a long term unconventional HRT/TRT regimen with tren and test

[foreveryoung]

I alluded to my taking of a new path in my trt/hrt protocol in my last thread, and have started this new regimen for a while now but been late in making a new thread about it

in my past regimen, I was using testosterone and an AI (usually letrozole, which worked best, but sometimes arimidex) and had added in proviron or masteron along the way off and on.... I had improvement on this regimen, but things were not perfect, and more and more toward the end I was getting concerned about the need for AI and the side effects that long term estrogen control might have

my new regimen, and I must say I am very excited about it so far as it has exceeded results of the previous experiments in all ways, feeling of health, "even-ness", libido (true desire type libido and function), body composition, mental outlook, energy, etc....

currently I am on e4d injections of 65 mg test cypionate and 50 mg trenbolone acetate, no AI or any other ancillaries

I am very pleasantly surprised at how well this is working, amazed really

 

[Michael Scally MD]

Why are you not calling it what it is - AAS Cycle. It is not TRT. And, WTF is HRT! It seems you are afraid of being labeled a steroid user.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4p_cXfdz8Hw]Walk on the Wild Side - Lou Reed lyrics - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Dr JIM]

Oh come on Dr S, most using this new found protocol (of sorts) appear to believe they have an endogenous Tren or Deca deficiency (the latter would be more legitimate) and HRT (Hormone Replacement Therapy) justifies it's use as therapeutic.

I must also agree those whom use anything but Test, except perhaps Var in it's stead, are indeed cycling and seem to justify this form of "therapy" as TRT. (But really D/T-RT guys about the only thing Deca and or Tren have in common with Testosterone is all three are AAS)

I also suspect the reasoning is relatively straightforward, they don't want to be eschewed because they have morphed into the dreaded AAS "abuser".

To that I say, guys this TRT notion seems silly since your on Meso an anonymous AAS forum, where no judgment is passed for what should be legal!

JIM

 

[PharmD518]

That is not an AAS cycle with those low doses. How do you feel the tren is helping you specifically? Any improvements in libido erections with the added tren? Why are you dosing it so far apart. I'm under the impression acetate has a very short half life and should be doses ideally everyday or at the latest every other day.

 

[foreveryoung]

it is not a cycle, this is a protocol that will not be cycled

 

[foreveryoung]

libido improvement is dramatic, erections, morning wood, desire

sleep is an interesting thing, I feel much more rested with equivalent sleeping time, very noticeable is the vividness of dreams, maybe this means that sleeping rhythms and rem sleep is changed? as the dreaming is really vivid and my daytime energy is much much better than before... on my last regimen I was feeling like a nap was unavoidable in the middle of the day and often didn't feel rested

 

[foreveryoung]

That is not an AAS cycle with those low doses. How do you feel the tren is helping you specifically? Any improvements in libido erections with the added tren? Why are you dosing it so far apart. I'm under the impression acetate has a very short half life and should be doses ideally everyday or at the latest every other day.

however it is doing it, the tren is making a big difference in many different factors, libido is approaching levels I haven't felt in decades, something testosterone only was never able to come close to

I am keeping doses very low, I believe that tren is powerful enough that even with lower levels in the body there will be positive effects, and without ever hitting high blood levels any negative side effects will be minimal or none, with the acetate I believe an e4d protocol will see levels relatively smooth in a low range which is my goal, and the test cypionate at a low dose will provide a very smooth base throughout as well.... at these low doses and with synergy between them I think there is a lot of good things happening with much lower risk of unhealthy side effects...

at least that is my goal, a long term protocol that achieves many desirable benefits with less complications and problems, already I feel much healthier than before and better than in many years, listening to one's body can tell a lot, I will be paying attention and updating as I go, but so far I am extremely happy with the results

 

[Michael Scally MD]

it is not a cycle, this is a protocol that will not be cycled

You can dance around the semantics, it IS a cycle. If the cycle is forever, so be it. It is NOT TRT. There is no such thing as male HRT. LMAO

 

[PharmD518]

however it is doing it, the tren is making a big difference in many different factors, libido is approaching levels I haven't felt in decades, something testosterone only was never able to come close to

