Androgel and my anxiety curse

[Studmuffindrummer]

Hi everyone, I am looking for input before my 3 month follow up on androgel. I am not really feeling it.

Taking 1 pump androgel 1.62 (I have low shgb, an 8 my last test.)(also low free, low total (125), low bioavailable, low dht)

I dont know where my I am at with T, Dr will be drawing blood at this visit.

I theorize with low shbg that Id have too much free T which would get converted to estrogen. ( am I right here?

Aside from low T I have pretty debilitating social anxiety. I am taking 10mg lexapro and .5mg klonopin 2x day. Never took benzos before. I started all 3 of these within 2 weeks of each other. The klonopin has made a HUGE difference with the social anxiety....still have some issues, but when I take it, I feel like me....I can focus, I can talk to people, Im not almost delusional from anxiety anymore....my wife says I am way better to be around since taking these meds....However, I feel nothing TRT wise...I would say my T feels less than when I wasnt on androgel.

I assume this is from the combo of klonopin/lexapro possibly pending the T blood draw to see where I am.

Does anyone else on here treat anxiety and take T? It seems like treating anxiety w a benzo will by nature diminish feeling good better from T. Am I stuck deciding between low T and anxiety/panic? At this point I would have to say the anxiety takes #1 to treat....

Any help is appreciated

 

[Studmuffindrummer]

And a side mention....i hate feeling dependent on lexapro, androgel and klonopin.

 

[Studmuffindrummer]

anyone taking lexapro, klonopin and androgel? Or something similar?

 

[grey]

Aside from low T I have pretty debilitating social anxiety.

This is the issue... not the effectiveness of Androgel.


You aren't going to "feel it".

Don't post three times in a row for no reason. People will either answer or they won't. Bumping your own shit makes answers less likely, not more.

 

[Just Fish]

Hi everyone, I am looking for input before my 3 month follow up on androgel. I am not really feeling it.

Taking 1 pump androgel 1.62 (I have low shgb, an 8 my last test.)(also low free, low total (125), low bioavailable, low dht)

I dont know where my I am at with T, Dr will be drawing blood at this visit.

I theorize with low shbg that Id have too much free T which would get converted to estrogen. ( am I right here?

Aside from low T I have pretty debilitating social anxiety. I am taking 10mg lexapro and .5mg klonopin 2x day. Never took benzos before. I started all 3 of these within 2 weeks of each other. The klonopin has made a HUGE difference with the social anxiety....still have some issues, but when I take it, I feel like me....I can focus, I can talk to people, Im not almost delusional from anxiety anymore....my wife says I am way better to be around since taking these meds....However, I feel nothing TRT wise...I would say my T feels less than when I wasnt on androgel.

I assume this is from the combo of klonopin/lexapro possibly pending the T blood draw to see where I am.

Does anyone else on here treat anxiety and take T? It seems like treating anxiety w a benzo will by nature diminish feeling good better from T. Am I stuck deciding between low T and anxiety/panic? At this point I would have to say the anxiety takes #1 to treat....

Any help is appreciated

1 pump of Androgel 1.62 is not enough

 

[Dr JIM]

Hi everyone, I am looking for input before my 3 month follow up on androgel. I am not really feeling it.

Taking 1 pump androgel 1.62 (I have low shgb, an 8 my last test.)(also low free, low total (125), low bioavailable, low dht)

I dont know where my I am at with T, Dr will be drawing blood at this visit.

I theorize with low shbg that Id have too much free T which would get converted to estrogen. ( am I right here?

Aside from low T I have pretty debilitating social anxiety. I am taking 10mg lexapro and .5mg klonopin 2x day. Never took benzos before. I started all 3 of these within 2 weeks of each other. The klonopin has made a HUGE difference with the social anxiety....still have some issues, but when I take it, I feel like me....I can focus, I can talk to people, Im not almost delusional from anxiety anymore....my wife says I am way better to be around since taking these meds....However, I feel nothing TRT wise...I would say my T feels less than when I wasnt on androgel.

I assume this is from the combo of klonopin/lexapro possibly pending the T blood draw to see where I am.

Does anyone else on here treat anxiety and take T? It seems like treating anxiety w a benzo will by nature diminish feeling good better from T. Am I stuck deciding between low T and anxiety/panic? At this point I would have to say the anxiety takes #1 to treat....

Any help is appreciated

TRT is NOT a remedy nor is it approved therapy for "anxiety" and I can only hope your physician hasn't led to believe otherwise.

Fact is TRT is more likely to WORSEN the symptoms of those w emotional disorders, perhaps bc when diagnosed w "Low T" THEY anticipate a rejuvenation of sorts AND that's just not going to happen!

