Adding test to NPP - risk and reward

[permission to land]

If you was to do the following as your last ever blast, with a spot on diet, training, sleep routine, with a view to add lean tissue that’s retainable post cycle with TRT, which would you do and why?




300 test
300 mast

VS

300 test
200 NPP
200 Mast



How much of a difference would be NPP add in the real world? Is it going to add more lean tissue when Is all said and done?

 

[BabaJagga]

dont have personal experience but isnt nandrolone THE compound that packs on muscle compared to mast which is used for cosmetic effect?

Im sorry if im wrong but reading and hearing about it, nandrolone is supposed to be on the top for packing on size?

 

[EazyE]

Second option better. You will not retain on TRT. What are your goals?

 

[permission to land]

Second option better. You will not retain on TRT. What are your goals?

People blast and retain 50/60% of their gains when PCP ing, why wouldn’t I keep it? Long as its not superpysical tissue.

Goals = lean, dry tissue gain. Minimal water retention (diet in check).

What’s going to put on the most of that ^ in 14 weeks.

 

[EazyE]

You will retain some but not all obviously. I don’t understand the point of working hard to gain the tissue and then conceding to lose half of it or more.

 

[Mongo966]

People blast and retain 50/60% of their gains when PCP ing, why wouldn’t I keep it? Long as its not superpysical tissue.

Goals = lean, dry tissue gain. Minimal water retention (diet in check).

What’s going to put on the most of that ^ in 14 weeks.

Are you planning on running this or are you asking a hypothetical? Most people shouldn't expect to keep anything from their cycles. You could potentially stay at your genetic limit tissue-wise afterwards but you'd have to work just as hard to maintain it as you did to earn it. With that in mind, I would wonder what the point is. You'll have to keep training hard and eating properly just to hold onto that tissue while gaining nothing. What's interesting or motivating about that stale grind?
I know there are lots of guys who have this idea that they'll circumvent the natty grind by jumping on steroids until they hit their genetic limit and then come off and live happily ever after. I just don't see it happening that way.

 

[UncleBuns]

Do you have experience with npp? Some have sides with nandrolone. If you tolerate it well seems fine. It is known to add water weight.

Alternatively why not just up the test and use mast to keep some water off? Mast is mildly anabolic but nowhere near test or nand.

 

[kasperl]

Do you have experience with npp? Some have sides with nandrolone. If you tolerate it well seems fine. It is known to add water weight.

Alternatively why not just up the test and use mast to keep some water off? Mast is mildly anabolic but nowhere near test or nand.

This

If you feel fine on test I would just increase the dose to 500-600mg/w and add in mast at 2-300mg/w

no need to introduce a third steroid-based compound

(add in GH if you wish)

 

[QuadFather]

Do you have experience with npp? Some have sides with nandrolone. If you tolerate it well seems fine. It is known to add water weight.

Alternatively why not just up the test and use mast to keep some water off? Mast is mildly anabolic but nowhere near test or nand.

In my experience It adds water weight and I bloat like a pregnant sea cow if test dose is higher than npp,

If npp dose is higher than test it makes me full and hard zero bloat

 

[permission to land]

Test 300
NPP 300

From what I’ve read, this would be much better for blood pressure, estro sides!

I’m not saying I’m right, but I like the idea of doing two low doses rather than one big dose. Just the way my mind works.

 

[permission to land]

Test 300
NPP 300

From what I’ve read, this would be much better for blood pressure, estro sides, water!

I’m not saying I’m right, but I like the idea of doing two low doses rather than one big dose. Just the way my mind works.

NPP 300 + Test 300

Estrogen: Moderate, easier to control
Cholesterol & Blood Pressure: Less impact, lower cardiovascular strain
Prolactin Issues: Possible, needs monitoring (Cabergoline may be needed)
Androgenic Sides: Lower (less hair loss, acne, prostate stress)
Cardiovascular Risk: Lower
Liver & Kidney Stress: Minimal


Test 600mg

Estrogen: High, requires AI (Arimidex/Aromasin)
Cholesterol & Blood Pressure: Higher risk of high BP & cholesterol
Prolactin Issues: None
Androgenic Sides: Higher (more hair loss, acne, aggression, prostate stress)
Cardiovascular Risk: Higher (more strain on the heart)
Liver & Kidney Stress: Slightly higher


If you’re aiming for the “healthier” option, NPP 300 + Test 300mg is the better choice.

• Test 600mg alone is simpler but comes with higher estrogenic and cardiovascular risks. Higher DHT also.


