A GH and fat loss protocol (rhGH lipolysis) that is science-based

[trtchin]

I have searched this thread, searched the whole forum, and searched a lot on Reddit. I understand there is probably not a definitive answer here. Is there an increased cancer risk running daily "replacement" doses of HGH (1-3iu) for general well being, fat loss and healing?

I'm not talking about growing existing cancers or tumors.

Cancer runs in my family including losing 3 grandparents and my mom. My PSA is low and I get checked by a dermatologist every other year as my mom died of melanoma.

Im 44 years old, my last IGF value was 112.

 

[OldGHGuy]

I have searched this thread, searched the whole forum, and searched a lot on Reddit. I understand there is probably not a definitive answer here. Is there an increased cancer risk running daily "replacement" doses of HGH (1-3iu) for general well being, fat loss and healing?

I'm not talking about growing existing cancers or tumors.

Cancer runs in my family including losing 3 grandparents and my mom. My PSA is low and I get checked by a dermatologist every other year as my mom died of melanoma.

Im 44 years old, my last IGF value was 112.

There's no definitive answer. The current thinking says HGH doesnt CAUSE cancer but will cause EXISTING tumors to grow. With your history, I would probably avoid HGH, to be on the safe side.

 

[Ateam2023]

I have searched this thread, searched the whole forum, and searched a lot on Reddit. I understand there is probably not a definitive answer here. Is there an increased cancer risk running daily "replacement" doses of HGH (1-3iu) for general well being, fat loss and healing?

I'm not talking about growing existing cancers or tumors.

Cancer runs in my family including losing 3 grandparents and my mom. My PSA is low and I get checked by a dermatologist every other year as my mom died of melanoma.

Im 44 years old, my last IGF value was 112.

its not worth the risk with that family history of cancer, i wouldn't advise the use in this case , And you're really NOT gonna miss much honestly, if its fat loss your after , imo a glp1 would be the best bet ,,

 

[trtchin]

There's no definitive answer. The current thinking says HGH doesnt CAUSE cancer but will cause EXISTING tumors to grow. With your history, I would probably avoid HGH, to be on the safe side.

its not worth the risk with that family history of cancer, i wouldn't advise the use in this case , And you're really NOT gonna miss much honestly, if its fat loss your after , imo a glp1 would be the best bet ,,

Thanks to both.

 

[Ghoul]

I have searched this thread, searched the whole forum, and searched a lot on Reddit. I understand there is probably not a definitive answer here. Is there an increased cancer risk running daily "replacement" doses of HGH (1-3iu) for general well being, fat loss and healing?

I'm not talking about growing existing cancers or tumors.

Cancer runs in my family including losing 3 grandparents and my mom. My PSA is low and I get checked by a dermatologist every other year as my mom died of melanoma.

Im 44 years old, my last IGF value was 112.

It's not black or white.

The theory is that increased IGF, naturally or from rHGH speeds up the growth of cancer. As already said, there's no evidence it creates new cancers, but cancerous cells that would never be detected or become a problem in your lifetime may become so after elevating your IGF, even if that was accomplished naturally, by exercising for instance.

How much? At physiological levels, probably not much. At supra-physiological levels more than otherwise, and this is likely where the real risk lies.

That said, at least in aids patients using Tesamorelin for an average increase of 100, growth hormone deficient children and adults, who are all kept within physiological ranges, there doesn't seem to be a meaningful increase in cancer mortality after many years of observation.

But anyone who develops detectable cancer is always taken off the rHGH or Tesa, at least until they are clear.

 

[AlexDavis43]

I have searched this thread, searched the whole forum, and searched a lot on Reddit. I understand there is probably not a definitive answer here. Is there an increased cancer risk running daily "replacement" doses of HGH (1-3iu) for general well being, fat loss and healing?

I'm not talking about growing existing cancers or tumors.

Cancer runs in my family including losing 3 grandparents and my mom. My PSA is low and I get checked by a dermatologist every other year as my mom died of melanoma.

Im 44 years old, my last IGF value was 112.

1-3 IU isn't going to do much of any of that so might as well skip it.

hGH is not a game changer like steroids.

 

[KOArtist]

I noticed regarding tren synergy that “bodybuilding doses”(>250mg) were mentioned, but just a little would be better than none, yes?

