Addiction: What's up with that, yo?

[Methyl Mike]

Just wanted to share something which I pray brings hope to someone struggling today with addiction. When i got clean I celebrated by buying myself a nice watch at the 30 day mark. Now I have four of them. Yes, you can do it and yes its worth it!

God Bless

 

[earth2mondo]

I feel like addiction has a large psychological component that is too complex to quantify and lay out on paper. For example, I feel like I’m reasonably addicted to AAS. However, AAS does not have a major effect on the limbic reward system. However the brain takes all of my life experiences from the second I open my eyes in the morning to the second I go to sleep and has made a determination that my life on AAS is better, as apperantly my pleasure/pain ratio is more pleasing for life in general on AAS if that makes sense. Like compliments or looking in the mirror or being with more women. Just my 3 cents

 

[Methyl Mike]

If AAS has no effect on limbic system how do you explain drugs like primo and dbol which increase sense of well being?

 

[MFAAS]

I feel like addiction has a large psychological component that is too complex to quantify and lay out on paper. For example, I feel like I’m reasonably addicted to AAS. However, AAS does not have a major effect on the limbic reward system. However the brain takes all of my life experiences from the second I open my eyes in the morning to the second I go to sleep and has made a determination that my life on AAS is better, as apperantly my pleasure/pain ratio is more pleasing for life in general on AAS if that makes sense. Like compliments or looking in the mirror or being with more women. Just my 3 cents

You statement about the limbic system is actually not true. Well, I suppose if I am being semantic you said "major effect". Regardless, AAS have been shown to affect mu opioid receptors (MOR) and dopamine receptors, both of which are expressed greatly in the limbic system. This was demonstrated conclusively pretty recently in a paper last fall. Whether it is major or not is subjective, but it is definitely there.

 

[earth2mondo]

You statement about the limbic system is actually not true. Well, I suppose if I am being semantic you said "major effect". Regardless, AAS have been shown to affect mu opioid receptors (MOR) and dopamine receptors, both of which are expressed greatly in the limbic system. This was demonstrated conclusively pretty recently in a paper last fall. Whether it is major or not is subjective, but it is definitely there.

You statement about the limbic system is actually not true. Well, I suppose if I am being semantic you said "major effect". Regardless, AAS have been shown to affect mu opioid receptors (MOR) and dopamine receptors, both of which are expressed greatly in the limbic system. This was demonstrated conclusively pretty recently in a paper last fall. Whether it is major or not is subjective, but it is definitely there.

That’s a very interesting study, thanks for posting. I have another possible hypothesis - AAS cause increased frequency of and more intense sexual arousal. Sexual arousal in itself relies upon dopamine and endogenous opioid systems, therefore one is always in a constant state of these elevated chemicals when AAS are administered properly. Makes sense that they are slightly addictive.

 

[MFAAS]

That’s a very interesting study, thanks for posting. I have another possible hypothesis - AAS cause increased frequency of and more intense sexual arousal. Sexual arousal in itself relies upon dopamine and endogenous opioid systems, therefore one is always in a constant state of these elevated chemicals when AAS are administered properly. Makes sense that they are slightly addictive.

Yeah definitely. The study was very well executed and is extremely informative. Not sure how you normally look at studies, obviously a lot of people just read the abstracts. This is not one where anyone should do that--definitely read through the entire thing and not just the abstract/conclusion

 

[earth2mondo]

Yeah definitely. The study was very well executed and is extremely informative. Not sure how you normally look at studies, obviously a lot of people just read the abstracts. This is not one where anyone should do that--definitely read through the entire thing and not just the abstract/conclusion

I didn’t read it lol I just skimmed over it. I know everything already no one can tell me anything duh what else is there to learn
I am a lazy fuck will take a look at it again in a little lol

 

[MFAAS]

I didn’t read it lol I just skimmed over it. I know everything already no one can tell me anything duh what else is there to learn
I am a lazy fuck will take a look at it again in a little lol

I KNEW IT!!! Must've used up all your willpower lifting earlier and didn't have enough to force yourself to read the full paper, right??

Willpower is a muscle too! Gotta flex and work that shit to gain more!!

 

[pbj190]

I never said you weren't paying your share. I am referring to the Jeff Bezos. The Elon Musks. The Larry Ellisons. The Kochs and the Waltons. Etc. Etc. Small businesses/small business owners aren't the problem at all. It is the big businesses and the monopolies that are the problem.