JIM

 

[FNP_Doc]

"TRT is NOT a remedy nor is it approved therapy for "anxiety" and I can only hope your physician hasn't led to believe otherwise."

There is a lot of literature out there of testosterones anxyliotic and anti-depressant effects. This is pretty well known.

This study shows that people with low testosterone have more social anxiety. Also therapeutic testosterone levels helped with social anxiety situations https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/06/150612143027.htm

OP: You need labs, my guess is the gel isn't boosting your T numbers high enough or your E2 may be out of whack.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

"TRT is NOT a remedy nor is it approved therapy for "anxiety" and I can only hope your physician hasn't led to believe otherwise."

There is a lot of literature out there of testosterones anxyliotic and anti-depressant effects. This is pretty well known.

This study shows that people with low testosterone have more social anxiety. Also therapeutic testosterone levels helped with social anxiety situations https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/06/150612143027.htm

OP: You need labs, my guess is the gel isn't boosting your T numbers high enough or your E2 may be out of whack.

Aren't gels fundamentally a crap way to get test (or any med) into the body in a systematic, repeatable fashion?

 

[FNP_Doc]

Aren't gels fundamentally a crap way to get test (or any med) into the body in a systematic, repeatable fashion?

Generally, yes, as many men have issues with absorption with can lead to non-therapeutic numbers. I know some doctors like Crisler like to start their guys out on gels first which is good in theory as long as the patient can get good absorption from the gel with positive feedback and labs from the patient. There are so many variables at play for absorption rates. I tried gels at first, and my numbers didn't get any higher than my pre-TRT total testosterone numbers (400-500's). Once I went injection, I started seeing real numbers and corresponding benefits.

 

[grey]

There is a lot of literature out there of testosterones anxyliotic and anti-depressant effects

There is a lot of bad literature and a few studies that were even worse.

That's why it is not an accepted treatment for anxiety.

 

[jJjburton]

Hi everyone, I am looking for input before my 3 month follow up on androgel. I am not really feeling it.

Taking 1 pump androgel 1.62 (I have low shgb, an 8 my last test.)(also low free, low total (125), low bioavailable, low dht)

I dont know where my I am at with T, Dr will be drawing blood at this visit.

I theorize with low shbg that Id have too much free T which would get converted to estrogen. ( am I right here?

Aside from low T I have pretty debilitating social anxiety. I am taking 10mg lexapro and .5mg klonopin 2x day. Never took benzos before. I started all 3 of these within 2 weeks of each other. The klonopin has made a HUGE difference with the social anxiety....still have some issues, but when I take it, I feel like me....I can focus, I can talk to people, Im not almost delusional from anxiety anymore....my wife says I am way better to be around since taking these meds....However, I feel nothing TRT wise...I would say my T feels less than when I wasnt on androgel.

I assume this is from the combo of klonopin/lexapro possibly pending the T blood draw to see where I am.

Does anyone else on here treat anxiety and take T? It seems like treating anxiety w a benzo will by nature diminish feeling good better from T. Am I stuck deciding between low T and anxiety/panic? At this point I would have to say the anxiety takes #1 to treat....

Any help is appreciated

I deal with the same thing. I am on 20 mg of lexapro. I was trying to get off it and was for 8 weeks but had a headache and couldnt get out of the bed THE WHOLE TIME. For 8 weeks.

I hve been on lexapro or 3 yrs. Also I was taking benzos but got addicted to them and took way to much of them. So I dont take them anymore. I am done with them. So be careful because you start to think that the benzos are amazing for anxiety and they are. So why not take 3 a day then 4. Since they work so well. But then your taking 10 a day and blacking out. They ause you to have severe memory loss when above 2 mg a day.

So I am now taking 200 mg of test a week injection and its amazing.

I also take suboxone at 4 mg a day. That helps with anxiety off label.

So I feel great. What I think happened to you is that your Test is still low. Your body is officially no making test by itself anymore so in the beggining you had the addition of your body making test and another exogenous test. But now its just exugenous test, and its not a high enough dosage. So You should just do injection.

My friend went through the same thing for 5 months. the gel didnt get him above 500. and when his body stopped making test it didnt go above 300. Now he is on injection and feel great. With a test level at 700-800.

I suggest doing injection you will feel so much better. Or increase gel dosage a lot.

But your bloodwork will show it.

