@pumpingiron22 and others who helped with this thread. THANK YOU. I have done cycles before and never did pct before. When I was young and dumb. I want to do it right from now on. This thread has taught me a lot about pct and bloods
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
A guide line for all new members?
- Thread starter pumpingiron22
- Start date
T3 FAQ: Everything you need to know about T3 by BigAndy69
Posted by BigAndy69 on elite;
Disclaimer
T3 is not a drug that should be taken lightly. It's a very potent thyroid hormone. Messing with your natural hormone levels is very dangerous and unpredictable. The potential for complications is very high, and abuse can lead to thyroid disease and low thyroid output not only immediately upon discontinuation, but also later in life.
There is no such thing as safe use of T3 outside of a medical setting. There is only "safer" use. Use at your own risk.
Introduction: What is T3 and what are the side effects?
This article is pushing 2000 words, so here's a link for anyone who's interested: http://arbl.cvmbs.colostate.edu/hbo...roid/index.html
What about T4?
Bodybuilders should not use T4. It's a much weaker drug designed for long term use in patients with chronic thyroid disease. 100mcg of T4 corresponds to 25mcg of T3 and offers equivalent thyroid support; however, this does not translate to equal weight loss benefits. It has made itself on sources' lists simply because it is widely available and extremely cheap.
Is T3 catabolic?
It may shock many people to know that T3 is NOT catabolic per se. Corticosteroids are catabolic drugs that attack muscle tissue directly; T3 does not. It is a very potent calorie burner and it does not discriminate between carbohydrates, protein and fat. Unlike DNP, it has no protein sparing properties. T3 is also more likely to burn muscle than fat in lean users (10-12% BF), but this can be said for any extreme drop in caloric intake and uptake such as starvation diets (Caloric intake <10 X BW).
Muscle loss can be avoided with the use of anabolic agents. T3's alleged catabolic properties have become legendary. Excessive amounts of T3 (more than 75mcg), will have a very strong calorie burning effect, and since some bodybuilder use 150 mcg, it's easy to see why such misinformation has been so prevalent. The average bodybuilder will not need several grams of steroids to counter a reasonable dose of T3. There is no need to use more than 75mcg-100mcg. Going beyond this dose will cause more harm than good, as massive doses of steroids need to be used to counter the muscle loss, further stressing the body for minimal, if any additional benefits.
I think I've lost 20 lbs of muscle!
T3 can also give your muscles an extremely flat look and very soft feel. This side effect of extreme glycogen depletion can have a very profound psychological impact in bodybuilders. It often feels and looks like muscle loss when it's simply a lack of muscle "pump" because of restricted blood flow to that area and depletion of glycogen stores in muscles. Generally, carbohydrate loading does not solve this problem. "Pumping up" (or training for that matter) brings more blood into the muscles and is a temporary albeit effective solution. Clenbuterol and certain steroids can offset the lack of muscle pump because these drugs tend to "harden up" users by bringing more blood into to the muscles.
Are steroids absolutely necessary on T3?
This is very dependent on the user. Diet must be flawless, only reasonable doses should be considered (50mcg) and the user must know his body to a tee. Those who don't know what that last statement entails should not even consider T3. This is a veteran drug and should not be used by bodybuilders who are new to the game or do not have a deep understanding of how there bodies react to certain foods and training philosophies.
T3 can be used alone or better yet with Clenbuterol without fear of muscle loss in overly fat people (20-25% BF). This is not recommended, however, since these people will generally return to overeating upon discontinuation of their cycle and may likely end up with more weight than they started with.
How should I eat on T3?
Protein should be kept at 1.5-2g per lb of bodyweight. The majority of protein should come from lean meats. Shakes can be used, but should not be heavily relied on as they are more likely to be turned into glucose and used immediately for energy. Caloric reduction should come from carbs and fat only.
What is T3 used for?
Fat-loss: The main use for T3.
Increase Nutrient Uptake: Not very well known, but this is a great use for T3. Doses between 6.25-12.5mcg do not shutdown endogenous thyroid output. T3 at this dose can be used to add LBM and help in keeping the fat off. When doses are kept at 6.25-12.5mcg, muscles are full and rock hard, and energy is through the roof. At these light doses, it's common for people to go to the bathroom 5-6 times a day because there bodies are making more efficient use of the food they eat.
Can I permanently shutdown my Thyroid?
Simply put, NO, it can't happen. Natural thyroid production will be completely shutdown for a good period of time after using T3, but it will eventually recover. Bruce Kneller posted this study on the Testosterone website:
N Engl J Med 1975 Oct 2;293(14):681-4
Recovery of pituitary thyrotropic function after withdrawal of prolonged thyroid-suppression therapy.
Vagenakis AG, Braverman LE, Azizi F, Portinay GI, Ingbar SH.
The pattern of thyrotropin secretion was analyzed in seven euthyroid women, before and after withdrawal of long-term thyroid hormone, by serial measurements of thyroid 131l uptake, serum thyroxine, tri-iodothyronine, and thyrotropin concentrations, and the response to thyrotropin-releasing hormone. During exogenous hormone administration, 131l uptake was suppressed, and serum thyrotropin concentrations before and after administration of thyrotropin-releasing hormone were undetectable.
After withdrawal of exogenous hormone, thyrotropin secretory function was transiently impaired, as indicated by undetectable basal thyrotropin concentrations together with absence of response to thyrotropin-releasing hormone, and subsequently by normal values of basal thyrotropin concentration and normal responses to releasing hormone while serum thyroxine and tri-iodothyronine concentrations were subnormal.
Decreased thyrotropin reserve persisted for two to five weeks. Detectable values of serum thyrotropin (less than 1.2 muU per milliliter) and a normal 131l uptake usually occurred concurrently in two to three weeks. Serum thyroxine concentration returned to normal at least four weeks after hormone withdrawal.
Basically, it is extremely important to eat cleanly and keep up with cardio for at least 4 weeks and up to 6 weeks following a T3 cycle. It's also very important to ramp down properly and not use any drug that have an effect on metabolism and thyroid function, i.e. Clen, Ephedrine, Steroids, DNP, T2…
Calories should be kept in check, even lowered in some cases, and High Intensity Cardio is a must; at least 20mins, 3times a week. L-Tyrosine can be used at 1-3g a day to help thyroid function, but its effectiveness is debatable.
Switching to a higher carb, lower fat and lower protein diet is crucial in helping your thyroid bounce back after a cycle. A three-day carb up would be a good idea following a T3 cycle. This study demonstrates how important carbohydrates are for normal thyroid function. (Note: Some people seem to think of carbs as Lucky Charms and toast when there are far better carb choices that won't make you look like the Michelin Man.)
Dietary-induced alterations in thyroid hormone metabolism during overnutrition.
Danforth E Jr, Horton ES, O'Connell M, Sims EA, Burger AG, Ingbar SH, Braverman L, Vagenakis AG.
Diet-induced alterations in thyroid hormone concentrations have been found in studies of long-term (7 mo) overfeeding in man (the Vermont Study). In these studies of weight gain in normal weight volunteers, increased calories were required to maintain weight after gain over and above that predicted from their increased size. This was associated with increased concentrations of triiodothyronine (T3). No change in the caloric requirement to maintain weight or concentrations of T3 was found after long-term (3 mo) fat overfeeding. In studies of short-term overfeeding (3 wk) the serum concentrations of T3 and its ********* clearance were increased, resulting in a marked increase in the production rate of T3 irrespective of the composition of the diet overfed (carbohydrate 29.6 +/- 2.1 to 54.0 +/- 3.3, fat 28.2 +/- 3.7 to 49.1 +/- 3.4, and protein 31.2 +/- 2.1 to 53.2 +/- 3.7 microgram/d per 70 kg). Thyroxine production was unaltered by overfeeding (93.7 +/- 6.5 vs. 89.2 +/- 4.9 microgram/d per 70 kg). It is still speculative whether these dietary-induced alterations in thyroid hormone metabolism are responsible for the simultaneously increased expenditure of energy in these subjects and therefore might represent an important physiological adaptation in times of caloric affluence. During the weight-maintenance phases of the long-term overfeeding studies, concentrations of T3 were increased when carbohydrate was isocalorically substituted for fat in the diet. In short-term studies the peripheral concentrations of T3 and reverse T3 found during fasting were mimicked in direction, if not in degree, with equal or hypocaloric diets restricted in carbohydrate were fed. It is apparent from these studies that the caloric content as well as the composition of the diet, specifically, the carbohydrate content, can be important factors in regulating the peripheral metabolism of thyroid hormones.
A post cycle crash is inevitable; this is the time when your diet really matters.
So how do I cycle this stuff?
T3/Clen/Anavar Cycle
Anavar is the single best steroid to stack with T3. Its anti catabolic properties are unmatched and it will not shut you down. There's nothing like simultaneous sex hormone and thyroid hormone shutdown; I bet it feels great. Primobolan at 200mg a week would be a good substitute since it doesn't shut you down. Dbol at 10-15mg taken in the morning can also be used but Arimidex must be included with the Dbol. T3 increases the amount of beta-3-adregenic receptors (by 500%!) in white adipose tissue, i.e. the fat that covers muscle. Since clen exerts most of its effect on the same receptors; the combination with T3 would yield quite a strong synergistic effect. T3/Clen may be too much for the heart in some people.