-

Not sure why you’d rather do more test personally

 

[permission to land]

In my experience It adds water weight and I bloat like a pregnant sea cow if test dose is higher than npp,

If npp dose is higher than test it makes me full and hard zero bloat

I believe water is mainly down to diet. You eat clean, the water is not really gonna pile on. NPP with the right diet is surely no more watery than test?

I reckon you’re more likely to put on a shitload of water with 600 mg of test than 300 mg of each.

 

[permission to land]

Are you planning on running this or are you asking a hypothetical? Most people shouldn't expect to keep anything from their cycles. You could potentially stay at your genetic limit tissue-wise afterwards but you'd have to work just as hard to maintain it as you did to earn it. With that in mind, I would wonder what the point is. You'll have to keep training hard and eating properly just to hold onto that tissue while gaining nothing. What's interesting or motivating about that stale grind?
I know there are lots of guys who have this idea that they'll circumvent the natty grind by jumping on steroids until they hit their genetic limit and then come off and live happily ever after. I just don't see it happening that way.

I respect your reply! So you’re basically saying that any gains are borrowed gains?

If that was the case, why would anyone do steroids in the first place? I can accept that you won’t keep everything, but I find it hard to believe, that anyone under genetic limit wouldn’t keep a good amount of gains as long as training diet was sufficient.

 

[permission to land]

Are you planning on running this or are you asking a hypothetical? Most people shouldn't expect to keep anything from their cycles. You could potentially stay at your genetic limit tissue-wise afterwards but you'd have to work just as hard to maintain it as you did to earn it. With that in mind, I would wonder what the point is. You'll have to keep training hard and eating properly just to hold onto that tissue while gaining nothing. What's interesting or motivating about that stale grind?
I know there are lots of guys who have this idea that they'll circumvent the natty grind by jumping on steroids until they hit their genetic limit and then come off and live happily ever after. I just don't see it happening that way.

if you’re on genuine mid to high range NMOL TRT (75mg a week puts me at 20 nmol. Range is 0-30)
and lean bulk for a year, will you keep those gains? Because that is essentially like being natural, with a good test level.

 

[permission to land]

You will retain some but not all obviously. I don’t understand the point of working hard to gain the tissue and then conceding to lose half of it or more.

How do we work hard and not lose it then?

 

[EazyE]

Stay on and keep training eating consistently

 

[Mongo966]

I respect your reply! So you’re basically saying that any gains are borrowed gains?

If that was the case, why would anyone do steroids in the first place? I can accept that you won’t keep everything, but I find it hard to believe, that anyone under genetic limit wouldn’t keep a good amount of gains as long as training diet was sufficient.

Why do we bother taking steroids to begin with? Well, I do it because i'm a certifiable moron with poor decision-making abilities.
Why do you take them?

Your genetic limit is your genetic limit regardless of how you reach it. Once you come off the gear you'll shrink down to where nature wanted you to be and you'll only stop shrinking at that point if you're working hard to retain it. Otherwise you'll shrink down to where you were as a natural non-lifting couch cushion. I'd say if you aren't in it for the long haul don't bother with the drugs. Most of the experienced people will say that, too.

if you’re on genuine mid to high range NMOL TRT (75mg a week puts me at 20 nmol. Range is 0-30)
and lean bulk for a year, will you keep those gains? Because that is essentially like being natural, with a good test level.

Sure. Those are natural levels. If your test levels remain the same and you keep training then yeah. That's different than cranking 2g of test and coming off, expecting to keep your gains longterm.
So, are you going to run this cycle? I'm only asking because you've made a few threads in recent months asking the same sort of questions. I don't mind shooting the shit about it, just wondering how much effort to put into my answers lol.

 

[lukiss96]

This thread turned in to why do we use steroids?

Some take it as a shortcut, some take it as a hobby, lifestyle, others take it for powerlifting or bodybuilding purposes.

I use Test because I wanted to be bigger and have more presence while staying relatively lean, than it was naturally possible. Wrestler physique type.

My goal is pretty much achieved and I'm just sustaining it. I don't need big Test doses to sustain that kinda body and strength, 250-375mg/week, depends on whether I want to look fuller and be a bit stronger or become leaner and meaner.

If I go on to TRT, say 150-160mg/week I of course lose a bit of that on feeling and I have less of that presence, but more athletic and maxed out natural look kinda, but quite a bit bigger and stronger.

If I come off I lose significant amount of size and look like natural who has been training his whole life,

 

[permission to land]

Why do we bother taking steroids to begin with? Well, I do it because i'm a certifiable moron with poor decision-making abilities.
Why do you take them?