I am NOT SAYING that any business owner shouldn't be rewarded for their efforts above and beyond the average person. I don't think anybody other than hardcore socialists think that. In your case it sounds like your taxes are out of control (I think you live in Canada?). That is in contrast to the taxes in the US where the top tax bracket and particularly the corporate taxes are far too low. It all started with fucking Reagan when he decided to cut taxes for the rich and Trickle Down Economics was formed--which is proved not to work (that is just one of many studies I could cite to support this). It just doesn't fucking work and I can't believe that the right wing still pushes this and somehow people buy it. It doesn't take much brains to look at taxes over time and look at the wealth of the top 1% and see what is happening: they aren't sharing, there's very little trickling down to The People, instead they are just hoarding all this money--essentially taking it out of circulation and actually harming the US economy.

There is no easy answer to this problem at all. What frustrates me is that some people want to deny that it's a problem that the top 1% of people control Now, the answer isn't necessarily only higher taxes. Perhaps the CEOs and executives should just simply get compensated less so that their employees can get paid more. Perhaps instead of ONLY granting massive amounts of equity to the executives, companies should have profit-sharing programs or grant stock to their employees.

We NEED to have a wealth gap (and this is shown in the ideal chart below). A McDonald's worker or a janitor should not be paid the same as an analyst, who should not be paid the same as a VP or a CEO. The problem is that the wealth gap is just too big. There should not be an exponential increase there at the end towards the top 1%.

Take a look at this data:

92% (myself included) think that the chart below is a pretty damn ideal looking wealth chart. The poor people are still pretty poor but are still above the poverty line. In this, we have a very strong middle class, then rich people are obviously much richer and the ultra-wealthy are still much wealthier than everyone else. They would have plenty of money for whatever they need/want, and easily wouldn't have to work again if they chose. They would have plenty to pass down to their children and their children after them.
View attachment 147632

This is what people THINK the wealth distribution of America looks like. The rich and wealth are still making about 100x that of other Americans--so still extremely rich. Honestly, even this isn't so bad. Yes, there are some below the poverty line, and the poor aren't doing very good. The rich are WAY wealthier than everyone else, but there's still a pretty solid middle class and the gap isn't THAT large, though maybe it could be reduced a little bit. However ,this isn't even close to reality.
View attachment 147633


Below you will see what America's wealth distribution ACTUALLY looks like. I don't understand how anybody could look at this and tell me there's nothing wrong at all. The top 1% hoard 40% of the country's wealth. The bottom 80% only hold a mere 7-fucking-percent of the country's wealth. There are 15% of people below the poverty line, and the middle class is almost non existent (and continues to shrink). The richest 1% take home 25% of the national income today, they own 50% of the countries' stocks/bonds/mutual funds. The average CEO makes 380x more money than the average worker.

Again, FIXING this problem is up for debate and something that is so complex I don't even think we can get into it here, but people need to recognize that this IS a problem. This disparity only continues to get worse as the years go by and the right wing wants to continue making it even worse than it already is. I am not a leftist or a democrat. I am extremely pro-gun/2nd amendment and I sure as fuck don't think that we should have a system that lazy people can milk to get by without working/contributing. Below you can see the other lines above overlaid, the "ideal" chosen by 90% of Americans (both conservative and liberal) and what people think it is. The disparity is jaw-dropping.

This is all hard data and there's no denying it. Is anyone here saying that there is absolutely nothing wrong with this wealth distribution chart?

View attachment 147634

Now, with such a massive portion of Americans in such dire financial straits with no way out and no light at the end of the tunnel, is it any wonder that they turn to alcohol or other drugs to just numb their pain from the stress and hopelessness they feel? Obviously there's many other factors, but what @adamcarpenter said about human beings being reduced to cattle seems correct to me. The vast majority of us have been turned into cash cows for the wealthy, but mostly just the mega-ultra-wealthy, to milk and enrich themselves with more and more money they don't even fucking need and will never, ever even be able to use! Then you have their underpaid employees of the very same companies run by these billionaires fighting to get a raise from $45k to $50k--or you have these big businesses taking out massive federal aid checks and then just laying off tens of thousands of workers anyway!!

We need to fix this problem or it will destroy this coutnry.