T3:
12.5mcg for 5-7 days (optional but recommended)
37.5mcg for 5 days
75mcg for 15 days
50mcg for 5 days
37.5mcg for 5 days
25mcg for 5 days
12.5 mcg for 5 days
6.25mcg for 5-7 days
Clen:
30 days: 60-120mcg ED. Use clen from the first 37.5mcg dose to the last 25mcg dose. Ketotifen will make you more sensitive to clenbuterol so doses should be adjust accordingly.
Ketotifen:
Stacked with Clenbuterol, 2mg ED. This drug may not be an option for some people since it can make them extremely hungry. If this is the case, Clen should be used 2 weeks on 2 weeks off.
Anavar:
Oxandrin;
15mg ED with 37.5mcg of T3,
25mg ED with 75mcg of T3,
20mg ED with 50mcg of T3.
Here's a more sensitive approach that can be used between cycles since it doesn't include AS:
BigAndy69's T3 Cycle:
The cycle can actually be used to add muscle mass or drop body fat depending on caloric intake. For gaining muscle mass, the Yohimbine and Anastrozole are not necessary.
W1-W4:
T3: 12.5mg ED
Clen: 60-100mcg ED
Ketotifen: 2mg ED
Anastrozole: 0.5mg ED
Yohimbine: 10-15mg ED (maybe too much to handle in some)
Carb/Pro/Fat:
20-30/50-60/20
ALA: 1500mg ED
Taurine: 3g ED
W5:
T3: 6.25mg ED
L-Tyrosine: 1-2g ED
ALA: 2500mg ED
Taurine: 3g ED
Carb/Pro/Fat:
50-60/20-30/20
(High Intensity Cardio)
W6:
ALA: 1500mg ED
Carb/Pro/Fat:
40/40/20
(High Intensity Cardio)
BigAndy69's T3 Post Cycle Therapy (4-6 weeks):
Initial 3 day carb up:
Carbs: 1.75g X BW
Protein: 0.75g X BW
Fat: 0.25g X BW
Supplements:
L-Tyrosine: 1-3g ED
ALA: 1500mg ED
Flaxseed oil + Fish oil: 20g total ED
Diet: >50% Carbs/ 30% Protein/ <20% Fat, calories at maintenance (+ or - 12 X BW)
High intensity cardio: 75-80% of Max Heart Rate; 15-20 min 3-4 times a week.
No Steroids, Ephedrine, Clen, T2, DNP, or anything that has an effect on metabolism. Moderate doses of caffeine can be used before cardio.
Anything Else I should know?
T3 should be taken on an empty stomach, in the morning. If more than 50mcg is being taken, then it should be split through the day.
BigAndy69
References:
N Engl J Med 1975 Oct 2;293(14):681-4
Recovery of pituitary thyrotropic function after withdrawal of prolonged thyroid-suppression therapy.
Vagenakis AG, Braverman LE, Azizi F, Portinay GI, Ingbar SH.
Dietary-induced alterations in thyroid hormone metabolism during overnutrition.
Danforth E Jr, Horton ES, O'Connell M, Sims EA, Burger AG, Ingbar SH, Braverman L, Vagenakis AG.
A paradigm of experimentally induced mild hyperthyroidism: effects on nitrogen balance, body composition, and energy expenditure in healthy young men.
J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1997 Mar;82(3):765-70 (ISSN: 0021-972X)
Lovejoy JC; Smith SR; Bray GA; De Lany JP; Rood JC; Gouvier D; Windhauser M; Ryan DH; Macchiavelli R; Tulley R
Pennington Biomedical Research Center, Louisiana State University, Baton Rouge 70808, USA. lovejoj@mhs.pbrc.edu.
Metabolism 1981 Aug;30(8):783-91
Whole body leucine and lysine metabolism studied with [1-13C]leucine and [alpha-15N]lysine: response in healthy young men given excess energy intake.
Motil KJ, Bier DM, Matthews DE, Burke JF, Young VR.
Rubio A, et al. "Thyroid hormone and norepinephrine signaling in brown adipose tissue. II: Differential effects of thyroid hormone on beta 3-adrenergic receptors in brown and white adipose tissue." Endocrinology 1995 Aug;136(8):3277-84
Posted by BigAndy69 on elite;
Disclaimer
T3 is not a drug that should be taken lightly. It's a very potent thyroid hormone. Messing with your natural hormone levels is very dangerous and unpredictable. The potential for complications is very high, and abuse can lead to thyroid disease and low thyroid output not only immediately upon discontinuation, but also later in life.
There is no such thing as safe use of T3 outside of a medical setting. There is only "safer" use. Use at your own risk.
Introduction: What is T3 and what are the side effects?
This article is pushing 2000 words, so here's a link for anyone who's interested: http://arbl.cvmbs.colostate.edu/hbo...roid/index.html
What about T4?
Bodybuilders should not use T4. It's a much weaker drug designed for long term use in patients with chronic thyroid disease. 100mcg of T4 corresponds to 25mcg of T3 and offers equivalent thyroid support; however, this does not translate to equal weight loss benefits. It has made itself on sources' lists simply because it is widely available and extremely cheap.
Is T3 catabolic?
It may shock many people to know that T3 is NOT catabolic per se. Corticosteroids are catabolic drugs that attack muscle tissue directly; T3 does not. It is a very potent calorie burner and it does not discriminate between carbohydrates, protein and fat. Unlike DNP, it has no protein sparing properties. T3 is also more likely to burn muscle than fat in lean users (10-12% BF), but this can be said for any extreme drop in caloric intake and uptake such as starvation diets (Caloric intake <10 X BW).
Muscle loss can be avoided with the use of anabolic agents. T3's alleged catabolic properties have become legendary. Excessive amounts of T3 (more than 75mcg), will have a very strong calorie burning effect, and since some bodybuilder use 150 mcg, it's easy to see why such misinformation has been so prevalent. The average bodybuilder will not need several grams of steroids to counter a reasonable dose of T3. There is no need to use more than 75mcg-100mcg. Going beyond this dose will cause more harm than good, as massive doses of steroids need to be used to counter the muscle loss, further stressing the body for minimal, if any additional benefits.
I think I've lost 20 lbs of muscle!
T3 can also give your muscles an extremely flat look and very soft feel. This side effect of extreme glycogen depletion can have a very profound psychological impact in bodybuilders. It often feels and looks like muscle loss when it's simply a lack of muscle "pump" because of restricted blood flow to that area and depletion of glycogen stores in muscles. Generally, carbohydrate loading does not solve this problem. "Pumping up" (or training for that matter) brings more blood into the muscles and is a temporary albeit effective solution. Clenbuterol and certain steroids can offset the lack of muscle pump because these drugs tend to "harden up" users by bringing more blood into to the muscles.
Are steroids absolutely necessary on T3?
This is very dependent on the user. Diet must be flawless, only reasonable doses should be considered (50mcg) and the user must know his body to a tee. Those who don't know what that last statement entails should not even consider T3. This is a veteran drug and should not be used by bodybuilders who are new to the game or do not have a deep understanding of how there bodies react to certain foods and training philosophies.
T3 can be used alone or better yet with Clenbuterol without fear of muscle loss in overly fat people (20-25% BF). This is not recommended, however, since these people will generally return to overeating upon discontinuation of their cycle and may likely end up with more weight than they started with.
How should I eat on T3?
Protein should be kept at 1.5-2g per lb of bodyweight. The majority of protein should come from lean meats. Shakes can be used, but should not be heavily relied on as they are more likely to be turned into glucose and used immediately for energy. Caloric reduction should come from carbs and fat only.
What is T3 used for?
Fat-loss: The main use for T3.
Increase Nutrient Uptake: Not very well known, but this is a great use for T3. Doses between 6.25-12.5mcg do not shutdown endogenous thyroid output. T3 at this dose can be used to add LBM and help in keeping the fat off. When doses are kept at 6.25-12.5mcg, muscles are full and rock hard, and energy is through the roof. At these light doses, it's common for people to go to the bathroom 5-6 times a day because there bodies are making more efficient use of the food they eat.
Can I permanently shutdown my Thyroid?
Simply put, NO, it can't happen. Natural thyroid production will be completely shutdown for a good period of time after using T3, but it will eventually recover. Bruce Kneller posted this study on the Testosterone website:
N Engl J Med 1975 Oct 2;293(14):681-4
Recovery of pituitary thyrotropic function after withdrawal of prolonged thyroid-suppression therapy.
Vagenakis AG, Braverman LE, Azizi F, Portinay GI, Ingbar SH.
The pattern of thyrotropin secretion was analyzed in seven euthyroid women, before and after withdrawal of long-term thyroid hormone, by serial measurements of thyroid 131l uptake, serum thyroxine, tri-iodothyronine, and thyrotropin concentrations, and the response to thyrotropin-releasing hormone. During exogenous hormone administration, 131l uptake was suppressed, and serum thyrotropin concentrations before and after administration of thyrotropin-releasing hormone were undetectable.
After withdrawal of exogenous hormone, thyrotropin secretory function was transiently impaired, as indicated by undetectable basal thyrotropin concentrations together with absence of response to thyrotropin-releasing hormone, and subsequently by normal values of basal thyrotropin concentration and normal responses to releasing hormone while serum thyroxine and tri-iodothyronine concentrations were subnormal.
