Anabolic Steroid Testing Program - AnabolicLab

[JonnySak]

Ok, found this but it is only a walk-in service for domestically-purchased drugs. I wonder if they test AAS too. Maybe our Dutch friends on MESO can add to this? :

That was one of the threads, I've seen a couple. I brought up the walk-in service as more of an example of their liberal laws, I don't think that service would fit our requirements. It may be worth contacting a lawyer there and determining if it would be legal to setup shop and do the testing. To do this correctly, it needs to be done legally. At least on the testing end, purchasing in the USA and shipping would still carry legal risk.

I am VERY VERY interested in this. If Dutch law allows this, I'd make a significant (to me, lol) contribution to startup costs. You need a location, lab equipment (GC-MS and what else?), and somebody trust worthy to do the testing. Can we ship Patrick Arnold and his equipment out there? [)]

If and once it is setup, you have options of how to run the service. Lab equipment would be the largest cost, but you still have overhead, so you need income to cover that. Maybe charge something like $10 a month for access to a private forum where the testing is archived, you could also charge individuals for their own testing, but these results would not be public since you could not be certain the products were not contaminated.

Then there's also this option from anonamoose on that SR thread:

This would be a service offered to vendors not buyers.
Vendors would pay a fee to have their product lab tested by this independent org

A vendor would contact them, and ask for certification.
Cert org would, at a random time, make a purchase without the vendor knowing it's them.
Product would be remailed to a lab tester in the NL.
Test would be completed and results posted on cert org's independent website.
Seller can than add certification to their product listing that can be tied back to the certifying orgs website.

The certifications can even come with different levels depending on frequency of random testing. If a seller want's the highest cert, they can pay extra.

You could move to that model once the organization has established itself as reputable.

Just my 2 cents

 

[KCSMAN]

bump to the top

 

[Millard]

For our book we used NorthEastLabs in the USA, a very good laboratory. Now I use an analytical lab in Switserland that just raised his prices from 185 to 250 euro (strong Swiss valuta) per estrification. Right now I've sent the first samples to a lab in Austria that has a remarkable big databank. They also test immune reactions "in vitro" (normally they used rabbits) . their prices are good but I want to find out if they deliver the results suitable for our purposes.

Please keep us posted. I know you and Bill have a lot of direct experience with lab testing. I will be certain to ask you guys more and more about this.

 

[Millard]

If Dutch law allows this, I'd make a significant (to me, lol) contribution to startup costs. You need a location, lab equipment (GC-MS and what else?), and somebody trust worthy to do the testing. Can we ship Patrick Arnold and his equipment out there? [)]

If and once it is setup, you have options of how to run the service. Lab equipment would be the largest cost, but you still have overhead, so you need income to cover that. Maybe charge something like $10 a month for access to a private forum where the testing is archived, you could also charge individuals for their own testing, but these results would not be public since you could not be certain the products were not contaminated.

This would be a service offered to vendors not buyers.
Vendors would pay a fee to have their product lab tested by this independent org

A vendor would contact them, and ask for certification.
Cert org would, at a random time, make a purchase without the vendor knowing it's them.
Product would be remailed to a lab tester in the NL.
Test would be completed and results posted on cert org's independent website.
Seller can than add certification to their product listing that can be tied back to the certifying orgs website.

The certifications can even come with different levels depending on frequency of random testing. If a seller want's the highest cert, they can pay extra.​

While your idea of establishing and owning a lab testing company in a jurisdiction where it is legal to procure and analyze controlled substances would be my first choice, it would be prohibitively expensive with a low probability of a return (or even breaking even) on the investment. The service will have to be outsourced to an established third-party with a lab testing business model that caters to a much broader clientele.

We have to scale it down.

I second your proposal of hiring Patrick Arnold and his laboratory to do such testing. Although sending him to the Netherlands might provide too many temptations for Patrick. [)]

He has privately done this type of stuff in the past by his own admission. After BALCO, he's limited it testing of products sold as dietary supplements.

The second idea doesn't really appeal to me. I am not interested in helping vendors promote the distribution of their product. My primary concern is harm reduction for members who use these products.

While the idea could conceivably be effective at helping consumers, there is a real risk that vendors will abuse the program by producing substandard batches in subsequent productions yet still use the certification seal. I guarantee that this will happen unless there is comprehensive, frequent and random testing of their entire product line.

Such comprehensive testing would be ridiculously expensive. How could this be funded? Certainly, some vendors may be capable of paying a several thousand dollars for a year of testing. But if any of their products fail to meet our certification standards, they will stop paying.

Many steroid products on the black market would fail such certification. I think vendors and manufacturers know or at least fear that this is true. And they won't be willing to take such a risk.

They will find it considerably less expensive to manipulate public opinion on the forums and in google results.

 

[Jagger34]

Im fairly new here but would certainly be willing to donate a couple hundred bucks a year to these efforts. It would save me money since I go get labwork done anyway lol

 

[JonnySak]

Then maybe just call around to different labs in Holland and be upfront that this is for harm reduction. Try and work out some volume rates.

