6 weeks later, blood levels look perfect but not feeling any better

[asdasd12312asdasd]

Hey guys,

Struggling a bit with this so hoping someone can push me in the right direction please.

I had low T symptoms (fatigue, libido, sleep, weak/strength issues) - not gonna into all the details but everything else looked ok and only testosterone stood out.

Total T: 11.5 nmol/L (320 ng/dl)
Free T: 292 pmol/L (84 pg/mL)
17b-Estradiol: 97 pmol/L (26.5 pg/ml)
SHBG: 20.6 nmol/L

I tried basically everything natural (lifestyle, diet, training, supplements, herbs, etc) before TRT but had no luck.

Protocol: 140mg a week of Testosterone Cypionate a week injecting around 40mg EOD
Got blood work done a few days ago just before injection (so a trough result).

Total T: 37 nmol/L (1067 ng/dL)
Free T: 1179 pmol/L (340 pg/mL)
17b-Estradiol: 269 pmol/L (73 pg/ml)
SHBG: 18 nmol/L
Hematocrit: 0.52 L/L
Lipids: HDL (0.88 mmol/L), LDL (2.4 mmol/L), Total (3.8 mmol/L), Tri (1.2 mmol/L)

I don't believe it but the levels are perfect, it's almost 4x higher but can't figure out what's wrong cause I don't feel any different / better, maybe some days I actually feel worse than before.
E2 is out of range and is showing 'very high' on the lab results but the ratio is 14:1 which some people say is optimal on TRT? No idea what else I can do to control it tho, though Injecting EOD already and diet / life / training is all dialed in, and also have only around 15% body fat.

I've searched through a lot of threads and have picked up on high hematocrit so gonna go donate blood ASAP.

Any other ideas?
Did it take longer than 6 weeks for anybody here to feel any effects?
Are there any other resources I can read up on to understand what else might be going on?
Cheers

 

[Evom1]

E2 is too high

Take 1/2mg arimidex 2x per week, retest in 4 weeks

 

[asdasd12312asdasd]

E2 is too high

Take 1/2mg arimidex 2x per week, retest in 4 weeks

Hi, thanks for the reply
I thought AI was seen as a bad thing as it can crash e2?? tricky to get anything where I live so I'll have to wait a couple of months if I order something from overseas
I feel like I've exhausted most natural options already but are there other any non arimidex ways to keep e2 in check?
what do you think is good e2 ratio or number on that total and free test?

 

[Rido]

E2 is too high

Take 1/2mg arimidex 2x per week, retest in 4 weeks

I havent screwed around with arimidex. couldn't he retest in 2 weeks since it acts quickly?

 

[Evom1]

Hi, thanks for the reply
I thought AI was seen as a bad thing as it can crash e2?? tricky to get anything where I live so I'll have to wait a couple of months if I order something from overseas
I feel like I've exhausted most natural options already but are there other any non arimidex ways to keep e2 in check?
what do you think is good e2 ratio or number on that total and free test?

You could add in primo at 75mg per week and that should bring it down a. It

I would aim to get your e2 around 35 or so, that's my personal opinion

 

[Badandy]

Give it longer than 6 weeks. I never felt the full “feels” difference for closer to 8-9 weeks from any dose increase. I have low shgb as well. The frequent shots will help keep your levels stable

 

[SkankHunt]

Deff get that E2 down a bit. Have you checked your thyroid levels? Maybe add some ashwaganda or Maca root supplements.

 

[Country Club Hero]

I bet you will feel significantly better if you go and donate double reds on the Alix (sp?) machine they have a the blood centers. I’d feel like a sluggish turd with hematocrit anywhere near your level.

 

[Rido]

Maybe It's something else and has nothing to do with hormones?


People always make it sound like trt will fix everything. It can help alot but it's not everything

 

[asdasd12312asdasd]

I bet you will feel significantly better if you go and donate double reds on the Alix (sp?) machine they have a the blood centers. I’d feel like a sluggish turd with hematocrit anywhere near your level.

thanks mate, yeah i was wondering if some of the negative things ive started feeling (itching, high body temp) are from high hematocrit. gonna try go and donate blood asap

 

[asdasd12312asdasd]

Deff get that E2 down a bit. Have you checked your thyroid levels? Maybe add some ashwaganda or Maca root supplements.

You could add in primo at 75mg per week and that should bring it down a. It

I would aim to get your e2 around 35 or so, that's my personal opinion

Thanks guys

Didn't think it was e2 at first coz some threads were saying the ratio is ok :/ Will try to get it in range.
Have no idea what primo is but will do some research, is it safe long term? coz im planning to stay on TRT for a very long time or for life.

