No it’s different, your not in the same boat as your not on a medication that it currently suppressing your Hpta/test
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
A few questions about planning my first cycle
- Thread starter rthor4573
- Start date
You know what.. you usually post good content, enjoyable to read, informative or entertaining, but this post was just trash.
rthor4573
Member
Cashton is right here. I am currently on medication that suppressing my hpta/test, but it's because of my past opioid abuse. I'd be interested to know how easily one's test production could recover after opioid abuse history. I'm curious to know if its as suppressive as, say, blasting (and some can recover, some cant?)
Well said. I was surprised to see something like this come from him.
Gymjitsu
Well-known Member
I think it's just dependant on the person. My levels a few years after we're incredibly low, Like 200 .. and it's no wonder why I was dragging ass and felt rundown allll the time.
I have old friends though, who were "lucky" and didnt get the suppression, but I wouldn't say they are doing better in life.
bigpoppachump2
Well-known Member
Its not trash. I've been through it. What I said was the cold hard truth. The medical professionals make this out to be some pre existing medical condition and its just not we fucked up and got ourselves hooked on this drug and we are looking for the easy button to get off it and I'm here to tell you there is no easy button. You can run from it but the day will come when you WILL be sober and you will have a hard time with it. And subs nor meth is the easy way off and for many it's just another dark road. I commend you for wanting to change and do something about it but we all gotta pay the piper for our opiate addiction and the sooner you face that monster head on the sooner you can go about putting your life back together. Dont care if you liked my post I'm just speaking the truth from the heart buddy.
bigpoppachump2
Well-known Member
I wasnt so much being a dick towards you I just dont like how the medical professionals coddle people into thinking this is something along the lines of cancer etc. This was a choice WE made. They make some people feel as though it's ok cause "its a medical condition" when it's not ok we should feel a bit of shame and guilt and use it to drive us to become better people. Too many people use that medical condition jargon as an excuse to keep abusing opiates like "it's ok I have a medical condition, I'll be better one day"
bigpoppachump2
Well-known Member
Sometimes the cold hard truth is what we need to hear.
The words that finally pushed me towards towards getting off this shit went like this:
My best friend who got on heroin long before I did got sober right about the time I started getting deeper into addiction.
We went our separate ways for a few years after his wedding and he went the way of family man and I went the way of homeless drug addict.
One day I was walking down the street and he just so happened to drive by and see me. Well he swung around and picked me up and asked where i was going and i was like "where you think? I'm going to the spot to cop" and I proceeded to bum $20 off him pulling on his heart strings about being sick knowing him of all people would understand. The dropped me off a couple blocks from the deep hood but before I got got out he told me that it was time to make a decision, it was time to shit or get off the pot. It was time to make up my mind and get off the shit or just totally say goodbye to friends and family and those who cared about me and just go and be the best damn junkie I could be or come home and straighten my life out. He said he didn't think I had it in me to continue on like I was cause I still cared too much about people and what people thought of me and how disappointed some people were that they didn't see me anymore
I went and got my couple bags that day and sat behind the section 8 apartment complex in Elizabeth NJ and thought about what hed said for hours. That night I took the bus back to his house which was pretty fucking far and asked him to keep me there until I kicked. And he did, that fucker wouldnt let me leave well he said "you're free to go but you ain't got any money and you're too sick to walk that far anyway so where the fuck can you really go?"
I stayed sober for a couple weeks and then I relapsed once and nodded out in Muhlenberg hospital emergency room in Plainfield NJ so long that the cops opened the door with a key and I lowered my shoulder and plowed through them like a running back and outran them across the parking lot. Later that day I just layed on my mothers couch just totally disgusted with myself that I had caved to temptation once again and she could see it in my body language that I'd gotten high again but this time I used that guilt against my addiction and kept it burning inside me. That day in that bathroom was the last time I'd ever done heroin and that was 2004.
I'd had a couple mini habits since then in the mid 2010s from medical procedures and just figured ah no big deal that was so long ago surely I'm over opiates by now.... wrong. Once you got the habit you've always got the habit and it's just sitting and waiting for you to reawaken it. Now I'm completely aware of that and stay away from all things of that nature including alcohol.