Then you could have a bounty on this forum. Say it costs $200 to get a vial tested. Well, I'd throw in $20 on GP 1-test. When enough people contribute and reach the bounty then you test it. It's a good way of testing what the people want tested the most.

 

[Under]

Isn't one problem going to be that the members here use so many different soures that we would be testing such a very small amount of what is actually used etc...

 

[Millard]

Im fairly new here but would certainly be willing to donate a couple hundred bucks a year to these efforts. It would save me money since I go get labwork done anyway lol

Then maybe just call around to different labs in Holland and be upfront that this is for harm reduction. Try and work out some volume rates.

Then you could have a bounty on this forum. Say it costs $200 to get a vial tested. Well, I'd throw in $20 on GP 1-test. When enough people contribute and reach the bounty then you test it. It's a good way of testing what the people want tested the most.

Isn't one problem going to be that the members here use so many different soures that we would be testing such a very small amount of what is actually used etc...

Thank you and please keep the feedback coming. I am continuing to research and have yet to make a decision. If I do something along these lines, I will make sure it's done in the most professional and transparent manner possible. The chain of custody will likely be the biggest problem.

:bump:

 

[JonnySak]

Why do you see chain of custody as an issue? Isn't that more of a concern in the legal supplement market where if you post their results without a chain of custody they might sue? If you are testing black market products, they have no legal recourse, well except for WP who is regulated in their country and is all human grade. [)]. I've seen PA mention the extreme pressures that come with testing products.

But if you're testing black or gray market items, I'd be more worried about DDoS attacks or hacking of this website, or worse.

If it's about the test results legitimacy, I wouldn't worry about that either. Of course their will be reps slamming you for no chain of custody and claiming you're in cohorts with whoever, but I think for the most part, the community will believe you. And those are the ones you are trying to inform.

Unrelated to that, possession is legal in the UK and Poland right? Someone there could serve as a receiver and forwarder to the testing lab.

 

[RonnyT]

Millard, once the results are in I'll post results here.

A recognised analytical lab has a permit to receive prohibited substances for analytical reasons. Just like they can buy pharmaceutical reference standards (CRS).

 

[Dr JIM]

I suspect the later is conditionally accurate because I do believe you would need a license or be an "agent" or agency under the guise of government wether it be state, local or national to regularly test controlled substances especially schedule III

 

[Under]

Question for Millard....
Couldn't we find a reliable source that this board "knows" is legite and then as with the underground part of the forum they could be a sponsor here, then we know who we can approach them safely, because as I said before there would be a hell of alot of testing for all the products, but if the board could "say" someone was legit then that would go along way to keep people safer. Don't know about the legal side of this but would be a simpler/cheaper way of doing things, just a thought.

 

[JonnySak]

The only legit source is your local CVS.

 

[shamrockbear1]

Also a question for Millard what are the rules to be a sponsor just pay money or is there more?

 

[Millard]

Question for Millard....
Couldn't we find a reliable source that this board "knows" is legite and then as with the underground part of the forum they could be a sponsor here, then we know who we can approach them safely, because as I said before there would be a hell of alot of testing for all the products, but if the board could "say" someone was legit then that would go along way to keep people safer. Don't know about the legal side of this but would be a simpler/cheaper way of doing things, just a thought.

The only source that this forum would "know", with absolute certainty, is legitimate would be an in-house pharmacy operated by MESO. This will not happen given the illegal nature of sourcing under the Anabolic Steroid Control Act.

Even using the company brand to "endorse" a source is highly illegal and would invite charges of "conspiracy" to distribute anabolic steroids.This is why we have never endorsed sources.

So, no. I am not going to do this. I really like freedom. The best way to change the steroid laws is through education and reform and not defiant violation of such laws.

 

[Millard]

Also a question for Millard what are the rules to be a sponsor just pay money or is there more?

Thanks for the question. I will briefly explain our advertising policy.

Advertisers pay to have their banners appear on a website that targets a very specific and unique demographic. Their advertising fees do not buy an endorsement but only an opportunity for exposure to this demographic.

There are certain restrictions on the banner advertisements accepted by MESO-Rx.

In 2009, the Controlled Substances Act was amended such that it became illegal to display banner advertisements with direct hyperlinks to website domains that contained a point of sale for any controlled substance, including scheduled III anabolic steroids, that could be shipped into the United States.

Consequently, MESO-Rx does not accept banner advertisements that violate these U.S. federal banner advertising restrictions.

 

[Under]

Cool, so back to pure luck most of the time. US seems a lot stricter than uk!

 

[hulkhogan]

Cool, so back to pure luck most of the time. US seems a lot stricter than uk!

Yep They really got silly on the steroids. The country has such a knee jerk reaction that it's scary,

 

[KCSMAN]

bumping this back to the top. i hope we as a community can get this going.

 

[JonnySak]

TTT

Any updates from Tony or Millard?