A few questions about planning my first cycle

[rthor4573]

I will be running my first cycle within the next few months and there are really only 2 knowns so far, and they are...

-It will be a test (cyp) only cycle (I'm thinking 500wk, tho I'm not locked into that amount)

-It will be an 8 week cycle.

With it only being 8 weeks there is a need to either frontload or kickstart it, and I'm here to ask opinions to see what you guys recommend. I like the idea of kick starting with prop. My hangup is that when I enter in different doses of prop into a cycle calculator on top of the cyp doses, when it's time to drop the prop, test levels end up being higher than the rest of the cycle that is only the test cyp.

I hope that makes sense?

Do people take this into account when kickstarting? Am I way too zoomed into the minutia here? Because I feel like the prop doses would have to incrementally decrease as the test cyp levels came up in order to maintain stable blood levels.... what's the DEAL?

Or should I just frontload? Lol

Next question is... Is there a bf% you should shoot for before you begin a cycle? Is 18%ish too high? Should I cut then blast? Blast then cut (Im on 150 trt dose)? Can you cut on a first cycle? Is that a stupid question? I'm just wanting to do this right, so I want to set myself up to succeed.

Thanks all.

 

[Beware]

You’re new, keep it simple. Lower BF% before you start. If you can’t see your abs you’re fat.

 

[Test_Subject]

Rather than frontloading or kickstarting the cycle with prop, just add two weeks and make it a ten week cycle. I've tried both methods to jumpstart things and they only resulted in more side effects.

18% is a bit high. I'd personally cut down a bit beforehand, but that's your call. Cutting naturally is easier than bulking naturally, IMO.

Since you're on TRT, cutting down after the bulk without losing too much muscle mass shouldn't be too much of an issue.

 

[RunTrenFckTens]

You’re new, keep it simple. Lower BF% before you start. If you can’t see your abs you’re fat.

If you can't see your veins you're fat too!

 

[RunTrenFckTens]

Rather than frontloading or kickstarting the cycle with prop, just add two weeks and make it a ten week cycle. I've tried both methods to jumpstart things and they only resulted in more side effects.

18% is a bit high. I'd personally cut down a bit beforehand, but that's your call. Cutting naturally is easier than bulking naturally, IMO.

Since you're on TRT, cutting down after the bulk without losing too much muscle mass shouldn't be too much of an issue.

You can pretty much keep all your newbie gains after your first cycle if you are on TRT. Good point.

 

[bigpoppachump2]

I will be running my first cycle within the next few months and there are really only 2 knowns so far, and they are...

-It will be a test (cyp) only cycle (I'm thinking 500wk, tho I'm not locked into that amount)

-It will be an 8 week cycle.

With it only being 8 weeks there is a need to either frontload or kickstart it, and I'm here to ask opinions to see what you guys recommend. I like the idea of kick starting with prop. My hangup is that when I enter in different doses of prop into a cycle calculator on top of the cyp doses, when it's time to drop the prop, test levels end up being higher than the rest of the cycle that is only the test cyp.

I hope that makes sense?

Do people take this into account when kickstarting? Am I way too zoomed into the minutia here? Because I feel like the prop doses would have to incrementally decrease as the test cyp levels came up in order to maintain stable blood levels.... what's the DEAL?

Or should I just frontload? Lol

Next question is... Is there a bf% you should shoot for before you begin a cycle? Is 18%ish too high? Should I cut then blast? Blast then cut (Im on 150 trt dose)? Can you cut on a first cycle? Is that a stupid question? I'm just wanting to do this right, so I want to set myself up to succeed.

Thanks all.

Rather than frontloading or kickstarting the cycle with prop, just add two weeks and make it a ten week cycle. I've tried both methods to jumpstart things and they only resulted in more side effects.

18% is a bit high. I'd personally cut down a bit beforehand, but that's your call. Cutting naturally is easier than bulking naturally, IMO.

Since you're on TRT, cutting down after the bulk without losing too much muscle mass shouldn't be too much of an issue.

As my good fellow @Test_Subject already said, you should drop the 8 week idea and move it to 10 or weeks. I personally would do a 12 week cycle since I believe that extra 2 weeks helps to solidify and keep the gaines you made it the weeks prior. Some people really dont begin to see anything before week 5 and only going 8 weeks will be such a tease when your cycle peaks and you end it a week later.

