sasquatchhunter
New Member
I'm bummed too
Was hoping this cheaper method of testing (AAA $200) would be accurate
Me too. I also wish I knew where to get legit pharm.
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
a few more GENERIC GH ASSAYS
- Thread starter Dr JIM
- Start date
Me too. I also wish I knew where to get legit pharm.
I gota say the pendulum sure looks like its swingin in a unfavorable direction for these tests.
Pro X thanks for sharing yr info with all.
Dr. Jim said he was goin to do some more testin on the Sero. I think he will b the first to step up if he thinks there is a issue.
If there is, and with the warm wellcome he gave to the ones that had questions and xperience about this type of testin he's gona take heat + .
But in the end as long as the truth finds its way out as it usually does It will b another lesson learned and we advance our understandin, there is no waste of time in that....
Pro X thanks for sharing yr info with all.
Dr. Jim said he was goin to do some more testin on the Sero. I think he will b the first to step up if he thinks there is a issue.
If there is, and with the warm wellcome he gave to the ones that had questions and xperience about this type of testin he's gona take heat + .
But in the end as long as the truth finds its way out as it usually does It will b another lesson learned and we advance our understandin, there is no waste of time in that....
Exactly Buck
We are all on the same team.....all of this testing is about "harm reduction"
This info I'm posting is just to add to the learning process
Mands knows I appreciate him and Jim
I always express my thanks via PM or Email
I think getting more accurate results is as simple as having Jim communicate with the testing lab for more accurate,testing methods (mg/vial) (HPLC)
My knowledge of the actual testing methods is very limited but you can see that the lab I used was very helpful in explaining some of the issues with my results
The last 4 samples being tested is at a lab i have good communication with. Ive used them for years.....hope to get more info on the results and testing method(s)
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These came from a private source that sells them as coming from pharmacy correct @ProfessorX ?
mands
Didn't other chinese pharm grade and others test right on with the AAA testing we did? I believe @ProfessorX donated them all.
Angtropin
Hyges
Biohygene
mands
Angtropin
Hyges
Biohygene
mands
As an update, the involved lab remains steadfast and convinced the results "ARE ACCURATE to within 10-15%, and probably closer to 5%"
So much so, THEY OFFERED, without being prompted wa, to forward the Sero "B" sample to another analytical lab, based in LosAngeles Calif, and have the AAA repeated for the FOURTH time.
Once again I'm not talking about a commercial, clandestine or bathtub lab but an immense university based facility that is relied upon, for the PUBLICATION of contemporary scientific research!
Nonetheless when those results approximate our existing assays, and I'be every reason to believe they will, some will still not believe ……….. so what else is new!
As for those naysayers my response remains the same, conduct your OWN TESTING and post the analytical details in such a transparent manner as MANDS and I have done.
Of course many of us know THAT WONT HAPPEN, as it's much easier to be play "Monday Night quarterback" and criticize or question the efforts of others yet fail to provide an evidence based remedy of their own.
Finally there are a few more checks and balances that will be pursued before this fat lady sings bc IF EMD is under dosing Sero's rest assured they will hear about it from yours truly!
JIM
So much so, THEY OFFERED, without being prompted wa, to forward the Sero "B" sample to another analytical lab, based in LosAngeles Calif, and have the AAA repeated for the FOURTH time.
Once again I'm not talking about a commercial, clandestine or bathtub lab but an immense university based facility that is relied upon, for the PUBLICATION of contemporary scientific research!
Nonetheless when those results approximate our existing assays, and I'be every reason to believe they will, some will still not believe ……….. so what else is new!
As for those naysayers my response remains the same, conduct your OWN TESTING and post the analytical details in such a transparent manner as MANDS and I have done.
Of course many of us know THAT WONT HAPPEN, as it's much easier to be play "Monday Night quarterback" and criticize or question the efforts of others yet fail to provide an evidence based remedy of their own.
Finally there are a few more checks and balances that will be pursued before this fat lady sings bc IF EMD is under dosing Sero's rest assured they will hear about it from yours truly!
JIM
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janoshik
Subscriber
Well, up until now it had been within 5% fo' sure, if my memory does not lie. Before then the AAA was the most accurate. Am I the only one noticing this, or am I being wrong?
SIMEC is also an accredited international lab with many great references and guess what their results proved out to be like.
And no worries about me not conducting my own research and testing. It's certainly much easier to do some research when I'm more than a sample forwarder, Mr. JIM.
Waiting for how this will turn out.
With best regards,
janoshik
SIMEC is also an accredited international lab with many great references and guess what their results proved out to be like.
And no worries about me not conducting my own research and testing. It's certainly much easier to do some research when I'm more than a sample forwarder, Mr. JIM.
Waiting for how this will turn out.
With best regards,
janoshik
Since when is Serostim Manufactured by EMD a Canadian rHGH manufacturer, been approved for sale in China, the latter being a clear cut violation of existing WHO proprietary rHGH sales guidelines.