But I've done the methadone thing many times and even allowed myself to be duped into thinking that suboxone was helping. You can go back in my post history a few years ago and visually see and read how much different I actually was when on subs even though I couldn't see it (with my first handle "bigpoppachump"). And yes the withdrawals from 2mg were as bad as they were from 8mg or more for me as I kept trying to get off them. Clonidine was a lifesaver and was the piece of the puzzle I needed to help take just enough edge off of the withdrawals to actually pull it off and get sober. And also that constipated food baby on gear and subs is a morherfucker too lol
rthor4573
Member
This is sooo not the direction I thought this thread would go, but I suppose sometimes they take on a life of their own.
I would argue that the medical professionals do not coddle their patients, nor do the majority of patients use the term substance abuse disorder as an excuse for their behavior or decisions. Doctors are required to put a diagnosis for their patients, and this is what they put in that box. Maybe your experience is different and you've seen this used as an excuse. I certainly don't use it as an excuse, and I own up to the mistakes I've made. I said I was diagnosed with substance abuse disorder because.... drumroll... i was diagnosed with substance abuse disorder. I didn't say I was addicted to opioids because of some preexisting condition. I labeled it as a current one.
I realize this is mainly a debate of semantics at this point, but i think it's a significant one.
I think it's statements like some of the ones you made that do nothing to help the stereotypes and stigmas that are associated with those addicted, be it to anything really. Addiction doesn't have a type, a demographic, or a preference. The hood or the hills, it doesnt matter. Me "holding my hand over the fire too long" could have been me recovering from a rock climbing accident where I crushed my L4-L5 vertebrae and had to be on painkillers for 2 years while I learned how to walk again... or it could've been from being and idiot and clogging my nose with vicodin then oxy then China.
I'm glad that you got off everything. I will get there one day, continuing to titrate my doses as fast or slow as me and my doctor agrees to. Everyones paying of the piper looks a little different, and I'm on the monthly installment plan.
I think most people that are in active recovery has called it like it is, realized they need help, and has faced the cold hard truth all on their own. They're not looking for the easy button. Because you're right, there isn't one. I'm not saying there aren't some shitty-ass people out there, but painting everyone with that large brushstroke is a disservice to them and yourself. Not everyone find their rock bottom at a section 8 housing complex in NJ... their rock bottom is just where they stop digging.
I just fundamentally disagree with your posts and your portrayal of those who have been diagnosed and are on medication, like myself.
But it's ok to disagree.
If my coworkers knew my history, they'd be shocked. It could be the person standing next to you at any point throughout your day. I just prefer to speak of them with a little more respect than most afford to them. I work in the medical field, and I have many coworkers that talk some shit about addicts. And that kind of sucks to hear, because they don't know their friend standing next to them is one himself.
That's right man. I admit it. "Calling it what it is", or however you put it. And I'm proud as fuck about my recovery so far, and I'm not dishing out any damn excuses.
bigpoppachump2
Well-known Member
Brother I'm not wishing you bad in any way. And yes I was speaking from experiences that I've had and even experiences I'm currently dealing with my friend "Derrick" and a couple other people that I've known over the past few years that use the medical definition of the "disorder" as a blanket for continuing relapse. It doesnt matter how you became addicted all got there by stretching out our dependance on opiates just a little too long. And I'm sorry for derailing your thread I just feel strongly about this subject having been through so many different avenues of it from medically prescribed opiates for surgical rehabilitation to the actual beast itself in heroin. I see lots of people get brainwashed into some bad ways of thought due to medical professionals and the meds they use to treat this addiction.
I'll drop the subject but before I do please try to come off of then long before the 4 year mark your dr has set forth. I believe 100% that staying on things like subs and methadone for long periods of time can and do change a person's personality and way of thinking. I've had some friends that never reverted back to themselves when they came off the maintenance opioids.
rthor4573
Member
It was quite obvious my using the term disorder was triggering to you, at least to some degree, because it instigated a few monologs from you. I responded in kind, putting forth another view.