 

[rthor4573]

If you can't see your veins you're fat too!

Well I can definitely see my arms and shin veins, if that counts lol

As my good fellow @Test_Subject already said, you should drop the 8 week idea and move it to 10 or weeks. I personally would do a 12 week cycle since I believe that extra 2 weeks helps to solidify and keep the gaines you made it the weeks prior. Some people really dont begin to see anything before week 5 and only going 8 weeks will be such a tease when your cycle peaks and you end it a week later.

I was planning on 8 weeks with a FL or KS originally because I had constraints 3 months apart that I couldn't really be running anything other than my trt. That may not be the case now. If so, then yes it will be a 10 or 12 weeker.

While I have you guys, I have another question. Whats the deal with having tattoos and posting physique pictures. I have quite a few, so it's not like I could just blur them out and still have a lot of my stunningly sexy body to show off. Do some guys not post pics because of identifiable tattoos? I know it's not your face, but i also know they document tattoos in prison for identifying purposes (not that ive been lol)

 

[Oldschool]

I will be running my first cycle within the next few months and there are really only 2 knowns so far, and they are...

-It will be a test (cyp) only cycle (I'm thinking 500wk, tho I'm not locked into that amount)

-It will be an 8 week cycle.

With it only being 8 weeks there is a need to either frontload or kickstart it, and I'm here to ask opinions to see what you guys recommend. I like the idea of kick starting with prop. My hangup is that when I enter in different doses of prop into a cycle calculator on top of the cyp doses, when it's time to drop the prop, test levels end up being higher than the rest of the cycle that is only the test cyp.

I hope that makes sense?

Do people take this into account when kickstarting? Am I way too zoomed into the minutia here? Because I feel like the prop doses would have to incrementally decrease as the test cyp levels came up in order to maintain stable blood levels.... what's the DEAL?

Or should I just frontload? Lol

Next question is... Is there a bf% you should shoot for before you begin a cycle? Is 18%ish too high? Should I cut then blast? Blast then cut (Im on 150 trt dose)? Can you cut on a first cycle? Is that a stupid question? I'm just wanting to do this right, so I want to set myself up to succeed.

Thanks all.

Since you are on trt I don’t see a problem with an eight week blast. But I do see the point of making the most out of your first blast. It always seems to be the most dramatic/successful blast for most folks. 12 weeks at 500 will be a fun ride for you. In regards to your body fat that is a personal call in my opinion. You don’t seem to be in a rush. What is your lifting history? If I missed that I apologize.

 

[rthor4573]

Since you are on trt I don’t see a problem with an eight week blast. But I do see the point of making the most out of your first blast. It always seems to be the most dramatic/successful blast for most folks. 12 weeks at 500 will be a fun ride for you. In regards to your body fat that is a personal call in my opinion. You don’t seem to be in a rush. What is your lifting history? If I missed that I apologize.

I touched on it in another post, maybe my introduction.

My lifting history will not impress you. Up until 2 years ago, I never did any real weight training to speak of. Some here and there, but for all intents and purposes, nothing until 2 years ago. Im low-mid 30s. I'm 6'4", and currently about 210. I've never been overweight, always tall and slim, but had the typical skinny with a small food belly until 2 years ago. I was diagnosed with opioid substance disorder a couple years ago, which caused low t, hence trt. Hitting the gym and watching my diet was a great place to focus my energy in staying motivated and sober. Lifestyle revolves around it. I dont do the gym and diet casually.

What I can say is that in the 2 years I've been lifting, is that I've been damn consistent and committed. Gym 6 days a week. When I'm not bulking or cutting, I'm at least always hitting protein macro, and fast food is very much a rarity for me. I've bulked up to 225, cut down to 205. Body has totally recomped.

I acknowledge that I dont have the lifting experience or numbers that most recommend before blasting. But given my age, my absolute dedication, the fact that I'm on TRT anyway, and my progress in the past 2 years, I've decided to do a cycle (tho like you said, I'm not in a hurry).

Sorry for long post, but if people take the time to give me advice, I'd rather be honest and give the whole picture.

 

[Oldschool]

I touched on it in another post, maybe my introduction.