I’m more than a little retarded (a window-licker is how BBBG put it, I believe) when it comes to this topic. I don’t necessarily agree with everything you posted but you also provided a solid jumping-off point by including enough info and data for the interested. You’re also measured and level-headed which is rare in an online forum.

My only only contribution to this, and I can only provide a “feelz, gainz, bonerz” retort, is how much responsibility our government has in the state of the current wealth distribution. We may not be at the Russian oligarch level but it feels damn close. We throw money at programs or legislation under the guise that it is beneficial to the proletariat but in reality the money gets ‘lost’ somewhere along the way.

After re-reading that last paragraph I realized I’m not contributing much but, you know, sunken cost fallacy…

 

[FR0Z3N_B0MB3RRR]

“But they (billionaires) didn't work any harder than the single parent working 3 jobs to be able to pay rent and afford shitty health insurance and feed their kids. Or the person busting their ass 6 or 7 days a week, but still has to choose between going to the dentist or going to the doctor.”

So, no difference between a neurosurgeon and a butcher, no difference between a Michelangelo and a miner… haha



the miner is busting his ass hitting the rock just as Michelangelo, just like the mother of the children (that didnt even came out of the blue) answers at call center and cleans houses, shes busting his ass WAY more than a Hollywood actress that receive millions, and so? Haha, thats because people wanna see her acting instead of the other one answering at the phone…

Floyd Mayweather busted his ass way less than a guy who s throwing sand into the water 14h at day for 1$, thst has been given by me just for laugh maybe, What the fuck of argument that was… If you speak about a sultan that didnt do anything thats ok, but , behind every sportsman, poker player, crypto trader, instagram model, youtuber, there are Economic Dynamics, that maybe you forgot to think about

 

[marco11]

Has anyone here listened to Gabor Mates talks on addiction?

Very interesting stuff

 

[MFAAS]

Has anyone here listened to Gabor Mates talks on addiction?

Very interesting stuff

I have not but I will check it out! The name does sound familiar...

 

[Megadick3000]

I feel like addiction has a large psychological component that is too complex to quantify and lay out on paper. For example, I feel like I’m reasonably addicted to AAS. However, AAS does not have a major effect on the limbic reward system. However the brain takes all of my life experiences from the second I open my eyes in the morning to the second I go to sleep and has made a determination that my life on AAS is better, as apperantly my pleasure/pain ratio is more pleasing for life in general on AAS if that makes sense. Like compliments or looking in the mirror or being with more women. Just my 3 cents

From what ive been reading your totally wrong. AAS have substantial effects in the brain reward systems, affecting everything from serotonin and dopamine to opioid systems.

Check this very informative read for more on the subject:

Anabolic Androgenic Steroids and the Brain

 

[D Zero]

2% of the population are prone to addiction, I don't see a problem with this at all. The problem is the wrong sorts of drugs are being used. Too much crack, meth, heroin, painkillers.

What we should be doing is psychedelics, we gotta kill that ego that is out of control.

I think this country would dramatically improve if most of congress were on psychedelics, every day before the house comes to order they all pass the tray with window panes and get down to the hard business of running this country into the ground.

 

[adamcarpenter]

2% of the population are prone to addiction, I don't see a problem with this at all. The problem is the wrong sorts of drugs are being used. Too much crack, meth, heroin, painkillers.

What we should be doing is psychedelics, we gotta kill that ego that is out of control.

I think this country would dramatically improve if most of congress were on psychedelics, every day before the house comes to order they all pass the tray with window panes and get down to the hard business of running this country into the ground.

What on earth are you using as a basis for 2%? You ever been out in public? Way more than 2% are addicted to narcotics. That’s not counting alcoholism, obesity, nicotine, marijuana, and other pharmaceuticals.

 

[D Zero]

What on earth are you using as a basis for 2%? You ever been out in public? Way more than 2% are addicted to narcotics. That’s not counting alcoholism, obesity, nicotine, marijuana, and other pharmaceuticals.

That 2% are those genetically prone to drug addiction.

Granted probably 10-15% of the population use drugs and much more use alcohol, but that's not to say they are raging addicts.

Addicts concentrate in certain areas. Go into the rich areas and you have plenty of premium cocaine in fire proof safes in the basement where they can snort out of the public eye. Go to a poor urban area and you see a guy/gal assout on a sidewalk.