I just have a problem with the "medical professionals brainwashing patients" line of thinking. They are diagnosing and treating patients according to best practices found in the current literature.
I concede there may be more people than I think that are using it as an excuse to justify relapse. That very well could be.
And I too will excuse myself from the subject, in this thread anyway.
While I admit I may have made it personal here or there, I don’t mind debating and arguing points of view. No harm, no foul.
bigpoppachump2
Well-known Member
Nah man I never took offense. I just easily get worked up when it's a subject I feel strongly about and I tend to lack nuance and become blunt.
Now on to actual experience based help lol.
If you plan to run gear on subs I might suggest talking to your Dr about something for constipation. I did a cycle when I was on one 8mg per day and I had the most distended stomach from the back up of food and waste from the suboxone. I took a half dose of miraLAX every 2 days and it kept me just regular enough to go at least twice per day. If you are consuming 4000+ calories a day and only going once per day I'd imagine it cant be good holding all that waste inside.
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rthor4573
Member
Yeah, so i actually take a combination stool softener and laxative every night. Keeps me quite regular. I did have a large problem with constipation starting out. But it's definitely something I currently stay on top of. Thats a good point you make about all the extra food, so I'll make sure to take extra care. Good looking out.
bigpoppachump2
Well-known Member
This is pretty much exactly what I had typed up and then I went back and made sure I wasnt just parroting what someone else already said. But to maybe expand on what was: Personally I dont feel as though 18% is too much bf to start a cycle but you're not far away from too much so I'd be careful not to go completely overboard on the bulking macros and try to stay as clean as possible on your calorie sources.
I also thought “opioid substance disorder” was a pretty fancy way of saying I’m addicted to pain pills/ heroin. I’ve also been there done that and I’m still on subs, been on them for a very long time. I will say I’ve never had any constipation issues with subs and gear though.
bigpoppachump2
Well-known Member
I looked pregnant lol. Whether I ate 5000 calories per day or 3000 I only went once per day. After week 6 it got to be ather uncomfortable and I pleaded with my dr to write me a script for it. In the end I just settled with taking miralax every other day and the helped keep things moving and shitting twice per day.
RunTrenFckTens
Member
I may be uninformed so correct me if I am wrong. Yes addiction does come down to a simple choice of using or not using drugs/drinking. Is there not some genetic predisposition to it though, that once you open that door it is extremely hard to close? So could it not be classified as a medical condition?
rthor4573
Member
So genetics does play a role in one's susceptibility and disposition to becoming addicted, and could be as much as 50% depending on where you look. It's actually really interesting if you read into it.
Yes your decisions play a big role in it too tho, of course. If you never took that first drink, you wouldn't have become an alcoholic. If you didn't break your wrist and taken pain pills, you wouldn't be addicted to opioids, etc.
I'd like to clarify that when I said diagnosed with "substance abuse disorder" (not "opioid substance disorder", as was misquoted by another member) that I was not blaming a condition for becoming addicted. I wasnt trying to belittle addiction, or brush it off. (Not that you were saying that I was @RunTrenFckTens (thats the best handle ever btw))
But that is the actual, medical term they use to refer to addicts in the medical field. Addicts of any substance really, not just opioids. I was simply using the technical medical jargon. That's all.
rthor4573
Member
But to answer your question succinctly.
Yes. It is viewed as a medical condition in healthcare.
Yes. It is viewed as a medical condition in healthcare.
Addiction is partly genetic/hereditary. So if you know that then the answer is clear to not take anything. One side of my family, cant have one of anything, its all or nothing in every catergory of life, good or bad.
i will say the less subs you take everyday. The more high you get on them. When i was on .5 mg of suboxone. I got just as high as a any ither opiate. When on 3 mg or more. The high feeling never happens. So for me it was harder to come off at a lower dose, because the felling of getting high is much more apparent. This is due to half life and blood levels. So tapering iff subs is hard since you get high when you take less.
i tell the teenagers in my family to make sure they know our family is very easily addicted to things.