The origin of these "discrepancies" is the sample SOURCE and ALWAYS is, IME!
Seros are ONLY approved for sale in the U.S. and Canada and perhaps a few other small countries who do NOT have the resources to manufacture rHGH.
Use the "lot number" and contact EMD
bc these are NOT legit PHARMACEUTICAL Seros !
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He did state the chemist stated closer to 5%. Jim is conducting more test and is going above and beyond to make certain everything checks out and is accurate.
Thanks for your support Jano. I know you are trying to keep a open mind with all this.
mands
Bc AA elute and or migrate at different rates the accuracy will depend upon which AA is selected to obtain the quantitative analysis.
Since Alanine is known to be
a "good player" most labs use this
AA for quantative GH assays as it has the LOWEST margin of error at roughly 5%.
The 10-15% is quoted bc this lab KNOWS someone can say but wait I ran the numbers you fellas cited but used Methionine and got a variance of 11%.
CORRECT bc Meth is a "bad player" and doesn't elute as well as other AA such as Alanine.
So if we use Alanine we are more likely to receive HIGHER, and more reliable, quantative results compared to many other AA except for GLYCINE ........ but there's an obvious problem with Glycine right.
But regardless of which AA is selected the variance should not exceed 10-15%
Since Alanine is known to be
a "good player" most labs use this
AA for quantative GH assays as it has the LOWEST margin of error at roughly 5%.
The 10-15% is quoted bc this lab KNOWS someone can say but wait I ran the numbers you fellas cited but used Methionine and got a variance of 11%.
CORRECT bc Meth is a "bad player" and doesn't elute as well as other AA such as Alanine.
So if we use Alanine we are more likely to receive HIGHER, and more reliable, quantative results compared to many other AA except for GLYCINE ........ but there's an obvious problem with Glycine right.
But regardless of which AA is selected the variance should not exceed 10-15%
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janoshik
Subscriber
JIM: that's actually quite good idea, to contact the manufacturer.
Mands: You've been a pleasure to deal with. I'll help if I can. PM'd you.
Mands: You've been a pleasure to deal with. I'll help if I can. PM'd you.
janoshik
Subscriber
If you only use a single Amino Acid for quantitation, the whole purpose of AAA is being undermined a bit, is it not?
And they elute with pretty good resolution, it's the derivatisation process (if any) that determines the accuracy - as that's what affects response rate. Fluorescent derivatisation being by far the most accurate, as far as I know. It's possible to analyse AAs even without derivatisation, in the deep UV, but that leaves too big of a margin of error.
Could you please ask the lab which of the three (4) do they use?
The four viable methods for AAA detection:
1) UV without derivatisation
2) UV with der.
3) Fluorescence with der.
(4) MS)
Don't be so discouraged. There are many good things coming out of this testing and further testing will be posted and provided on suspect samples. Including TP's black tops and GOdtropins along with Seros.
mands
Guys it doesn't have to be such a crap shoot but MANDATES due diligence on the part of any GH consumer.
The bottom line KNOW WHAT you are buying BEFORE making a purchase .
The latter is why testing is sooo important!
Oh and I received the trypsin LC/MS "Z" sample results yesterday.
They are very revealing and lend credibility to the AAA testing that has already been conducted.
@mands and I will review the data (some 89 pages) to determine which portions will be most useful to Meso members
They are very revealing and lend credibility to the AAA testing that has already been conducted.
@mands and I will review the data (some 89 pages) to determine which portions will be most useful to Meso members
CdnGuy
New Member
Why when I pop my head into Mands & Dr Jims threads there are always 2 or 3 "active members" complaining? They all seem to say the same thing and question the legitimacy of these tests! Not to mention you take one look at these cunts posting history here and 98% of their posts are in these threads! Gtfoh
janoshik
Subscriber
Great!
I think all the data might be useful, as I can interpret them to those interested easily.
Manufactured for:
EMD Serono, Inc, Rockland, Ma 02370 USA
Each vial containes:
4 mg Somatropin
27.3 mg Sucrose
.9 mg Phosphoric Acid and Sodium Hydroxide
I have a third lab testing 4 GH Samples (AAA)
I'll post those up and compare them to your labs results (Some of the samples are vials from the same kit that your lab tested)
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We have the info and LOT#'s and will be contacting EMD Serono bud. Thanks for all your help.
mands
Thank you too Mands.
I think the other samples (4 GH samples) might help shed some light on all this
At any time, you or Jim are welcome to reach out to the 2 labs I used also
They are easy to communicate with and seem knowledgeable
I'd have to go back over the samples, but there are some differences in the mg/vial result for other samples
The White Top Hygetropin kit:
2 different lab (Jim's- Mine) using the same testing method (AAA) had different mg/vial results on 2 vials from the same kit
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