My lifting history will not impress you. Up until 2 years ago, I never did any real weight training to speak of. Some here and there, but for all intents and purposes, nothing until 2 years ago. Im low-mid 30s. I'm 6'4", and currently about 210. I've never been overweight, always tall and slim, but had the typical skinny with a small food belly until 2 years ago. I was diagnosed with opioid substance disorder a couple years ago, which caused low t, hence trt. Hitting the gym and watching my diet was a great place to focus my energy in staying motivated and sober. Lifestyle revolves around it. I dont do the gym and diet casually.

What I can say is that in the 2 years I've been lifting, is that I've been damn consistent and committed. Gym 6 days a week. When I'm not bulking or cutting, I'm at least always hitting protein macro, and fast food is very much a rarity for me. I've bulked up to 225, cut down to 205. Body has totally recomped.

I acknowledge that I dont have the lifting experience or numbers that most recommend before blasting. But given my age, my absolute dedication, the fact that I'm on TRT anyway, and my progress in the past 2 years, I've decided to do a cycle (tho like you said, I'm not in a hurry).

Sorry for long post, but if people take the time to give me advice, I'd rather be honest and give the whole picture.

I say run your cycle and don’t look back. Enjoy the ride and keep us posted.

 

[rthor4573]

I say run your cycle and don’t look back. Enjoy the ride and keep us posted.

I will. Cycle log and all.

 

[RunTrenFckTens]

What's your TRT dose at? You could run Test prop along with it to hit your 500mg/wk. ie) 350 test prop with 150 test e(TRT). Do that for 8 weeks and you'll be happier. You can inject MWF, instead of ED or EOD.

I have heard that opioids suppress testosterone, but I did not know that it was a permanent suppression. I thought it was only while one was using them. Interesting.

 

[rthor4573]

What's your TRT dose at? You could run Test prop along with it to hit your 500mg/wk. ie) 350 test prop with 150 test e(TRT). Do that for 8 weeks and you'll be happier. You can inject MWF, instead of ED or EOD.

I have heard that opioids suppress testosterone, but I did not know that it was a permanent suppression. I thought it was only while one was using them. Interesting.

My TRT dose is, in fact, 150. Yeah I have thought about that.

I should have clarified. Im on buprenorphine/naloxone medication, titrating my dose over time. Probably another 4 years the way my doc does his dosing schedule. So thats why my test is still so low and warrants TRT.

 

[Cashton]

My TRT dose is, in fact, 150. Yeah I have thought about that.

I should have clarified. Im on buprenorphine/naloxone medication, titrating my dose over time. Probably another 4 years the way my doc does his dosing schedule. So thats why my test is still so low and warrants TRT.

Run your cycle and have fun with it.. do your thing.. but I wanna touch down on something else here, 4 years on suboxone seems long.. I have been on about 11 months, went to 28mg, as of today I’m on 12, and lowering.. trt because of suboxone doesn’t sound like the best idea.. I’m not a medical professional but I’m questioning if 4 years is a little long for suboxone therapy..

 

[RunTrenFckTens]

My TRT dose is, in fact, 150. Yeah I have thought about that.

I should have clarified. Im on buprenorphine/naloxone medication, titrating my dose over time. Probably another 4 years the way my doc does his dosing schedule. So thats why my test is still so low and warrants TRT.

350 of prop is kinda hard to split into 3 doses, but you could mix your TRT in with your prop to reduce the PIP.

You could do
Monday - 100mg prop 50mg TRT
Wed - 100mg prop 50mg TRT
Fri - 100mg prop 50mg TRT
To hit 450mg/wk or go 125mg prop with 50mg TRT MWF for 525mg/wk

That's better than being on Methadone man. Congrats on the sobriety.

 

[rthor4573]

Run your cycle and have fun with it.. do your thing.. but I wanna touch down on something else here, 4 years on suboxone seems long.. I have been on about 11 months, went to 28mg, as of today I’m on 12, and lowering.. trt because of suboxone doesn’t sound like the best idea.. I’m not a medical professional but I’m questioning if 4 years is a little long for suboxone therapy..