Decreased thyrotropin reserve persisted for two to five weeks. Detectable values of serum thyrotropin (less than 1.2 muU per milliliter) and a normal 131l uptake usually occurred concurrently in two to three weeks. Serum thyroxine concentration returned to normal at least four weeks after hormone withdrawal.
Basically, it is extremely important to eat cleanly and keep up with cardio for at least 4 weeks and up to 6 weeks following a T3 cycle. It's also very important to ramp down properly and not use any drug that have an effect on metabolism and thyroid function, i.e. Clen, Ephedrine, Steroids, DNP, T2…
Calories should be kept in check, even lowered in some cases, and High Intensity Cardio is a must; at least 20mins, 3times a week. L-Tyrosine can be used at 1-3g a day to help thyroid function, but its effectiveness is debatable.
Switching to a higher carb, lower fat and lower protein diet is crucial in helping your thyroid bounce back after a cycle. A three-day carb up would be a good idea following a T3 cycle. This study demonstrates how important carbohydrates are for normal thyroid function. (Note: Some people seem to think of carbs as Lucky Charms and toast when there are far better carb choices that won't make you look like the Michelin Man.)
Dietary-induced alterations in thyroid hormone metabolism during overnutrition.
Danforth E Jr, Horton ES, O'Connell M, Sims EA, Burger AG, Ingbar SH, Braverman L, Vagenakis AG.
Diet-induced alterations in thyroid hormone concentrations have been found in studies of long-term (7 mo) overfeeding in man (the Vermont Study). In these studies of weight gain in normal weight volunteers, increased calories were required to maintain weight after gain over and above that predicted from their increased size. This was associated with increased concentrations of triiodothyronine (T3). No change in the caloric requirement to maintain weight or concentrations of T3 was found after long-term (3 mo) fat overfeeding. In studies of short-term overfeeding (3 wk) the serum concentrations of T3 and its ********* clearance were increased, resulting in a marked increase in the production rate of T3 irrespective of the composition of the diet overfed (carbohydrate 29.6 +/- 2.1 to 54.0 +/- 3.3, fat 28.2 +/- 3.7 to 49.1 +/- 3.4, and protein 31.2 +/- 2.1 to 53.2 +/- 3.7 microgram/d per 70 kg). Thyroxine production was unaltered by overfeeding (93.7 +/- 6.5 vs. 89.2 +/- 4.9 microgram/d per 70 kg). It is still speculative whether these dietary-induced alterations in thyroid hormone metabolism are responsible for the simultaneously increased expenditure of energy in these subjects and therefore might represent an important physiological adaptation in times of caloric affluence. During the weight-maintenance phases of the long-term overfeeding studies, concentrations of T3 were increased when carbohydrate was isocalorically substituted for fat in the diet. In short-term studies the peripheral concentrations of T3 and reverse T3 found during fasting were mimicked in direction, if not in degree, with equal or hypocaloric diets restricted in carbohydrate were fed. It is apparent from these studies that the caloric content as well as the composition of the diet, specifically, the carbohydrate content, can be important factors in regulating the peripheral metabolism of thyroid hormones.
A post cycle crash is inevitable; this is the time when your diet really matters.
So how do I cycle this stuff?
T3/Clen/Anavar Cycle
Anavar is the single best steroid to stack with T3. Its anti catabolic properties are unmatched and it will not shut you down. There's nothing like simultaneous sex hormone and thyroid hormone shutdown; I bet it feels great. Primobolan at 200mg a week would be a good substitute since it doesn't shut you down. Dbol at 10-15mg taken in the morning can also be used but Arimidex must be included with the Dbol. T3 increases the amount of beta-3-adregenic receptors (by 500%!) in white adipose tissue, i.e. the fat that covers muscle. Since clen exerts most of its effect on the same receptors; the combination with T3 would yield quite a strong synergistic effect. T3/Clen may be too much for the heart in some people.
T3:
12.5mcg for 5-7 days (optional but recommended)
37.5mcg for 5 days
75mcg for 15 days
50mcg for 5 days
37.5mcg for 5 days
25mcg for 5 days
12.5 mcg for 5 days
6.25mcg for 5-7 days
Clen:
30 days: 60-120mcg ED. Use clen from the first 37.5mcg dose to the last 25mcg dose. Ketotifen will make you more sensitive to clenbuterol so doses should be adjust accordingly.
Ketotifen:
Stacked with Clenbuterol, 2mg ED. This drug may not be an option for some people since it can make them extremely hungry. If this is the case, Clen should be used 2 weeks on 2 weeks off.
Anavar:
Oxandrin;
15mg ED with 37.5mcg of T3,
25mg ED with 75mcg of T3,
20mg ED with 50mcg of T3.
Here's a more sensitive approach that can be used between cycles since it doesn't include AS:
BigAndy69's T3 Cycle:
The cycle can actually be used to add muscle mass or drop body fat depending on caloric intake. For gaining muscle mass, the Yohimbine and Anastrozole are not necessary.
W1-W4:
T3: 12.5mg ED
Clen: 60-100mcg ED
Ketotifen: 2mg ED
Anastrozole: 0.5mg ED
Yohimbine: 10-15mg ED (maybe too much to handle in some)
Carb/Pro/Fat:
20-30/50-60/20
ALA: 1500mg ED
Taurine: 3g ED
W5:
T3: 6.25mg ED
L-Tyrosine: 1-2g ED
ALA: 2500mg ED
Taurine: 3g ED
Carb/Pro/Fat:
50-60/20-30/20
(High Intensity Cardio)
W6:
ALA: 1500mg ED
Carb/Pro/Fat:
40/40/20
(High Intensity Cardio)
BigAndy69's T3 Post Cycle Therapy (4-6 weeks):
Initial 3 day carb up:
Carbs: 1.75g X BW
Protein: 0.75g X BW
Fat: 0.25g X BW
Supplements:
L-Tyrosine: 1-3g ED
ALA: 1500mg ED
Flaxseed oil + Fish oil: 20g total ED
Diet: >50% Carbs/ 30% Protein/ <20% Fat, calories at maintenance (+ or - 12 X BW)
High intensity cardio: 75-80% of Max Heart Rate; 15-20 min 3-4 times a week.
No Steroids, Ephedrine, Clen, T2, DNP, or anything that has an effect on metabolism. Moderate doses of caffeine can be used before cardio.
Anything Else I should know?
T3 should be taken on an empty stomach, in the morning. If more than 50mcg is being taken, then it should be split through the day.
BigAndy69
References:
N Engl J Med 1975 Oct 2;293(14):681-4
Recovery of pituitary thyrotropic function after withdrawal of prolonged thyroid-suppression therapy.
Vagenakis AG, Braverman LE, Azizi F, Portinay GI, Ingbar SH.
Dietary-induced alterations in thyroid hormone metabolism during overnutrition.
Danforth E Jr, Horton ES, O'Connell M, Sims EA, Burger AG, Ingbar SH, Braverman L, Vagenakis AG.
A paradigm of experimentally induced mild hyperthyroidism: effects on nitrogen balance, body composition, and energy expenditure in healthy young men.
J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1997 Mar;82(3):765-70 (ISSN: 0021-972X)
Lovejoy JC; Smith SR; Bray GA; De Lany JP; Rood JC; Gouvier D; Windhauser M; Ryan DH; Macchiavelli R; Tulley R
Pennington Biomedical Research Center, Louisiana State University, Baton Rouge 70808, USA. lovejoj@mhs.pbrc.edu.
Metabolism 1981 Aug;30(8):783-91
Whole body leucine and lysine metabolism studied with [1-13C]leucine and [alpha-15N]lysine: response in healthy young men given excess energy intake.
Motil KJ, Bier DM, Matthews DE, Burke JF, Young VR.
Rubio A, et al. "Thyroid hormone and norepinephrine signaling in brown adipose tissue. II: Differential effects of thyroid hormone on beta 3-adrenergic receptors in brown and white adipose tissue." Endocrinology 1995 Aug;136(8):3277-84
Old school Bumb
TheOne
New Member
Thank you Pumping Iron and all others who have contributed to these guides they have been an invaluable source in filling some knowledge gaps I had pertaining to proper post cycles and injection methods/complications. I have been researching on and off for a couple years the ins and outs of a variety of injectable cycles but have always avoided needle usage and these guides help alleviate some concerns I have had. Good looking out and thanks again for all the hard work putting these guides together.
Harry Houdini
New Member
Great post! I really enjoyed the material!
Yeah, Houdini, you might say that Meso provides a 'great escape' for us members?!
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Bigfrog90
New Member
Thanks
Bumb all new people read!
Frank the tank 456
New Member
Good stuff!!!!
Walter33
New Member
See I fucked up because I did a PH when I was 19 lol. But very good info.
ronin17
New Member
Again, thank you @pumpingiron22 . I really appreciate all you do.
We also need to have clear rules for people under 18...they should NOT even bother signing up.