 

[Just Fish]

Generally, yes, as many men have issues with absorption with can lead to non-therapeutic numbers. I know some doctors like Crisler like to start their guys out on gels first which is good in theory as long as the patient can get good absorption from the gel with positive feedback and labs from the patient. There are so many variables at play for absorption rates. I tried gels at first, and my numbers didn't get any higher than my pre-TRT total testosterone numbers (400-500's). Once I went injection, I started seeing real numbers and corresponding benefits.

That's because with a pre-Trt total test number of 400-500 you were in the mid to low range for testosterone. You had no medical need for Trt

 

[FNP_Doc]

//That's because with a pre-Trt total test number of 400-500 you were in the mid to low range for testosterone. You had no medical need for Trt//

And what total testosterone numbers dictate a "medical need" for prescribing exogenous testosterone?

 

[FNP_Doc]

There is a lot of bad literature and a few studies that were even worse.

That's why it is not an accepted treatment for anxiety.

Please elaborate on what makes these studies bad.

 

[grey]

Please elaborate on what makes these studies bad.

A. poor to no controls, primarily in the area of similar pre/post diagnosis treatment before the testosterone administration...

AND

B. Incredibly small N size...

AND

C. stunningly uncontrolled demographics


I.e. for A: wildly mismatched portions of the "study" group taking other anti-depressants and meds compared to controls etc... Why are ANY of them taking other psychoactive substances during an anti-depressant study of test?

This is why the studies made zero waves outside of hack clinics.

 

[FNP_Doc]

A. poor to no controls, primarily in the area of similar pre/post diagnosis treatment before the testosterone administration...

AND

B. Incredibly small N size...

AND

C. stunningly uncontrolled demographics


I.e. for A: wildly mismatched portions of the "study" group taking other anti-depressants and meds compared to controls etc... Why are ANY of them taking other psychoactive substances during an anti-depressant study of test?

This is why the studies made zero waves outside of hack clinics.

Have you read the study by Aydogan et al.,?

Using Testosterone for mood problems is still in its infancy . Testosterones side effect profile is much better than psychotropic medications . You would think one of my professors throughout my docotorate program would have mentioned issues with external validity with my papers I submitted with corresponding RCTs showing how testosterone improved QoL parameters , including those of depression and anxiety .

 

[Studmuffindrummer]

I deal with the same thing. I am on 20 mg of lexapro. I was trying to get off it and was for 8 weeks but had a headache and couldnt get out of the bed THE WHOLE TIME. For 8 weeks.

I hve been on lexapro or 3 yrs. Also I was taking benzos but got addicted to them and took way to much of them. So I dont take them anymore. I am done with them. So be careful because you start to think that the benzos are amazing for anxiety and they are. So why not take 3 a day then 4. Since they work so well. But then your taking 10 a day and blacking out. They ause you to have severe memory loss when above 2 mg a day.

So I am now taking 200 mg of test a week injection and its amazing.

I also take suboxone at 4 mg a day. That helps with anxiety off label.

So I feel great. What I think happened to you is that your Test is still low. Your body is officially no making test by itself anymore so in the beggining you had the addition of your body making test and another exogenous test. But now its just exugenous test, and its not a high enough dosage. So You should just do injection.

My friend went through the same thing for 5 months. the gel didnt get him above 500. and when his body stopped making test it didnt go above 300. Now he is on injection and feel great. With a test level at 700-800.

I suggest doing injection you will feel so much better. Or increase gel dosage a lot.

But your bloodwork will show it.

I am taking the dose as prescribed...but I appreciate the feedback. I go next week for the lab. I will follow up and see where I am at. Thanks.

 

[jJjburton]

I am taking the dose as prescribed...but I appreciate the feedback. I go next week for the lab. I will follow up and see where I am at. Thanks.

So was I lol. But goodluck.

 

[Studmuffindrummer]

Have you read the study by Aydogan et al.,?

Using Testosterone for mood problems is still in its infancy . Testosterones side effect profile is much better than psychotropic medications . You would think one of my professors throughout my docotorate program would have mentioned issues with external validity with my papers I submitted with corresponding RCTs showing how testosterone improved QoL parameters , including those of depression and anxiety .

I am being treated for low T for because I am low T...it was not intended to be for mood treatment or anxiety...just started treating both simultaneoisly. I know this is my personal experience and you're talking about a more broad study. I would think it help if one is as low as I was. Mentally I feel better. I will update my labs. Appreciate everyone's feedback and insight.

 

[Just Fish]

//That's because with a pre-Trt total test number of 400-500 you were in the mid to low range for testosterone. You had no medical need for Trt//

And what total testosterone numbers dictate a "medical need" for prescribing exogenous testosterone?

Look at the range for both free and total testosterone on your bloodwork. Unless you are below range you will not be prescribed testosterone by a legitimate doctor.