 

[DescriptivistWug]

@Type-IIx. Great information. HGH timing has always bothered me so much. My main objective is lipolysis, and there’s so much conflicting information out there. I know you generally don't comment on nutrition intake and timing (based on your replies here), but I just want to make sure I'm not screwing this up in a big way.

This is what I am currently planning to do:

- 3 PM: Rice, protein, and some fat. I need this for energy going into my workout.
- 4 PM (T+0): Large subq HGH bolus (6–9 IU).
- 5 PM (T+1): Start my workout (90–120 minutes). Mostly high rep, medium-intensity isolation, with some compound movements.
- During workout: Water and protein shake (30 g protein, 4 g carbs).
- 7 PM (T+3): 30–45 minutes of LISS cardio (Elliptical or Stairmaster). I try to keep my heart rate under 150.
- 8 PM (T+4): Dinner. Carbs, protein, and some good amount of fat ngl

I could delay dinner to 9 PM (T+5) to maximize the use of released FFA as an energy source. But two things stop me:

1. I am worried that if I don't replenish with carbs and protein soon after an intense workout, it will affect my muscle building.
2. I start to feel absolutely drained if I don't eat soon after.

I can also drink protein shake right after LISS cardio (~8 PM), and keep dinner late (around 9:30 PM). Or, I can eat just after coming back from the gym but eat only carbs and protein (minimal fat).

So, in a nutshell, I am trying to avoid eating at peak serum FFA concentration (afraid that it might blunt FFA utilization). But I also don’t want to starve my body after an extensive workout. Am I overthinking this?

 

[drbeefsupreme]

I've been following this for the last month or so, though with IM injection at 3iu. While the dates don't line up perfectly, I've been getting DEXA scans 10 weeks apart with the last one a couple days ago and I've been dropping almost 1% body fat per week while also putting on lean mass (I am getting back into shape after a former life as an enhanced competitive strongman)! I'm also on TRT and reta. The fasted cardio aspect has been 45-120 minutes 7 days/week, though with 1-2 days of that walking. So I aint slouching, but I'm still amazed.

Huuuge motivation to keep going - I'm getting married in October, goal is to have abs by then!

 

[Ghoul]

I've been following this for the last month or so, though with IM injection at 3iu. While the dates don't line up perfectly, I've been getting DEXA scans 10 weeks apart with the last one a couple days ago and I've been dropping almost 1% body fat per week while also putting on lean mass (I am getting back into shape after a former life as an enhanced competitive strongman)! I'm also on TRT and reta. The fasted cardio aspect has been 45-120 minutes 7 days/week, though with 1-2 days of that walking. So I aint slouching, but I'm still amazed.

Huuuge motivation to keep going - I'm getting married in October, goal is to have abs by then!

Very motivating I'm sure.

What's your protocol? Single AM injection? Which brand of rHGH?

Any sides?

 

[drbeefsupreme]

Yup, single IM injection using a pen in ventroglute first thing in the morning. I have been using Optitropin. It is my first run with GH. My weight more or less looked like it stalled for about 6-8 weeks as I dealt with water weight but I trusted it was working!

I'm doing it totally fasted though, so I guess not exactly following the protocol. This thread helped me understand that eating a small amount with the GH will increase IGF-1 more, and for the moment being new to GH, cutting weight, and more focused on lipolysis, I'd rather have lower IGF-1 (another reason for me to do IM vs subq since the IGF-1 response is ~90% IM vs subq iirc). Got bloods taken same day as DEXA so I'll be able to compare with what I was getting with 2iu subq at night soon.

Only real sides were bloating and a tiny bit of carpal tunnel.

I'm starting to get a general sense of well-being for the morning/afternoon after taking the GH. Seems to be improving over time, or maybe I'm just becoming better at noticing it. Wish it lasted longer, but I'm not taking GH for feelz, its just a nice bonus.

 

[rexy]

I noticed regarding tren synergy that “bodybuilding doses”(>250mg) were mentioned, but just a little would be better than none, yes?

Yes, even 100-150mg is more than enough. I've done that myself over the last month and noticed continued leanness whilst my weight has continued to climb.

My HGH dose has been 9-10IU each day, and I swapped to IM injections exclusively after seeing the recent research that Ghoul went through - which Scott Stevenson also did a podcast episode about on YouTube.

 

[Type-IIx]

@Type-IIx. Great information. HGH timing has always bothered me so much. My main objective is lipolysis, and there’s so much conflicting information out there. I know you generally don't comment on nutrition intake and timing (based on your replies here), but I just want to make sure I'm not screwing this up in a big way.