THE VERY BASIC GUIDE TO GHRP/GHRH PEPTIDES
By http://www.teampscarb.co.uk/index.php/author/admin/http://www.teampscarb.co.uk/index.php/the-very-basic-guide-to-ghrpghrh-peptides/http://www.teampscarb.co.uk/index.php/the-very-basic-guide-to-ghrpghrh-peptides/#commentshttp://www.teampscarb.co.uk/index.php/category/articles/
The newish supplement to be used by Bodybuilders are Peptides that naturally pulse GH from the body, the problem is that many make it all to confusing much more than it needs to be so i thought it would be a good article to write to try and clear some of the confusion on the subject.
if you prefer the science and long boring words to describe things this article is not for you
so here is a very basic guide, it does not contain any real detail to the science behind the need etc……
you need to look at 2 types of peptides:
GHRP – this group’s main types are GHRP-2, GHRP-6, Ipamorelin, Hexarelin (there are others but these are the most common and effective)
GHRH – this groups main type is Mod GRF 1-29 (sometimes called CJC1295 without DAC)
What do they do:
They release and amplify a natural pulse of GH from your body
GHRP release a pulse of GH
GHRH release and amplify this pulse
Combining both peptides gives more than double the effect of either alone due to the synergy they have it would be foolish in my opinion to use either alone.
GHRP in detail:
GHRP-6:
Growth hormone releasing peptide-6 (GHRP-6) is in the category of drugs known as GH Secretagogues. This category of drugs includes GHRP-2, GHRP-6, Ipamorelin, and Hexarelin. Their primary function is to stimulate the pituitary gland to produce more Growth Hormone. GHRPs have a 2-fold mechanism of action, in that they cause an increase in GH through amplifying the natural growth hormone releasing hormone (GHRH) signal transduction pathway, as well as by suppressing the actions of somatostatin.
GHRP-6 is a 1st generation GHRP and is primarily used in the BB’ing community for two reasons, which are 1) GH release and 2) Appetite stimulation. If one is considering using this peptide for GH release, the individual should consider whether or not the accompanying appetite stimulation is a beneficial or negative characteristic in their current circumstances. In individuals who struggle with appetite issues and have trouble eating enough food to meet their daily caloric requirements, this peptide can prove to be a great addition to their program. For those on contest diets or who are trying to lean out, they may want to forego this peptide in exchange for a GHRP absent of this effect.
Common benefits of GH (GHRP-6) include:
* Reductions in body fat
* Increased lean mass.
* Increased collagen production
* Improved sleep
* Increased cellular repair
* An increase in IGF-1
* Increases in bone density
Common side effects of GH (GHRP-6) include:
* Water retention
* Tightness and/or carpel tunnel-like symptoms in the wrist/hand.
* Numbness and tingling in the extremities
* A decrease in insulin sensitivity
* Tiredness
Recommendations for use:
* GHRP-6 should be administered on an empty stomach. No food should be consumed for 15-20 minutes post-inject, if maximum GH release is desired.
* When using GHRP-6 for GH release, the average dosing range is between 100-150 mcg per inject. Dosing frequency is between 1-4X per day.
* In order to elicit maximal elevations in GH, GHRP-6 should be combined with a GHRH, such as ModGRF1-29 (also known as CJC1295 w/o dac).
* If used for appetite stimulation, the common dosing range for GHRP-6 is between 100-300 per inject, as needed.
GHRP-2:
Growth hormone releasing peptide-2 (GHRP-2) is in the category of drugs known as GH secretagogues. This category of drugs includes GHRP-2, GHRP-6, Ipamorelin, and Hexarelin. Their primary function is to stimulate the pituitary gland to produce more growth hormone. GHRPs have a 2-fold mechanism of action, in that they cause an increase in GH through amplifying the natural growth hormone releasing hormone (GHRH) signal transduction pathway, as well as by suppressing the actions of somatostatin.
GHRP-2 is a 2nd generation GHRP and finds its primary use in the area of GH release. It is superior to GHRP-6 in this regard and is currently the preferred peptide for attaining maximum elevations in GH over the long-term. Recent research also reveals that GHRP-2 can be dosed much higher than initially thought, while avoiding the desensitization that is inherent in some of our other GHRP’s. This provides the user with the opportunity to experience greater elevations in total GH, depending on the dosage administered. Lastly, while GHRP-2 can potentially lead to some degree appetite stimulation, not all users experience this effect and when they do, it is typically much less profound in comparison to GHRP-6.
Common benefits of GH (GHRP-2) include:
* Decreases in body fat
* An increase in lean mass
* Increased collagen production
* Improved sleep
* Increased cellular repair
* An increase in IGF-1
* Increases in bone density
Common side effects of GH (GHRP-2) include:
* Water retention
* Tightness and/or carpel tunnel-like symptoms
* Numbness and tingling in the extremities
* A decrease insulin sensitivity
* Tiredness
Recommendations for use:
* GHRP-2 should be administered on an empty stomach. No food should be consumed for 15-20 minutes post-inject, if maximum GH release is desired.
* The average dosing range is between 100-2,000 mcg per inject. Dosing frequency is as little as 3X per week when mega-dosing…and up to 6X per day when using lower dosages. Multiple daily doses will yield the best results.
* In order to elicit maximal elevations in GH, GHRP-2 should be combined with a GHRH, such as ModGRF1-29 (also known as CJC1295 w/o dac).
Ipamorelin:
Ipamorelin is in the category of drugs known as GH secretagogues. This category of drugs includes GHRP-2, GHRP-6, Ipamorelin, and Hexarelin. Its primary function is to stimulate the pituitary gland to produce more growth hormone. Like the other GHRPs, it has a 2-fold mechanism of action, in that it causes an increase in GH through amplifying the natural growth hormone releasing hormone (GHRH) signal transduction pathway, as well as by suppressing the actions of Somatostatin.
Ipamorelin is a 3rd generation GHRP which displays great selectivity in its actions. Ipamorelin will not lead to any degree of appetite stimulation, will not affect prolactin or cortisol, and is used solely for GH release. On a mcg to mcg basis, its strength is comparable to GHRP-6, but unlike GHRP-6, it can be dosed much higher, resulting in potentially greater elevations in GH. Similar to GHRP-2, IPA has no ceiling dose. Therefore, as the dosage of IPA is titrated upward, GH release will continue to rise accordingly. Ipamorelin has developed a reputation as the “cleanest” of the GHRP’s and rightfully so.
Common benefits of GH (Ipamorelin) include:
* Decreases in body fat
* An increase in lean mass
* Increased collagen production
* Improved sleep
* Increased cellular repair
* An increase in IGF-1
* Increases in bone density
Common side effects of GH (Ipamorelin) include:
* Water retention
* Tightness and/or carpel tunnel-like symptoms
* Numbness and tingling in the extremities
* A decrease in insulin sensitivity
* Tiredness
Recommendations for use:
* Ipamorelin should be administered on an empty stomach. No food should be consumed at least 15-20 minutes post-inject, if maximum GH release is desired.
* The average dosing range is between 100-2,000 mcg per inject. Dosing frequency is as little as 3X per week when mega-dosing…and up to 4X per day when using lower dosages.
* In order to elicit maximal elevations in GH, IPA should be combined with a GHRH, such as ModGRF1-29 (also known as CJC1295 w/o dac).
Hexarelin:
Hexarelin is in the category of drugs known as GH secretagogues. This category of drugs includes GHRP-2, GHRP-6, Ipamorelin, and Hexarelin. Its primary function is to stimulate the pituitary gland to produce more growth hormone. Like the other GHRPs, it has a 2-fold mechanism of action, in that it causes an increase in GH through amplifying the natural growth hormone releasing hormone (GHRH) signal transduction pathway, as well as by suppressing the actions of Somatostatin.
Hexarelin, on a mcg per mcg basis, is the most potent of the GHRP’s for GH release. However, Hexarelin administration will quickly lead to desensitization when used at effective dosages, which makes it less than ideal for long-term use. This limitation has led to a decrease in popularity among users of GH peptides, with GHRP-2 and Ipamorelin leading the pack in the area of long-term effectiveness. However, these limitations do not mean Hexarelin is worthless. On the contrary, Hexarelin can be added to other GHRP’s (such as GHRP-2 & Ipamorelin) in lower dosages, in order to elicit further elevations in GH without incurring the desensitization that commonly presents itself when using Hex alone at peak effective dosages.
Common benefits of GH (Ipamorelin) include:
* Decreases in body fat
* An increase in lean mass
* Increased collagen production
* Improved sleep
* Increased cellular repair
* An increase in IGF-1
* Increases in bone density
Common side effects of GH (Ipamorelin) include:
* Water retention
* Tightness and/or carpel tunnel-like symptoms
* Numbness and tingling in the extremities
* A decrease in insulin sensitivity
* Tiredness
Recommendations for use:
* Hexarelin should be administered on an empty stomach. No food should be consumed at least 15-20 minutes post-inject, if maximum GH release is desired.
* The average dosing range is between 100-150 mcg per inject. Dosing frequency is between 1-4X per day.
* In order to elicit maximal elevations in GH, Hexarelin should be combined with a GHRH, such as ModGRF1-29 (also known as CJC1295 w/o dac).
* In order to avoid the rapid desensitization that typically accompanies Hexarelin use, it can be added to GHRP-2 and/or Ipamorelin at a dosage of 100 mcg 2-3 X per day. If this practice is limited to every other day usage, Hex can be used long-term, while increasing GH levels beyond what is normally experienced when using average doses of GHRP-2 or Ipamorelin.