I am keeping doses very low, I believe that tren is powerful enough that even with lower levels in the body there will be positive effects, and without ever hitting high blood levels any negative side effects will be minimal or none, with the acetate I believe an e4d protocol will see levels relatively smooth in a low range which is my goal, and the test cypionate at a low dose will provide a very smooth base throughout as well.... at these low doses and with synergy between them I think there is a lot of good things happening with much lower risk of unhealthy side effects...

at least that is my goal, a long term protocol that achieves many desirable benefits with less complications and problems, already I feel much healthier than before and better than in many years, listening to one's body can tell a lot, I will be paying attention and updating as I go, but so far I am extremely happy with the results

Interesting. I don't really get much response from testosterone either and was thinking of adding Tren in for a bit to see if it helps. Will definitely try it soon then.

 

[foreveryoung]

You can dance around the semantics, it IS a cycle. If the cycle is forever, so be it. It is NOT TRT. There is no such thing as male HRT. LMAO

for such a learned and intelligent man you should not be so close minded, and you are the one dancing around semantics

I am replacing endogenous testosterone in my system with androgenic compounds exogenously, hence testosterone replacement or hormone replacement, they may not fit in your narrowly defined definition of this type of treatment but my goals are the same, health and well being

and please stop using the term "cycle", the term "cycle" and it's etymology refer to a circle of rotation around an interval, therefore "cycling on and off", and therefore is a total contradiction in your own sentence "...it is a cycle. If the cycle is forever, so be it" by definition this makes no sense

my goal is a hormone replacement protocol that will give me health and well being, and ability to live my life to it's potential

 

[cvictorg]

for such a learned and intelligent man you should not be so close minded, and you are the one dancing around semantics

I am replacing endogenous testosterone in my system with androgenic compounds exogenously, hence testosterone replacement or hormone replacement, they may not fit in your narrowly defined definition of this type of treatment but my goals are the same, health and well being

and please stop using the term "cycle", the term "cycle" and it's etymology refer to a circle of rotation around an interval, therefore "cycling on and off", and therefore is a total contradiction in your own sentence "...it is a cycle. If the cycle is forever, so be it" by definition this makes no sense

my goal is a hormone replacement protocol that will give me health and well being, and ability to live my life to it's potential

1) Are you using testosterone that you're receiving from a doctor via a script or are you self-medicating? Have you reduced the amount of testosterone you are using?

2) Have you had blood work done after you started using tren?

3) How do you know that the tren you are using is "pure" and that you are injecting what you are supposed to be injecting? Do you have faith in your "source"?

@Dr Scally - whether you call it HRT or TRT is irrevelant as it's essentially the same thing!

 

[Michael Scally MD]

Tren = TRT, NOT

 

[cvictorg]

17?-Hydroxyestra-4,9,11-trien-3-one (trenbolone) exhibits tissue selective anabolic activity: effects on muscle, bone, adiposity, hemoglobin, and prostate

In summary, low-dose administration of the non-5?-reducible androgen TREN maintains prostate mass and hemoglobin concentrations near the level of shams while producing potent myotrophic actions in skeletal muscle and partial protection against orchiectomy-induced bone loss and visceral fat accumulation. Our findings indicate that TREN has advantages over supraphysiological testosterone and supports the need for future preclinical studies examining the viability of TREN as an option for androgen replacement therapy.

Our results demonstrate that TREN prevents the deleterious alterations in body composition associated with ORX to the same extent as supraphysiological TE. Specifically, we observed that 1) regardless of dose, TREN and supraphysiological TE produced equally myotrophic responses in the androgen-sensitive LABC muscle complex in both intact and ORX animals, 2) TREN partially prevented ORX-induced bone loss to roughly the same extent as supraphysiological TE, and 3) at equal doses, TREN was somewhat more lipolytic than TE in visceral fat. In contrast, the lowest doses of TREN maintained prostate mass and Hb concentrations at the level of shams in both intact and orchiectomized animals, whereas supraphysiological TE and high-dose TREN produced prostate enlargement and/or elevations in Hb. Thus, at the lowest doses administered, TREN appears to have a higher and more clinically favorable anabolic/androgenic ratio than supraphysiological TE.