Americas drug problem isn't from being addicts, it's the emptiness of denying our true selves, of dividing our consciousness to fit the American ideal(Good consumers, workaholics, don't show affection). Heidegger dealt with this fundamental problem of "being", and yet Americans live in a hollow state where they avoid being grounded in themselves sitting in silence and just being content with existing without divided attention. So they fill their lives with alcohol and drugs so they can have a short undivided period of contentment with just being in themselves instead of always looking around for something to fill the emptiness.

Substitute activities: drugs, food, entertainment, they all serve the purpose to distract from that which is missing in our lives. If all of us had a community that actually genuinely cared about each other I'd doubt you've have these tragic stories of people rotting themselves inside out with addiction. Whether it be western or eastern culture, most cultures don't give two shits about their fellow man and so those with problems look for an escape and we have a lot of people looking for an escape for the American dream that never materializes for 40% of the population.

How many primitive cultures that remained untouched by modern civilization are whacked out of their minds on drugs. It's only civilization that causes all this pain and misery as things become corrupted, as the world sits on our backs and breaks us to suit its will.

 

[barbell001]

Shit Mate a 'Misanthrope!!!' - thats a new word on me LOL I am going to remember that one .....

You always come across like you enjoy helping people bud so you can't hate humans that much??!! lol

 

[clearheaded]

Canadian here
I envy the American tax system.
Believe me... my accountants had to explain our taxes to me.. as I was in shock at how much I owed lol
I made them go over it 3x hahaha

My bread and butter is buying and flipping homes.
For an easy number
Let's say 220k is my profit from a flip (That's not all I do, but it's a portion)

13%HST off the top
26.76% is deducted from.profits right off the bat as a Capital gains tax.
Literally upon sale.. 40% of my hard work is gone... before the cheque hits my bank account.
Gone lol
There are capital gains bonds etc.... but they're a whole topic of discussion by themselves.

Anything taken as salary is APPROXIMATELY 36% (If I was an idiot without a "Creative" accountant... but that's beside the point) We could get into shareholder dividends etc... but no matter what I'm getting an annual forensic audit and they will choke more out of me than I owe.
Those fuckers once audited me because I was claiming Offixe rent as an expense and didnt believe I had an office.... ummmm.. how the fuck do I have 30 staff without an office? (Sorry.... ranting here at this point lol.)

Then our HST of 13% on ANYTHING we buy.


Business tax should remain low as fuck

also its going to get worse for you as they want to crack down on flippers as artificially inflate market price of homes... thats great biz for you but screw blackjack and companies like it...

13% hst int off the top you CHARGE that as a biz owner and get alot of expenses wrote off ie won't pay near 13%.

yes we should encourage small biz. unfortuently big boys take advantage and operate 100s at a time to garner tax benefits and filter money to themselves for everything they consume. from food to expensive cars and homes all payed for with cheap untaxed $$.

we also need some sort of regulation on biz, which may appear bad on the surface but what happens when black rock owns 60% of real estate and nestle controls 80% of the food as they grow ever larger and swallow up smaller biz every year? I wonder how much control those big guys have on gov? so we will be run with NOTHING to consider other than profits for the 5 companies that own EVERYTHING as that will eventually happen and will become defecto a communist nation. I mean we aren't too far off and no monopoly law will work as they lobby gov to change rules and gov rarely want to sue corporations that feed everyone...

 

[malfeasance]

Blackrock does not buy any homes.

Facts on BlackRock Buying Houses | BlackRock

BlackRock is an active investor in the U.S. real estate market. However, buying houses or competing with individuals to purchase homes is simply not what we do.

www.blackrock.com

 

[clearheaded]

Blackrock does not buy any homes.

Facts on BlackRock Buying Houses | BlackRock

BlackRock is an active investor in the U.S. real estate market. However, buying houses or competing with individuals to purchase homes is simply not what we do.

www.blackrock.com

"Combined, we are investing approximately $120 billion1 in the U.S. residential real estate market on behalf of our clients."

yes they control rent and where most people live like condos pricing.

guess who had the most to gain in 2008... this is going to happen in canada if PP is elected as thats how he makes money..nevermind the over reach in city politics he has planned and 2 prov have made laws they can kick any elected official out of city politics AND stop any bylaw as they aren't protected by charter specifically. scary times, most people simply dont understand the danger we are in from this guy as too caught up in hating JT.

GREAT try though.