I started at 16, I'm down to 6. Different places schedule the dosing differently. My doctor follows the literature that essentially says the longer on the meds, the less chance of relapse. He was going to do 1mg reductions, i talked him into 2. I also agree that it seems a little long, but this is another thing that doesn't seem wise to rush. So if it dictates TRT, then I'm ok with it.

350 of prop is kinda hard to split into 3 doses, but you could mix your TRT in with your prop to reduce the PIP.

You could do
Monday - 100mg prop 50mg TRT
Wed - 100mg prop 50mg TRT
Fri - 100mg prop 50mg TRT
To hit 450mg/wk or go 125mg prop with 50mg TRT MWF for 525mg/wk

That's better than being on Methadone man. Congrats on the sobriety.

Thanks man. My life literally couldn't be any different than it was 3 years ago.
I'll think about all the ester and dosing possibilities and let you all know when i pull the trigger. Thanks for everyone's input. I really appreciates all the different takes.

 

[Demondosage]

Keep it simple. Forget all this frontloading this and that, hit 2cc per week x 10 wks and stick to the goal of size and strength...period!!

One common mental fuck I see a lot of guys having lately is the desire to look like Schwarzenegger after their first real cycle. One week they want to train heavy and eat more, the next week they're trying to see their abs. Keep it simple, focus more on eating a sufficient amount of nutrients and calories to assist in muscular growth and get every damn thing you can out of it. There will be a time for cutting later on down the road, but no cycle is quite like that first real cycle.

I'm gonna put it to ya like this...my first cycle ever was 1 bottle of test cyp for 8 wks and I was up just over 20 lbs. After that I had cycles that were 10 vials worth of shit and didn't yield me what that first one did in terms of muscle mass. Seriously

 

[bigpoppachump2]

I was diagnosed with opioid substance disorder a couple years ago, which caused low t, hence trt.

This shit cracks me up lol. Call it what it is man, you're a big bad drug addict who liked to get fucked up and had a hard time getting off when the withdrawals started.

Opioid substance disorder=drug addict I hate when they make it out to be some underlying health condition. You kept your hand in the fire a little too long and caught the habit that's what it is. Just like the rest of us you gotta knuckle up and face this thing head on. I'll tell you now that coming off 1mg of subs is gonna suck all the same as coming off 2 or 4. The quicker you get off that shit the faster you can really start focusing on getting better cause all you really did was hit the pause button cause one day the withdrawal will be there along with the emotional roller coaster of dealing with life on life's terms instead of looking for that cure to help you deal.

 

[rthor4573]

This shit cracks me up lol. Call it what it is man, you're a big bad drug addict who liked to get fucked up and had a hard time getting off when the withdrawals started.

Opioid substance disorder=drug addict I hate when they make it out to be some underlying health condition. You kept your hand in the fire a little too long and caught the habit that's what it is. Just like the rest of us you gotta knuckle up and face this thing head on. I'll tell you now that coming off 1mg of subs is gonna suck all the same as coming off 2 or 4. The quicker you get off that shit the faster you can really start focusing on getting better cause all you really did was hit the pause button cause one day the withdrawal will be there along with the emotional roller coaster of dealing with life on life's terms instead of looking for that cure to help you deal.

Um, yeah. I'm aware.

I'm sorry that you hate the official medical terminology that, when coded into my medical health record, requires my health insurance to cover my treatment, thus enabling me to continue with my life.

As a matter of fact, I'm calling it exactly what it is.

Thanks for your nuanced opinion tho.

 

[Gymjitsu]

Um, yeah. I'm aware.

I'm sorry that you hate the official medical terminology that, when coded into my medical health record, requires my health insurance to cover my treatment, thus enabling me to continue with my life.

Thanks for your nuanced opinion tho.

So from my gathering, you got on trt because of previous opiate abuse? If so I'm kinda in the same boat. I've never touched heroin, but it doesn't matter it's all the same, I FUCKED my body up at a very young age (starting at 14) by starting with "lean" moving into percs and then before I knew it Roxy's and Opanas were in my nose every day. Just escaping reality. Totally destroyed my hpta, I turned my life around and found my discipline at about 19 but didn't realize the health effects until I was 22. ( I was "clean" for several years, I use quotations because I still smoke weed).
It's crazy the stupid shit we do when we are young thinking there won't be repercussions.