GHRP-6 is sloppy in that it activates a wider array of effects beyond GH release. It causes intense hunger and gastic motility. It can have a mild effect on cortisol and prolactin. It is a first generation GHRP.
GHRP-2 is less sloppy with a more intense GH release, no gastric motility and less hunger effect. It can have an effect within the normal range on prolcatin and cortisol. It is a second generation peptide.
Hexarelin is not sloppy like GHRP-2 it gives a higher GH pulse but has some Gastric motility although no issues with hunger, you have to cycle the use of this peptide to avoid desensitisation though.
Ipamorelin is not sloppy at all. It does not release as much GH as GHRP-2 but it causes virtually no hunger or gastric motility and for the most part does not effect cortisol or prolactin. It is a third generation peptide
You would choose GHRP-2 unless you wanted GHRP-6 for the hunger effect or for the lower release profiles.
You would choose GHRP-2 or Hexarelin normally as the most bang for the buck, although Hexarelin will disturb REM sleep so long term GHRP-2 is the better choice out of all 4 GHRP peptides.
If you are very sensitive to perturbations in cortisol or prolactin you would choose the more expensive Ipamorelin.
What GHRH to use?
all CJC started off as Mod GRF the differences between these is half life this makes some useless for us to use.
CJC1293 is the shortest at 5minutes this is destroyed by the body before it can do anything
CJC1295 DAC is approx several days this gives a bleed type effect (continuous GH release) this can only be used for short blasts of 4-6 weeks to avoid damaging the pituitary gland, there is new data available on using this peptide (see bottom of article)
CJC1295 w/o DAC is approx 30min this is a old name for what you should be using which is MOD GRF.
MOD GRF is the GHRH you need to stack with any of the GHRP peptides, as it acts in synergy with the GHRP which creates a pulse, the longer acting with DAC creates a constant bleed of GH so acts differently to the peptide(GHRP) you are using alongside it.
Mixing:
GHRP (apart from Ipamorelin which comes in 2mg vial reffer to GHRH mixing) normally comes in 5mg vials.
5000mcg(5mg) per vial
Add 2ml bac water in vial
4iu (2 small ticks) on a standard 100iu(1ml) insulin pin gives 100mcg
GHRH (Mod GRF, CJC)
GHRH should come in 2mg vials (due to lowered half life of peptide)
2000mcg(2mg) per vial
Add 2ml of BAC water to vial
Each 10iu on a standard 100iu(1ml) insulin pin will give 100mcg
Storage:
Store the powder in the freezer if unmixed but once mixed with Bac water store in a fridge for best results(life of product) although can be stored in a cool place away from sunlight.
Dosing:
saturation dose is 1mcg per kg so normal dose is 100mcg for each 3 -5 times a day (you can use higher but double the dose will not give double the results)
Common injection times:
Before meal 1
PWO
B4 Bed
Make sure to leave 2-3hrs between jabs, results depend on frequency not dose so jabbing 100mcg 3 x daily will give better results than 300mcg once per day
Decision Matrix for you:
Are you primarily trying to lose fat or gain muscle?
lose fat
If lose fat reserve more of the Mod GRF(1-29)/GHRP for the fatloss time period (i.e. fasted cardio; part of the day when calories are lower then the energy demand for the activity during that period; pre-weight workout IF that workout is designed to be a fatloss workout; or simply earlier in the day when there is more time to make use of liberated fatty acids)
Possible dosing scheme – Morning/Midday/PWO
gain muscle
If gain muscle reserve more of the Mod GRF(1-29)/GHRP for around the weight workout and in the period that follows.
Possible dosing schemes – Morning/Pre-WO/Bed; Morning/PWO/Bed; Pre-WO/Bed/Middle of night; Morning/PWO/Middle of night; PWO/Morning/Midday
Injection:
Can be injected IM or SubQ
Food:
don’t eat Carbs or fats approx 1hr before the jab or 15-20 min after the Jab as this blunts the GH pulse, Protein is fine.
Additions (these are not required for good results and should be used by the advanced BB):
Adding 1-4iu of GH 10-15 minutes after peptides will give a bigger overall pulse of GH (natural + synthetic) any more than 4iu and this will result in more of a bleed type situation rather than a pulse of GH.
Adding Insulin to peptides will give you the same type of results as adding it to GH
To Summarise:
What do I do?
Step one: You NEVER know when somatostatin is going to act, Again since you don’t know if somatostatin is around you are rolling the dice by injecting GHRH. There will be zero GH release if somatostatin is around and only some if somatostatin is just starting up or just diminishing. Only if you are lucky to inject when somatostatin is gone will there be decent GH release. To overcome this, very large amounts say 2mg (2000mcg) are sometimes used.
Step two: Choose a GHRP because it can always cause GH release on its own and make the environment safe for GHRH.
Step three: Choose a GHRH to add to the GHRP because it will synergistic amplify the GH pulse.
Step four: Choose a dosing schedule. If once a day do it pre-bed. If twice a day then do it pre-bed and post workout (PWO). If three times a day do it pre-bed, PWO and in the morning.
How many times can I dose before I lose pulsation? Six (6) a day every 3 hours, How few times can I do it for some better sleep, small anti-aging effect? Just pre-bed.
Step five: Assess tolerance by dosing just once w/ a GHRP pre-bed at half of saturation dose. Then if that goes well go to full saturation dose. If that goes well add a 2nd dosing, If that is fine add a third dosing.
Step six: Decide on a dose. Saturation dose is defined as either 100mcg or 1mcg/kg of bodyweight in the studies. For the most part it is treated as 100mcg. That is the same for women and men. You will get added but diminishing benefit by dosing 200mcg, 300mcg perhaps 400mcg.
BOOM Dosing:
Another popular method to using these Peptides is to use a BOOM dose of Ipamorelin (2mg +) before bed time, this creates the original pulse of GH along with several smaller ones through the night. This really can only be carried out with Ipamorelin as there is no issues with Prolactin or Cortisol increase.
the protocol would be to use a larger amount of the GHRP peptide Ipamorelin lets say at 2mg – 5mg along with the standard dose of 100mcg of Mod GRF before you retire to bed (the same rules apply about food and timings) any less and you are not BOOM dosing
P-11 IPAMORELIN – A NOVEL VERY POTENT GROWTH HORMONE SECRETAGOGUE
MH Rasmussen, B Soogaar, L YnddaI, L Groes, L Helmgaard, L Nordholm. Novo Nordisk A/S, Clinical Development, Bagsvaerd, Denmark.
this study above shows that at high dose Ipamorelin continues to remain active for 5 to 6 hours, this means dose of 4mgs will result in Ipamorelin in plasma exerting an effect for more than 5 hours…
I have trailed this method using 2mg – 4mg of IPAM along with 100mcg of Mod GRF and it has enhanced my sleep dramatically, plus the improvement in my condition was better than i expected.
certainly something worth considering to add to the standard 3-5 x day saturation dosing schedule many follow.
Using CJC1295 DAC for a raising your basel GH & IGF-1 levels
there is new data to show the potential usefulness of the peptide CJC1295 DAC, recent studies have shown a 7.5 fold increase in basel GH levels and a 1-3fold increase in IGF-1 levels when using doses of 30-60mcg per kg, so for a 100kg person this would be 3-6mg per week……
Here we have two studies from the Journal of Endocrinology and Metabolism which show some documented dosage and specific details on how CJC-1295 induces GH elevations. These are only abstracts and are pretty simple in what they say. Regardless, this is a good starting point for understanding how our new friend CJ does his job, and a point from which more in-depth discussion can begin.
As you can see, CJC-1295 creates a prolonged stimulation of GH without eliminating the pulsatile release of GH. It does however increase the basal levels (trough) of GH in the body by 7.5 fold, as seen in the second study.
Dosages used ranged from 30-60 mcg/kg in the first study and 60-90 mcg/kg in the second study. These dosages did not have any apparent, serious side effects, and could be considered relatively safe for short term usage. For affordability’s sake, we will have to see whether or not dosages like these are realistic for the average user. Granted, this analog of GHRH would be dosed much less frequently than the peptides we are used to using, and for that matter, the price difference could be minimal, or even in our favor! Not to mention, less injections is probably favored by most – if not all
Prolonged stimulation of growth hormone (GH) and insulin-like growth factor I secretion by CJC-1295, a long-acting analog of GH-releasing hormone, in healthy adults.
CONTEXT:
Therapeutic use of GHRH to enhance GH secretion is limited by its short duration of action.
OBJECTIVE:
The objective of this study was to examine the pharmacokinetic profile, pharmacodynamic effects, and safety of CJC-1295, a long-acting GHRH analog.
DESIGN:
The study design was two randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind, ascending dose trials with durations of 28 and 49 d.
SETTING:
The study was performed at two investigational sites.
PARTICIPANTS:
Healthy subjects, ages 21-61 yr, were studied.
INTERVENTIONS:
CJC-1295 or placebo was administered sc in one of four ascending single doses in the first study and in two or three weekly or biweekly doses in the second study.
MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES:
The main outcome measures were peak concentrations and area under the curve of GH and IGF-I; standard pharmacokinetic parameters were used for CJC-1295.
RESULTS:
After a single injection of CJC-1295, there were dose-dependentincreases in mean plasma GH concentrations by 2- to 10-fold for 6 d or more and in mean plasma IGF-I concentrations by 1.5- to 3-fold for 9-11 d. The estimated half-life of CJC-1295 was 5.8-8.1 d. After multiple CJC-1295 doses, mean IGF-I levels remained above baseline for up to 28 d. No serious adverse reactions were reported.
CONCLUSIONS:
Subcutaneous administration of CJC-1295 resulted in sustained, dose-dependent increases in GH and IGF-I levels in healthy adults and was safe and relatively well tolerated, particularly at doses of 30 or 60 microg/kg. There was evidence of a cumulative effect after multiple doses. These data support the potential utility of CJC-1295 as a therapeutic agent.
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2006 Mar;91(3):799-805. Epub 2005 Dec 13.
Pulsatile secretion of growth hormone (GH) persists during continuous stimulation by CJC-1295, a long-acting GH-releasing hormone analog.
CONTEXT:
Pulsatile GH secretion is considered important for many of the hormone’s physiological effects. Short-term GHRH infusions enhance GH pulsatility and increase IGF-I, but the short GHRH half-life limits its therapeutic use. A synthetic GHRH analog (CJC-1295) that binds permanently to endogenous albumin after injection (half-life = 8 d) stimulates GH and IGF-I secretion in several animal species and in normal human subjects and enhances growth in rats.
OBJECTIVE:
Our objective was to assess GH pulsatility after a single injection of CJC-1295 and determine which GH secretion parameters correlated to the increase in IGF-I production.
METHODS:
GH pulsatility was assessed by 20-min blood sampling during an overnight 12-h period in healthy 20- to 40-yr-old men before and 1 wk after injection of either 60 or 90 microg/kg CJC-1295.
RESULTS:
GH secretion was increased after CJC-1295 administration with preserved pulsatility. The frequency and magnitude of GH secretory pulses were unaltered. However, basal (trough) GH levels were markedly increased (7.5-fold; P < 0.0001) and contributed to an overall increase in GH secretion (mean GH levels, 46%; P < 0.01) and IGF-I levels (45%; P < 0.001). No significant differences were observed between the responses to the two drug doses. The IGF-I increases did not correlate with any parameters of GH secretion.
CONCLUSIONS:
CJC-1295 increased trough and mean GH secretion and IGF-I production with preserved GH pulsatility. The marked enhancement of trough GH levels by continuous GHRH stimulation implicates the importance of this effect on increasing IGF-I. Long-acting GHRH preparations may have clinical utility in patients with intact pituitary GH secretory capability.
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2006 Dec;91(12):4792-7. Epub 2006 Oct 3.
So in basic terms the use of higher dose CJC1295 (GHRH) will raise basel and IGF-1 levels
CJC-1295 Decay Rate Chart
A single dose of CJC-1295 “decays” by about 10% a day. So that single dose will follow the “effectiveness” percentages indicated below over the week:
_______Dose (2mg)
Day 0 – 100% (2mg)
Day 1 – 90% (1.8mg remaining)
Day 2 – 81% (1.6mg remaing)
Day 3 – 73% (1.4mg remaining
Day 4 – 65% (1.3mg remaining)
Day 5 – 59% (1.1mg remaining)
Day 6 – 53% (1mg remaining)
Day 7 – 47% (.9mg remaining)
Day 8 – 43% (.8mg remaining)
So a once a week dosing protocol would result in less consistent GH blood levels then the twice a week dosing indicated below (especially so after the initial buildup):
______Dose #1_(1mg)__________Dose #2_(1mg)__________Dose #3_(1mg)
Day 0 – 100% (1mg)
Day 1 – 90% (.9mg remaining)
Day 2 – 81% (.8mg remaing)
Day 3 – 73% (.7mg remaining)
Day 4 – 65% (.6mg remaining) + 100% (1mg) = 1.6mg
Day 5 – 59% (.5mg remaining) + 90% (.9mg remaining) = 1.4mg
Day 6 – 53% (.5mg remaining) + 81% (.8mg remaing) = 1.3mg
Day 7 – 47% (.4mg remaining) + 73% (.7mg remaining) = 1.1mg
Day 8 – 43% (.3mg remaining) + 65% (.6mg remaining) + 100% (1mg) = 1.9mg
http://www.teampscarb.co.uk/index.php/the-very-basic-guide-to-ghrpghrh-peptides/
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The newish supplement to be used by Bodybuilders are Peptides that naturally pulse GH from the body, the problem is that many make it all to confusing much more than it needs to be so i thought it would be a good article to write to try and clear some of the confusion on the subject.
if you prefer the science and long boring words to describe things this article is not for you
you need to look at 2 types of peptides:
GHRP – this group’s main types are GHRP-2, GHRP-6, Ipamorelin, Hexarelin (there are others but these are the most common and effective)
GHRH – this groups main type is Mod GRF 1-29 (sometimes called CJC1295 without DAC)
What do they do:
They release and amplify a natural pulse of GH from your body
GHRP release a pulse of GH
GHRH release and amplify this pulse
Combining both peptides gives more than double the effect of either alone due to the synergy they have it would be foolish in my opinion to use either alone.
GHRP in detail:
GHRP-6:
Growth hormone releasing peptide-6 (GHRP-6) is in the category of drugs known as GH Secretagogues. This category of drugs includes GHRP-2, GHRP-6, Ipamorelin, and Hexarelin. Their primary function is to stimulate the pituitary gland to produce more Growth Hormone. GHRPs have a 2-fold mechanism of action, in that they cause an increase in GH through amplifying the natural growth hormone releasing hormone (GHRH) signal transduction pathway, as well as by suppressing the actions of somatostatin.
GHRP-6 is a 1st generation GHRP and is primarily used in the BB’ing community for two reasons, which are 1) GH release and 2) Appetite stimulation. If one is considering using this peptide for GH release, the individual should consider whether or not the accompanying appetite stimulation is a beneficial or negative characteristic in their current circumstances. In individuals who struggle with appetite issues and have trouble eating enough food to meet their daily caloric requirements, this peptide can prove to be a great addition to their program. For those on contest diets or who are trying to lean out, they may want to forego this peptide in exchange for a GHRP absent of this effect.
Common benefits of GH (GHRP-6) include:
* Reductions in body fat
* Increased lean mass.
* Increased collagen production
* Improved sleep
* Increased cellular repair
* An increase in IGF-1
* Increases in bone density
Common side effects of GH (GHRP-6) include:
* Water retention
* Tightness and/or carpel tunnel-like symptoms in the wrist/hand.
* Numbness and tingling in the extremities
* A decrease in insulin sensitivity
* Tiredness
Recommendations for use:
* GHRP-6 should be administered on an empty stomach. No food should be consumed for 15-20 minutes post-inject, if maximum GH release is desired.
* When using GHRP-6 for GH release, the average dosing range is between 100-150 mcg per inject. Dosing frequency is between 1-4X per day.
* In order to elicit maximal elevations in GH, GHRP-6 should be combined with a GHRH, such as ModGRF1-29 (also known as CJC1295 w/o dac).
* If used for appetite stimulation, the common dosing range for GHRP-6 is between 100-300 per inject, as needed.
GHRP-2:
Growth hormone releasing peptide-2 (GHRP-2) is in the category of drugs known as GH secretagogues. This category of drugs includes GHRP-2, GHRP-6, Ipamorelin, and Hexarelin. Their primary function is to stimulate the pituitary gland to produce more growth hormone. GHRPs have a 2-fold mechanism of action, in that they cause an increase in GH through amplifying the natural growth hormone releasing hormone (GHRH) signal transduction pathway, as well as by suppressing the actions of somatostatin.
GHRP-2 is a 2nd generation GHRP and finds its primary use in the area of GH release. It is superior to GHRP-6 in this regard and is currently the preferred peptide for attaining maximum elevations in GH over the long-term. Recent research also reveals that GHRP-2 can be dosed much higher than initially thought, while avoiding the desensitization that is inherent in some of our other GHRP’s. This provides the user with the opportunity to experience greater elevations in total GH, depending on the dosage administered. Lastly, while GHRP-2 can potentially lead to some degree appetite stimulation, not all users experience this effect and when they do, it is typically much less profound in comparison to GHRP-6.
Common benefits of GH (GHRP-2) include:
* Decreases in body fat
* An increase in lean mass
* Increased collagen production
* Improved sleep
* Increased cellular repair
* An increase in IGF-1
* Increases in bone density
Common side effects of GH (GHRP-2) include:
* Water retention
* Tightness and/or carpel tunnel-like symptoms
* Numbness and tingling in the extremities
* A decrease insulin sensitivity
* Tiredness
Recommendations for use:
* GHRP-2 should be administered on an empty stomach. No food should be consumed for 15-20 minutes post-inject, if maximum GH release is desired.
* The average dosing range is between 100-2,000 mcg per inject. Dosing frequency is as little as 3X per week when mega-dosing…and up to 6X per day when using lower dosages. Multiple daily doses will yield the best results.