I had some mild hypothyroidism a few years back.
And I started taking Ashwagandha regularly (not for thyroid but coz it naturally raises test). Stopped it recently thinking maybe what I'm feeling is from Ashwagandha coz lots of anecdotes say it can cause anhedonia.
I'll look into it again.

 

[Evom1]

Didn't think it was e2 at first coz some threads were saying the ratio is ok :/ Will try to get it in range.
Have no idea what primo is but will do some research, is it safe long term? coz im planning to stay on TRT for a very long time or for life.

Just use arimidex the same as a trt doc would. You can start real low with 1/4mg 2x per week if you want.

Primo is another steroid and works great at regulating e2

 

[TRENdy07]

If your true intentions are purely trt… lower you test to bring down your e2.. or possible more frequent injections. I’d avoid complicating things with an AI. I personally like to bring e2 down via primo

 

[Deezznutzz]

I say take the ai. I mean it's what 90% of trt patients at the clinic I go to do. And these are people who are on trt for the rest of their lives. I don't get why so many people are afraid of arimidex. Taking more steroids is going to be way more dangerous than taking arimidex. The Arimidex is bad for you stuff is Bro Science... nobody can post any studies where it says it's bad for you. They prescribe it to children for God's sakes. You see so many people on this website complain how bloated they are and holding water and they don't take an AI it's almost laughable.

 

[Deezznutzz]

Hi, thanks for the reply
I thought AI was seen as a bad thing as it can crash e2?? tricky to get anything where I live so I'll have to wait a couple of months if I order something from overseas
I feel like I've exhausted most natural options already but are there other any non arimidex ways to keep e2 in check?
what do you think is good e2 ratio or number on that total and free test?

I have never crashed my E2 by taking half an Arimidex two times a week taking 200 test a week. It'll probably put you right at about 32-38 estrogen.

 

[FishHead]

I think it's the long term A.I. use that can do you in. I have a high interest in adding primo to trt. Don't want to hijack the thread but any further experience is appreciated. Seems Primo has gotten quite popular for it's estrogen control properties.

I've read to use anywhere from 1:1 to 1:2 primo:test

 

[Deezznutzz]

I think it's the long term A.I. use that can do you in. I have a high interest in adding primo to trt. Don't want to hijack the thread but any further experience is appreciated. Seems Primo has gotten quite popular for it's estrogen control properties.

I've read to use anywhere from 1:1 to 1:2 primo:test

Nope. The top Dr's in TRT for the last 15 years all say it's safe. Watch some Dr Rand videos on arimidex.

 

[Smashshit]

I think it's the long term A.I. use that can do you in. I have a high interest in adding primo to trt. Don't want to hijack the thread but any further experience is appreciated. Seems Primo has gotten quite popular for it's estrogen control properties.

I've read to use anywhere from 1:1 to 1:2 primo:test

I think it’s only a problem if you overuse it to the point of crashing e2. Then the actual bad effects are form the lack of e2 nuero and cardio protection in that case not the ai itself. But that’s just my opinion based on my research of the subject.

 

[LW64]

Its actually quite simple - you're taking too much T.

Your T is high and your estradiol is over the top of the normal range. Estradiol is the OPPOSING hormone to T. Nothing like having a high T level and still feeling like shit, right? That's what high estradiol will do. Arimidex is not necessary when all you need is a T dose adjustment.

Lower your T dose to 100 mg per week.

Here's how to do it.

1. Skip your next weekly T injection(s). Your T level will drop, but its high anyway, so no harm done. This will allow your liver to clear the excess estradiol.
2. Start injecting again at 100 mg T per week.
3. Repeat your labs after 4 or 5 weeks on the lower dose.
4. Adjust your dose again (up or down), if needed, based on the lab results and how you feel.

It isn't called 'dialing it in' for nothing. It takes time, labs, and patience.

 

[entechad]

I say take the ai. I mean it's what 90% of trt patients at the clinic I go to do. And these are people who are on trt for the rest of their lives. I don't get why so many people are afraid of arimidex. Taking more steroids is going to be way more dangerous than taking arimidex. The Arimidex is bad for you stuff is Bro Science... nobody can post any studies where it says it's bad for you. They prescribe it to children for God's sakes. You see so many people on this website complain how bloated they are and holding water and they don't take an AI it's almost laughable.

I agree. You can even start out with .25 twice a week for two weeks. If you aren’t seeing improvements, move to .5 twice a week. Once you are seeing improvements, cut back to once a week, so you don’t dry yourself out. Low E is just as bad as High E, so don’t cruise at a high dose or take it too frequently.
Make sure you don’t drop below 29. You don’t want your Test:E ratio to be below 40:1. Adjust the arimidex accordingly. Ideally you want to land somewhere between 20:1 and 40:1.