Your genetic limit is your genetic limit regardless of how you reach it. Once you come off the gear you'll shrink down to where nature wanted you to be and you'll only stop shrinking at that point if you're working hard to retain it. Otherwise you'll shrink down to where you were as a natural non-lifting couch cushion. I'd say if you aren't in it for the long haul don't bother with the drugs. Most of the experienced people will say that, too.

Sure. Those are natural levels. If your test levels remain the same and you keep training then yeah. That's different than cranking 2g of test and coming off, expecting to keep your gains longterm.
So, are you going to run this cycle? I'm only asking because you've made a few threads in recent months asking the same sort of questions. I don't mind shooting the shit about it, just wondering how much effort to put into my answers lol.

This is my plan

I'm planning to run a cycle with

Phase 1: 350 mg of testosterone, 350 mg of nandrolone phenylpropionate (NPP), and 200 mg of masteron (mast) for 16 weeks. I will gradually increase the dosage over the first 10 weeks, maintaining a perfect diet, sleep routine, stress management, and training protocol.

I'll introduce NPP in week 6, which will last for the final 10 weeks of the cycle.

Phase 2: After that, I will run maintainance for a month on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). So my body gets used to the tissue.

Phaee 3: Following this, I plan to do an 8- to 10-week cutting phase with testosterone, masteron, and trenbolone at 150 mg each per week (tren 75-100mg), potentially adding in some Anavar (Var).

Final Phaee: Once the cutting phase is complete, I'll return to TRT and avoid any further blast cycles. My goal is to lean bulk until I reach around 12% body fat and then cut down to 9%, repeating the cycle as necessary.

Fortunately, I have responded well to TRT. During my bulking phases, I might use 100 mg (25 nmol), while during cutting or maintenance, I'll reduce it to 75 mg (20 nmol).

Since I’ll be turning 38 soon, by the time I reach 40, I may consider lowering my testosterone dosage to 55-65 mg a week to keep my levels as low as possible while still remaining fully functional. I was 16 nmol age 28 pre cycle and felt fine then. So I will see how much TRT I need to get me on that level.

That’s my plan. I hope to retain some size gained during the blast. Time will tell. I know one thing, I’m basically like a semi pro bodybuilder at the miniute. Love it.

I work from home and I’ve quite a chilled job, which allows me to prep every meal fresh, plan it to perfection, do my cardio, pysio, yoga etc.

I make sure the meal scores at 10/10 rating on ChatGPT.

I eat whole food. No powder. Hitting 3200 clean cals atm and gaining wel.

 

[Jin23]

This is my plan

I'm planning to run a cycle with

Phase 1: 350 mg of testosterone, 350 mg of nandrolone phenylpropionate (NPP), and 200 mg of masteron (mast) for 16 weeks. I will gradually increase the dosage over the first 10 weeks, maintaining a perfect diet, sleep routine, stress management, and training protocol.

I'll introduce NPP in week 6, which will last for the final 10 weeks of the cycle.

Phase 2: After that, I will run maintainance for a month on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). So my body gets used to the tissue.

Phaee 3: Following this, I plan to do an 8- to 10-week cutting phase with testosterone, masteron, and trenbolone at 150 mg each per week (tren 75-100mg), potentially adding in some Anavar (Var).

Final Phaee: Once the cutting phase is complete, I'll return to TRT and avoid any further blast cycles. My goal is to lean bulk until I reach around 12% body fat and then cut down to 9%, repeating the cycle as necessary.

Fortunately, I have responded well to TRT. During my bulking phases, I might use 100 mg (25 nmol), while during cutting or maintenance, I'll reduce it to 75 mg (20 nmol).

Since I’ll be turning 38 soon, by the time I reach 40, I may consider lowering my testosterone dosage to 55-65 mg a week to keep my levels as low as possible while still remaining fully functional. I was 16 nmol age 28 pre cycle and felt fine then. So I will see how much TRT I need to get me on that level.

That’s my plan. I hope to retain some size gained during the blast. Time will tell. I know one thing, I’m basically like a semi pro bodybuilder at the miniute. Love it.

I work from home and I’ve quite a chilled job, which allows me to prep every meal fresh, plan it to perfection, do my cardio, pysio, yoga etc.

I make sure the meal scores at 10/10 rating on ChatGPT.

I eat whole food. No powder. Hitting 3200 clean cals atm and gaining wel.

View attachment 314507


View attachment 314501

The coming off for a month makes little sense. After a month your test will just have dropped to normal levels - you do realize Te/Tc have a 5 day half life? unless you plan on using prop ... And even if you used a short ester, one month is simply too short. The only reason for the one month "off" time is for you to delude yourself that you are not on a 24 month cycle.