him to consider getting help. He lashed out, and yes he made a huge mistake. Those of you who have not sinned are free to caste the first
stones.

Of course you would say that. You WORK FOR Bio.

How "good" you think Bio is, is irrelevant. The fact is Bio crossed a line that is universally considered by the community to be a line sources DO NOT cross - that is, they threatened customers with their personal information which Bio kept for no other reason than that very purpose.

Your comment about casting the first stone is not only irrelevant, it ridiculous. Bio is not just guilty of an unforgivable sin, they are despicable.

So, what we have is a thread that started well, then got hijacked because vets brought a bunch of childish personal agendas. I take ownership of the fact that I am a guilty as any one else, well, almost as guilty as CBS.

No, you are totally at fault. It was you who derailed this thread as I've just proven conclusively.

And yes, it is an example of what is wrong here when claims are made that it is pure narcissism of me to note that a very important issue, how to train to preserve muscle is ignored. We have hundreds of discussions about how to do a pct, and none...or very few, discussions of how to retain size and strength after discontinuing steroids.

Another example of you deflecting any "substantive" discussion - the narcissism quote.

I'm sure you'll cry "personal attack" but this is the truth: you argue with everyone that doesn't accept your word as gospel and the list of people with whom you've had issues is endless. You lash out at the slightest perceived threat. You use the tactics of evasion and deflection to avoid having to face criticism. Any kind of serious debate or discussion with you is impossible because it decends into conflict. A narcissist? If the shoe fits...

CBS

 

[kawilt]

How about posting the complete lab slip (exclusive of personal identifiers) mate perhaps that would help explain the discrepancies.

I don't mind posting the whole thing Jim, perhaps you can suggest how to get my Estradiol down. I started arimidex a week right after these results but I haven't had blood work done again yet (don't know how long to wait). I had been off aas two weeks or more when I had these done. I was a little surprised by my test levels, I didn't think they would still be as high. I had been on 250mg TestE w/ 200 EQ EW.
I'll post them a little later today, got a job bidding next week and got to put some hours in, if I get on Meso I'm screwed, I don't seem to get anything else done but read post all day.

 

[ironwill1951]

i dont go on here just to bash people but damm you are the most arrogant person i have ever seen , according to you their is nothing you dont know.
your a race car driver a big time personal trainer, a gun expert, a martial arts expert, hell your a hero in your own mind . you know if your trying to be everybody to get people to like you its not working...


i don

CBS: Ironically, I may be around 95% of the problems, but still come in second to you at 100% Also, I am not advocating a heavily moderated forum, just getting rid of the personal attacks. Everyone is sick of them.

I posted that I had gotten great results from Rips, laid out the changes in body weight and body fat. And then you jumped in and said "You're nuts, PC, completely nuts". You next call me "a "narcissist" I have just passed the 3 month mark of GH. I am thus in a position to help the OP. I may have a good relationship w/ Bio, but I am going to answer honestly as to what I recommend. The Rips available seem to be robust. NAPS has a very good price on RIPS w/ lab work. That is one option. BIO has nord pens, also well priced.

And MIllard, I disagree. Bio has worked very, very hard to provide what I consider to be the best ugl gear to be had. Stretch went through some serious shit, bad enough for him to consider getting help. He lashed out, and yes he made a huge mistake. Those of you who have not sinned are free to caste the first
stones.

So, what we have is a thread that started well, then got hijacked because vets brought a bunch of childish personal agendas. I take ownership of the fact that I am a guilty as any one else, well, almost as guilty as CBS.

And yes, it is an example of what is wrong here when claims are made that it is pure narcissism of me to note that a very important issue, how to train to preserve muscle is ignored. We have hundreds of discussions about how to do a pct, and none...or very few, discussions of how to retain size and strength after discontinuing steroids.

 

[Ravtech]

While It obvious that certain members here have personality types that are never going to coexist peacefully, it is becoming more and more common for every thread turning into copiously quoting and ripping into every line your "opponent" says. People should be more concerned about the question being asked and the person in need of help than winning the pissing contest. If someone said something erroneous, point it out quickly and bluntly and then move on to providing constructive input. Just my .02

 

[Pericles]

This board, unfortunately, has become a complete time sink whole. I spent 2-3 hours here yesterday, spinning my wheels. Time I could have spent with my son, dogs, or watching a movie The vets did not provide one shred of help to the op. I did not learn anything, and the new guys/op certainly did not learn anything except that this board is not a good place to get any meaning full info.

I am as guilty as anyone else. So you know what I am am going to do: I am going to send love, tolerance, and kindness your way. CBS, JIM, Millard: I hope that you guys find happiness. May your hopes, and dreams come true for you. This being my last post for a while may be your first hope[)]

I will pop in from time to time, but this forum is simply to hot and the reward for being here too small.

I wish you all the blessings that this world has to offer.

To all the new guys, keep seeking knowledge, and don't let the behavior of a few stop your quest.