In conclusion, administration of TREN, a potent non-5?-reducible and nonestrogenic synthetic testosterone analog, produces robust myotrophic effects, partial inhibition of bone loss, prevention of visceral fat accumulation, and maintenance of Hb and prostate mass at the level of intact animals, at least at the lowest dose administered. These results suggest that lower-dose TREN induces favorable SARM-like effects on musculoskeletal tissue and adiposity and within specific accessory sex organs. Future research examining the safety and efficacy of this androgen in preclinical settings appears to be appropriate because the anabolic/androgenic ratio appears to be higher and because the risk/benefit ratio appears to be less than that of supraphysiological TE, at least in regard to prostate enlargement, although evaluating TREN and other SARMs in models of androgen-responsive prostate cancer is necessary prior to these agents being recommended for clinical testing.

NOW - I KNOW that we'll NEVER get human testing on trenbolone but doesn't this seem to indicate that it MIGHT be useful??

If I'm WRONG please tell me why..

 

[Mike Oxbig]

this thread was started by me in the Men's Health forum for a reason, and it has been moved out of that forum by Dr. Scally as a moderator here

needless to say I am not very happy about this, and am questioning the investment of my time and thoughts and experiences in attempting to enrich this forum, as it may be time for me to move on

Nothing wrong with wanting to run tren while on TRT, but call it what it is; a cycle.

Once you stop using androgens to achieve homeostasis and start using them to with the goal to put on more mass than you could naturally it turns into recreational usage. It is only medical is the compounds and dosages fall within the therapeutic window.

Just because someone is scripted analgesics to treat pain doesn't mean that popping 7 Oxycodone with the intention of nodding out is medically justified.

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

this thread was started by me in the Men's Health forum for a reason, and it has been moved out of that forum by Dr. Scally as a moderator here

needless to say I am not very happy about this, and am questioning the investment of my time and thoughts and experiences in attempting to enrich this forum, as it may be time for me to move on

There's no need to move on. I understand you wanted this thread in the men's health forum but it will be just as useful in the steroid forum. The mens health forum is Doc's forum and I can understand why he wants to keep "steroid" talk (and the meatheads) seperate from legitimate TRT discussions. It's no big deal, moving the thread is certainly not worth getting pissed about. Anyone from TMHF that would be interested in your protocol already read this forum anyway, so just carry on here.

Relax. And maybe keep an eye on that tren dosage, FEY. (That's just a little humor to break the tension)

Stick around and keep us updated.

 

[Wiscon]

So.....what are the potential pros and cons of a long term low dose test/tren cycle? I'll settle for hot girlfriend pics.

 

[thrombus]

it was not intended as a threat, I have messaged Millard to close my account and delete all my posts, I can not stay where this type of scientific censorship is practiced, my time will be better invested in another forum

thank you to the forum creators, it has been a fun decade here

In spite of the semantics argument, this is a very intersting thread and I hope you continue contributing to it. I am likewise on a low dose Tren regimen - call it whatever suits you - of 85 mg weekly and feel great. I initially combined it with 47 mg of of Test, but recently dropped the Test in favor of 700 iu of Hcg weekly which improved my libido and well being.


Sent from my iPhone, slacking at work, using Tapatalk

 

[Dr JIM]

TRT = Testosterone Replacement Therapy

What is implicit is relatively straightforward, the replacement of a deficient endogenously produced hormone, testosterone.

For those interested in modifying convention TRT by substituting Tren for Testosterone understand it's an experiment, which I've mentioned previously.

Are the effects of Tren be different from testosterone? Why of course they are, it's a progesterogenic AAS!

There simply is no comparison and any BB whom has used Tren understand the differences are HUGE.

With deference SF, your entitled to call your "protocol" whatever you choose, but once another anabolic is substituted for testosterone by definition it's not TRT, and using a medical term for a layman's experiment creates nothing but disagreement and confusion, especially for other less knowledgeable members than yourself, IMO.

Regards
Jim

 

[Dr JIM]

Damn iPhone dependent Freudian slip, "SF" should have been FY for foreveryoung.

Jim

 

[Michael Scally MD]

Walk on the Wild Side - Lou Reed lyrics - YouTube

Lou Reed recovering after life-saving liver transplant: wife
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