* In order to elicit maximal elevations in GH, GHRP-2 should be combined with a GHRH, such as ModGRF1-29 (also known as CJC1295 w/o dac).
Ipamorelin:
Ipamorelin is in the category of drugs known as GH secretagogues. This category of drugs includes GHRP-2, GHRP-6, Ipamorelin, and Hexarelin. Its primary function is to stimulate the pituitary gland to produce more growth hormone. Like the other GHRPs, it has a 2-fold mechanism of action, in that it causes an increase in GH through amplifying the natural growth hormone releasing hormone (GHRH) signal transduction pathway, as well as by suppressing the actions of Somatostatin.
Ipamorelin is a 3rd generation GHRP which displays great selectivity in its actions. Ipamorelin will not lead to any degree of appetite stimulation, will not affect prolactin or cortisol, and is used solely for GH release. On a mcg to mcg basis, its strength is comparable to GHRP-6, but unlike GHRP-6, it can be dosed much higher, resulting in potentially greater elevations in GH. Similar to GHRP-2, IPA has no ceiling dose. Therefore, as the dosage of IPA is titrated upward, GH release will continue to rise accordingly. Ipamorelin has developed a reputation as the “cleanest” of the GHRP’s and rightfully so.
Common benefits of GH (Ipamorelin) include:
* Decreases in body fat
* An increase in lean mass
* Increased collagen production
* Improved sleep
* Increased cellular repair
* An increase in IGF-1
* Increases in bone density
Common side effects of GH (Ipamorelin) include:
* Water retention
* Tightness and/or carpel tunnel-like symptoms
* Numbness and tingling in the extremities
* A decrease in insulin sensitivity
* Tiredness
Recommendations for use:
* Ipamorelin should be administered on an empty stomach. No food should be consumed at least 15-20 minutes post-inject, if maximum GH release is desired.
* The average dosing range is between 100-2,000 mcg per inject. Dosing frequency is as little as 3X per week when mega-dosing…and up to 4X per day when using lower dosages.
* In order to elicit maximal elevations in GH, IPA should be combined with a GHRH, such as ModGRF1-29 (also known as CJC1295 w/o dac).
Hexarelin:
Hexarelin is in the category of drugs known as GH secretagogues. This category of drugs includes GHRP-2, GHRP-6, Ipamorelin, and Hexarelin. Its primary function is to stimulate the pituitary gland to produce more growth hormone. Like the other GHRPs, it has a 2-fold mechanism of action, in that it causes an increase in GH through amplifying the natural growth hormone releasing hormone (GHRH) signal transduction pathway, as well as by suppressing the actions of Somatostatin.
Hexarelin, on a mcg per mcg basis, is the most potent of the GHRP’s for GH release. However, Hexarelin administration will quickly lead to desensitization when used at effective dosages, which makes it less than ideal for long-term use. This limitation has led to a decrease in popularity among users of GH peptides, with GHRP-2 and Ipamorelin leading the pack in the area of long-term effectiveness. However, these limitations do not mean Hexarelin is worthless. On the contrary, Hexarelin can be added to other GHRP’s (such as GHRP-2 & Ipamorelin) in lower dosages, in order to elicit further elevations in GH without incurring the desensitization that commonly presents itself when using Hex alone at peak effective dosages.
Common benefits of GH (Ipamorelin) include:
* Decreases in body fat
* An increase in lean mass
* Increased collagen production
* Improved sleep
* Increased cellular repair
* An increase in IGF-1
* Increases in bone density
Common side effects of GH (Ipamorelin) include:
* Water retention
* Tightness and/or carpel tunnel-like symptoms
* Numbness and tingling in the extremities
* A decrease in insulin sensitivity
* Tiredness
Recommendations for use:
* Hexarelin should be administered on an empty stomach. No food should be consumed at least 15-20 minutes post-inject, if maximum GH release is desired.
* The average dosing range is between 100-150 mcg per inject. Dosing frequency is between 1-4X per day.
* In order to elicit maximal elevations in GH, Hexarelin should be combined with a GHRH, such as ModGRF1-29 (also known as CJC1295 w/o dac).
* In order to avoid the rapid desensitization that typically accompanies Hexarelin use, it can be added to GHRP-2 and/or Ipamorelin at a dosage of 100 mcg 2-3 X per day. If this practice is limited to every other day usage, Hex can be used long-term, while increasing GH levels beyond what is normally experienced when using average doses of GHRP-2 or Ipamorelin.
GHRP-6 is sloppy in that it activates a wider array of effects beyond GH release. It causes intense hunger and gastic motility. It can have a mild effect on cortisol and prolactin. It is a first generation GHRP.
GHRP-2 is less sloppy with a more intense GH release, no gastric motility and less hunger effect. It can have an effect within the normal range on prolcatin and cortisol. It is a second generation peptide.
Hexarelin is not sloppy like GHRP-2 it gives a higher GH pulse but has some Gastric motility although no issues with hunger, you have to cycle the use of this peptide to avoid desensitisation though.
Ipamorelin is not sloppy at all. It does not release as much GH as GHRP-2 but it causes virtually no hunger or gastric motility and for the most part does not effect cortisol or prolactin. It is a third generation peptide
You would choose GHRP-2 unless you wanted GHRP-6 for the hunger effect or for the lower release profiles.
You would choose GHRP-2 or Hexarelin normally as the most bang for the buck, although Hexarelin will disturb REM sleep so long term GHRP-2 is the better choice out of all 4 GHRP peptides.
If you are very sensitive to perturbations in cortisol or prolactin you would choose the more expensive Ipamorelin.
What GHRH to use?
all CJC started off as Mod GRF the differences between these is half life this makes some useless for us to use.
CJC1293 is the shortest at 5minutes this is destroyed by the body before it can do anything
CJC1295 DAC is approx several days this gives a bleed type effect (continuous GH release) this can only be used for short blasts of 4-6 weeks to avoid damaging the pituitary gland, there is new data available on using this peptide (see bottom of article)
CJC1295 w/o DAC is approx 30min this is a old name for what you should be using which is MOD GRF.
MOD GRF is the GHRH you need to stack with any of the GHRP peptides, as it acts in synergy with the GHRP which creates a pulse, the longer acting with DAC creates a constant bleed of GH so acts differently to the peptide(GHRP) you are using alongside it.
Mixing:
GHRP (apart from Ipamorelin which comes in 2mg vial reffer to GHRH mixing) normally comes in 5mg vials.
5000mcg(5mg) per vial
Add 2ml bac water in vial
4iu (2 small ticks) on a standard 100iu(1ml) insulin pin gives 100mcg
GHRH (Mod GRF, CJC)
GHRH should come in 2mg vials (due to lowered half life of peptide)
2000mcg(2mg) per vial
Add 2ml of BAC water to vial
Each 10iu on a standard 100iu(1ml) insulin pin will give 100mcg
Storage:
Store the powder in the freezer if unmixed but once mixed with Bac water store in a fridge for best results(life of product) although can be stored in a cool place away from sunlight.
Dosing:
saturation dose is 1mcg per kg so normal dose is 100mcg for each 3 -5 times a day (you can use higher but double the dose will not give double the results)
Common injection times:
Before meal 1
PWO
B4 Bed
Make sure to leave 2-3hrs between jabs, results depend on frequency not dose so jabbing 100mcg 3 x daily will give better results than 300mcg once per day
Decision Matrix for you:
Are you primarily trying to lose fat or gain muscle?
lose fat
If lose fat reserve more of the Mod GRF(1-29)/GHRP for the fatloss time period (i.e. fasted cardio; part of the day when calories are lower then the energy demand for the activity during that period; pre-weight workout IF that workout is designed to be a fatloss workout; or simply earlier in the day when there is more time to make use of liberated fatty acids)
Possible dosing scheme – Morning/Midday/PWO
gain muscle
If gain muscle reserve more of the Mod GRF(1-29)/GHRP for around the weight workout and in the period that follows.
Possible dosing schemes – Morning/Pre-WO/Bed; Morning/PWO/Bed; Pre-WO/Bed/Middle of night; Morning/PWO/Middle of night; PWO/Morning/Midday
Injection:
Can be injected IM or SubQ
Food:
don’t eat Carbs or fats approx 1hr before the jab or 15-20 min after the Jab as this blunts the GH pulse, Protein is fine.
Additions (these are not required for good results and should be used by the advanced BB):
Adding 1-4iu of GH 10-15 minutes after peptides will give a bigger overall pulse of GH (natural + synthetic) any more than 4iu and this will result in more of a bleed type situation rather than a pulse of GH.
Adding Insulin to peptides will give you the same type of results as adding it to GH
To Summarise:
What do I do?
Step one: You NEVER know when somatostatin is going to act, Again since you don’t know if somatostatin is around you are rolling the dice by injecting GHRH. There will be zero GH release if somatostatin is around and only some if somatostatin is just starting up or just diminishing. Only if you are lucky to inject when somatostatin is gone will there be decent GH release. To overcome this, very large amounts say 2mg (2000mcg) are sometimes used.
Step two: Choose a GHRP because it can always cause GH release on its own and make the environment safe for GHRH.
Step three: Choose a GHRH to add to the GHRP because it will synergistic amplify the GH pulse.