 

[mands]

This board, unfortunately, has become a complete time sink whole. I spent 2-3 hours here yesterday, spinning my wheels. Time I could have spent with my son, dogs, or watching a movie The vets did not provide one shred of help to the op. I did not learn anything, and the new guys/op certainly did not learn anything except that this board is not a good place to get any meaning full info.

I am as guilty as anyone else. So you know what I am am going to do: I am going to send love, tolerance, and kindness your way. CBS, JIM, Millard: I hope that you guys find happiness. May your hopes, and dreams come true for you. This being my last post for a while may be your first hope[)]

I will pop in from time to time, but this forum is simply to hot and the reward for being here too small.

I wish you all the blessings that this world has to offer.

To all the new guys, keep seeking knowledge, and don't let the behavior of a few stop your quest.

You lasted a whopping hour after posting this before posting on this very forum. lol

OMG!! You can't even tell yourself the truth.

I can't stop laughing at the comedy. I don't want you to go. PLEASE STAY!!!

Owe please don't come over to TID and spread your bullshit either, I will call you out over there in a heart beat. I know you've been training for 37 years. You know since you were 14 years old and all. I have sat back and let you spout off nonsense about crazy ass amounts of AAS use that one has to do to become a Pro. Complete bullshit. Maybe you should talk to a few Pro trainers and see how thier regimens compare to yours. I promise you... You aren't even close.

If I could make a suggestion PC. Go to a board that nobody knows you, change your name, quit giving out personal info about yourself, be real, don't try and out do eveyone and just mayble you will get the "reward" you are seeking.

mands

 

[kawilt]

I don't mind posting the whole thing Jim, perhaps you can suggest how to get my Estradiol down. I started arimidex a week right after these results but I haven't had blood work done again yet (don't know how long to wait). I had been off aas two weeks or more when I had these done. I was a little surprised by my test levels, I didn't think they would still be as high. I had been on 250mg TestE w/ 200 EQ EW.
I'll post them a little later today, got a job bidding next week and got to put some hours in, if I get on Meso I'm screwed, I don't seem to get anything else done but read post all day.

Jim....I sent you a PM yesterday. You can reply to me with a PM or here on this forum. I would like to send you my blood results.

 

[DieYoungStrong]

Jim....I sent you a PM yesterday. You can reply to me with a PM or here on this forum. I would like to send you my blood results.

Dr Jim will reply to your PM. He's helped me out in the past. He knows his stuff, and will get you sorted out.

 

[kawilt]

Dr Jim will reply to your PM. He's helped me out in the past. He knows his stuff, and will get you sorted out.

Thanks DYS. We are just trying to clear up some questions regarding the RIPs. I guess everybody that's using it is interested in Dr. Jims evaluation.

 

[kawilt]

Thanks DYS. We are just trying to clear up some questions regarding the RIPs. I guess everybody that's using it is interested in Dr. Jims evaluation.

I had previous issues with my GFR which is still low ( but getting better). This alone would cause the rise in my Igf-1 level. But without a baseline having been done (my screwup) there is no way to tell just what effect the RIPs had. I am thinking about discontinuing the RIPs ,for however long I find out that it takes to clear my system, and finding out my baseline. Maybe someone else that has had blood work done can post their results. So at this point, although it was kicked up quite high, I can't use my levels as a true indicator of how much of a role the Rips played without knowing my base line.
Thanks Dr. Jim for pointing me in the right direction to research low GFR effects on Igf-1 levels.

 

[Ravtech]

I'm thinking about running 6 months of GH, probably yellow tops from naps. Anyone have any experience with those? I have a nord pen to start off with but I think that's only 30iu's total and I can't afford $8/iu for 6 months.

 

[mands]

I wouldn't risk running any Chinese generics Ravtech. I would go with pharm grade. I know you mentioned money. I don't think you can put a price on your health and life. We don't know what the Chinese are putting in these generics. With that said you probably will need 2-3 times as much generic to get the same results at pharmacy grade gh. Therefore it might be a little cheaper for generic but not much.

What are your goals and why are you wanting to run gh?

mands

 

[Ravtech]

Interested in it for several reasons, and I like the idea of being able to run it when off cycle to help maintain muscle and keep bf low. I am prone to chronic migraines that can sometimes severely limit my ability to do cardio and train, especially when off cycle, so GH would help buffer the impact of this. Sometimes they last a day, sometimes a week. I also have horrible sleep patterns and bad insomnia so its aid in sleep pattern restoration would provide a host of benefits that come from getting a solid night's rest (I've used melatonin, Ambien, etc without much luck). Still not 100% sold that GH is the right route but it seems to have its benefits. I may just stockpile pharm grade over time to save for a cycle if generics are too sketchy. At this point just doing homework. I'm planning on eventually doing blast and cruise, at which point I probably wouldn't need it, but am still a year or two out from having kids with the wife so I don't want to risk fertility issues.