This is what I am currently planning to do:

- 3 PM: Rice, protein, and some fat. I need this for energy going into my workout.
- 4 PM (T+0): Large subq HGH bolus (6–9 IU).
- 5 PM (T+1): Start my workout (90–120 minutes). Mostly high rep, medium-intensity isolation, with some compound movements.
- During workout: Water and protein shake (30 g protein, 4 g carbs).
- 7 PM (T+3): 30–45 minutes of LISS cardio (Elliptical or Stairmaster). I try to keep my heart rate under 150.
- 8 PM (T+4): Dinner. Carbs, protein, and some good amount of fat ngl

I could delay dinner to 9 PM (T+5) to maximize the use of released FFA as an energy source. But two things stop me:

1. I am worried that if I don't replenish with carbs and protein soon after an intense workout, it will affect my muscle building.
2. I start to feel absolutely drained if I don't eat soon after.

I can also drink protein shake right after LISS cardio (~8 PM), and keep dinner late (around 9:30 PM). Or, I can eat just after coming back from the gym but eat only carbs and protein (minimal fat).

So, in a nutshell, I am trying to avoid eating at peak serum FFA concentration (afraid that it might blunt FFA utilization). But I also don’t want to starve my body after an extensive workout. Am I overthinking this?

You’re not overthinking it if you’re < 10% body fat and want to see a substantial body comp difference! The closer you adhere to the original post, an actual article from Bolus, the better results you’ll achieve!

 

[OldGHGuy]

You’re not overthinking it if you’re < 10% body fat and want to see a substantial body comp difference! The closer you adhere to the original post, an actual article from Bolus, the better results you’ll achieve!

Good to see you brother! Whats with all this IM talk for GH? I heard another popular pundit talking about AAS and GH (water & oil) in the same syringe, daily, IM. Just when one thinks they have it all figured out....

 

[Ghoul]

Good to see you brother! Whats with all this IM talk for GH? I heard another popular pundit talking about AAS and GH (water & oil) in the same syringe, daily, IM. Just when one thinks they have it all figured out....

I'm not answering for @Type-IIx on the merits of IM GH, but anyone advising mixing oil and water in a single injection is dangerously misinformed. All that's going to do is create an emulsion, which is something medical pros know is risky and to be avoided. Keep oil and water based compounds seperate.

 

[Photon]

The studies Sampei has linked suggest that it depletes muscle of glykogen and more resulting in flatness, less strength, endurance and longer time to recover.

So by switching i wanna see if i can notice any strength coming back, feeling fuller, changes in glucose throughout the day and possible weight change

Did you get around to testing this?

 

[Type-IIx]

Good to see you brother! Whats with all this IM talk for GH? I heard another popular pundit talking about AAS and GH (water & oil) in the same syringe, daily, IM. Just when one thinks they have it all figured out....

There are IM protocols in Bolus, check out the Hypertrophy protocol and some of the IGF-I combinations. I think you have it right?

 

[Nidus]

Did you get around to testing this?

Yes, no difference at all. Bloodwork whatsoever. Study wise last i saw showed Jardiance to be 1% better at pushing out more excess glucose but no changes in bloodwork or feels or looks when swapping around

 

[Ateam2023]

Yes, no difference at all. Bloodwork whatsoever. Study wise last i saw showed Jardiance to be 1% better at pushing out more excess glucose but no changes in bloodwork or feels or looks when swapping around

are we talking im vs sub q here? just so im clear? tia

 

[drbeefsupreme]

Here's my DEXA scan results. You can see more details on where I'm at in my member intro thread, but TL;DR recent return after 5 year break from lifting and most fitness in general. So the lean mass gains are all noob gains from "dormant strength".

I am not following the protocol in the thread exactly since I'm taking it IM completely fasted, but I did purchase and read Bolus before deciding on my protocol.

05/14 was a few days after I started GH at 2iu subq each night. I put on 5-6 pounds of water weight in the day or two before the scan, lol. A couple weeks after this is when I moved from 40 mins of fasted cardio 2-3x a week to 45-120 mins 6-7x a week, soon after titrated to 3iu, and then probably early-mid June is when I moved to IM injection in the morning 1-1.5 hours before cardio.

EDIT: It's telling me there's a problem when I try to upload the image... standby