Step four: Choose a dosing schedule. If once a day do it pre-bed. If twice a day then do it pre-bed and post workout (PWO). If three times a day do it pre-bed, PWO and in the morning.
How many times can I dose before I lose pulsation? Six (6) a day every 3 hours, How few times can I do it for some better sleep, small anti-aging effect? Just pre-bed.
Step five: Assess tolerance by dosing just once w/ a GHRP pre-bed at half of saturation dose. Then if that goes well go to full saturation dose. If that goes well add a 2nd dosing, If that is fine add a third dosing.
Step six: Decide on a dose. Saturation dose is defined as either 100mcg or 1mcg/kg of bodyweight in the studies. For the most part it is treated as 100mcg. That is the same for women and men. You will get added but diminishing benefit by dosing 200mcg, 300mcg perhaps 400mcg.
BOOM Dosing:
Another popular method to using these Peptides is to use a BOOM dose of Ipamorelin (2mg +) before bed time, this creates the original pulse of GH along with several smaller ones through the night. This really can only be carried out with Ipamorelin as there is no issues with Prolactin or Cortisol increase.
the protocol would be to use a larger amount of the GHRP peptide Ipamorelin lets say at 2mg – 5mg along with the standard dose of 100mcg of Mod GRF before you retire to bed (the same rules apply about food and timings) any less and you are not BOOM dosing
P-11 IPAMORELIN – A NOVEL VERY POTENT GROWTH HORMONE SECRETAGOGUE
MH Rasmussen, B Soogaar, L YnddaI, L Groes, L Helmgaard, L Nordholm. Novo Nordisk A/S, Clinical Development, Bagsvaerd, Denmark.
this study above shows that at high dose Ipamorelin continues to remain active for 5 to 6 hours, this means dose of 4mgs will result in Ipamorelin in plasma exerting an effect for more than 5 hours…
I have trailed this method using 2mg – 4mg of IPAM along with 100mcg of Mod GRF and it has enhanced my sleep dramatically, plus the improvement in my condition was better than i expected.
certainly something worth considering to add to the standard 3-5 x day saturation dosing schedule many follow.
Using CJC1295 DAC for a raising your basel GH & IGF-1 levels
there is new data to show the potential usefulness of the peptide CJC1295 DAC, recent studies have shown a 7.5 fold increase in basel GH levels and a 1-3fold increase in IGF-1 levels when using doses of 30-60mcg per kg, so for a 100kg person this would be 3-6mg per week……
Here we have two studies from the Journal of Endocrinology and Metabolism which show some documented dosage and specific details on how CJC-1295 induces GH elevations. These are only abstracts and are pretty simple in what they say. Regardless, this is a good starting point for understanding how our new friend CJ does his job, and a point from which more in-depth discussion can begin.
As you can see, CJC-1295 creates a prolonged stimulation of GH without eliminating the pulsatile release of GH. It does however increase the basal levels (trough) of GH in the body by 7.5 fold, as seen in the second study.
Dosages used ranged from 30-60 mcg/kg in the first study and 60-90 mcg/kg in the second study. These dosages did not have any apparent, serious side effects, and could be considered relatively safe for short term usage. For affordability’s sake, we will have to see whether or not dosages like these are realistic for the average user. Granted, this analog of GHRH would be dosed much less frequently than the peptides we are used to using, and for that matter, the price difference could be minimal, or even in our favor! Not to mention, less injections is probably favored by most – if not all
Prolonged stimulation of growth hormone (GH) and insulin-like growth factor I secretion by CJC-1295, a long-acting analog of GH-releasing hormone, in healthy adults.
CONTEXT:
Therapeutic use of GHRH to enhance GH secretion is limited by its short duration of action.
OBJECTIVE:
The objective of this study was to examine the pharmacokinetic profile, pharmacodynamic effects, and safety of CJC-1295, a long-acting GHRH analog.
DESIGN:
The study design was two randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind, ascending dose trials with durations of 28 and 49 d.
SETTING:
The study was performed at two investigational sites.
PARTICIPANTS:
Healthy subjects, ages 21-61 yr, were studied.
INTERVENTIONS:
CJC-1295 or placebo was administered sc in one of four ascending single doses in the first study and in two or three weekly or biweekly doses in the second study.
MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES:
The main outcome measures were peak concentrations and area under the curve of GH and IGF-I; standard pharmacokinetic parameters were used for CJC-1295.
RESULTS:
After a single injection of CJC-1295, there were dose-dependentincreases in mean plasma GH concentrations by 2- to 10-fold for 6 d or more and in mean plasma IGF-I concentrations by 1.5- to 3-fold for 9-11 d. The estimated half-life of CJC-1295 was 5.8-8.1 d. After multiple CJC-1295 doses, mean IGF-I levels remained above baseline for up to 28 d. No serious adverse reactions were reported.
CONCLUSIONS:
Subcutaneous administration of CJC-1295 resulted in sustained, dose-dependent increases in GH and IGF-I levels in healthy adults and was safe and relatively well tolerated, particularly at doses of 30 or 60 microg/kg. There was evidence of a cumulative effect after multiple doses. These data support the potential utility of CJC-1295 as a therapeutic agent.
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2006 Mar;91(3):799-805. Epub 2005 Dec 13.
Pulsatile secretion of growth hormone (GH) persists during continuous stimulation by CJC-1295, a long-acting GH-releasing hormone analog.
CONTEXT:
Pulsatile GH secretion is considered important for many of the hormone’s physiological effects. Short-term GHRH infusions enhance GH pulsatility and increase IGF-I, but the short GHRH half-life limits its therapeutic use. A synthetic GHRH analog (CJC-1295) that binds permanently to endogenous albumin after injection (half-life = 8 d) stimulates GH and IGF-I secretion in several animal species and in normal human subjects and enhances growth in rats.
OBJECTIVE:
Our objective was to assess GH pulsatility after a single injection of CJC-1295 and determine which GH secretion parameters correlated to the increase in IGF-I production.
METHODS:
GH pulsatility was assessed by 20-min blood sampling during an overnight 12-h period in healthy 20- to 40-yr-old men before and 1 wk after injection of either 60 or 90 microg/kg CJC-1295.
RESULTS:
GH secretion was increased after CJC-1295 administration with preserved pulsatility. The frequency and magnitude of GH secretory pulses were unaltered. However, basal (trough) GH levels were markedly increased (7.5-fold; P < 0.0001) and contributed to an overall increase in GH secretion (mean GH levels, 46%; P < 0.01) and IGF-I levels (45%; P < 0.001). No significant differences were observed between the responses to the two drug doses. The IGF-I increases did not correlate with any parameters of GH secretion.
CONCLUSIONS:
CJC-1295 increased trough and mean GH secretion and IGF-I production with preserved GH pulsatility. The marked enhancement of trough GH levels by continuous GHRH stimulation implicates the importance of this effect on increasing IGF-I. Long-acting GHRH preparations may have clinical utility in patients with intact pituitary GH secretory capability.
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2006 Dec;91(12):4792-7. Epub 2006 Oct 3.
So in basic terms the use of higher dose CJC1295 (GHRH) will raise basel and IGF-1 levels
CJC-1295 Decay Rate Chart
A single dose of CJC-1295 “decays” by about 10% a day. So that single dose will follow the “effectiveness” percentages indicated below over the week:
_______Dose (2mg)
Day 0 – 100% (2mg)
Day 1 – 90% (1.8mg remaining)
Day 2 – 81% (1.6mg remaing)
Day 3 – 73% (1.4mg remaining
Day 4 – 65% (1.3mg remaining)
Day 5 – 59% (1.1mg remaining)
Day 6 – 53% (1mg remaining)
Day 7 – 47% (.9mg remaining)
Day 8 – 43% (.8mg remaining)
So a once a week dosing protocol would result in less consistent GH blood levels then the twice a week dosing indicated below (especially so after the initial buildup):
______Dose #1_(1mg)__________Dose #2_(1mg)__________Dose #3_(1mg)
Day 0 – 100% (1mg)
Day 1 – 90% (.9mg remaining)
Day 2 – 81% (.8mg remaing)
Day 3 – 73% (.7mg remaining)
Day 4 – 65% (.6mg remaining) + 100% (1mg) = 1.6mg
Day 5 – 59% (.5mg remaining) + 90% (.9mg remaining) = 1.4mg
Day 6 – 53% (.5mg remaining) + 81% (.8mg remaing) = 1.3mg
Day 7 – 47% (.4mg remaining) + 73% (.7mg remaining) = 1.1mg
Day 8 – 43% (.3mg remaining) + 65% (.6mg remaining) + 100% (1mg) = 1.9mg
http://www.teampscarb.co.uk/index.php/the-very-basic-guide-to-ghrpghrh-peptides/
@pumpingiron22 thanks for all the contributions you've made in this thread. Great info for new members and any member for that matter.
KPK
New Member
@pumpingiron22, good read man. Thanks
strmtropr
New Member
Best post I've read so far! Straight goldmine of info. Thx for your contribution.
Arm1nArmz
New Member
Wow, thank you. this is a load of great info right here. This is a big help. Just to think of all the time and money spent on aquiring all this knowledge and this good man shares it with us right here. Thinking of making a 3ring binder with all the info I can find and study that shit!
.
Good read pumpin. I forgot about this forum, it's been a while.
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