Another Newbie Post...

[Greg Velo]

Hi y'all!
So.. As the title says.. Another newbie post here!
I'm planning on doing my first cycle, I've been thinking about that for a year and did a bunch of solid research but still have some questions. I really want to do it with the maximum knowledge and in the most "safe" way possible.
I'm 24 years old, I've been lifting for almost 5 years. I'm 5'8" and weigh 170 lbs at around 12% bodyfat.
My main goal with the cycle is to gain as much muscle as possible with the minimum amount of fat.

My cycle would look like this (really basic I guess)

Week 1-12 Test E 250 mg (twice a week)
Week 1-12 Adex .25/.5 mg EOD (just in case of bloatong or itchy nipples)

PCT
Week 15-18 Nolvadex 40/40/20/20
Week 15-18 Clomid 75/50/50/50

NOTE: I don't want to use Adex unless it's needed because I want to see if I'm prone to gyno or/and bloating.
I Want to use Testosterone only because I want to see how my body reacts to it, so I'm not stacking anything with it.

I'm gonna train 6 days a week and eat 500 cals above maintenance.

I have two questions:

1. Should I do 500 or 600 mgs of Test per week?

2. Is my PCT alright?

I want to have everything sorted out and on hand before I start anything, so if you think that something's not quite alright, please tell me.

 

[legendary]

You should prob wait a few more years. Your most likely still producing a good amount of test. Also if u go forth with it do pre bloods and 6 weeks in and post bloods. Make sure u have all this in your budget along with extra food cost. I personally don't use Adex until I get bloods. But that's just me. And I would not start in till beginning of 2nd week. What's your training history?

 

[Greg Velo]

You should prob wait a few more years. Your most likely still producing a good amount of test. Also if u go forth with it do pre bloods and 6 weeks in and post bloods. Make sure u have all this in your budget along with extra food cost. I personally don't use Adex until I get bloods. But that's just me. And I would not start in till beginning of 2nd week. What's your training history?

Hi. Thanks for your reply. I forgot to add that I got Testosterone and free testosterone results last week.. 694 ng/dl for total testosterone and 43.5 pg/ml for free testosterone.. I still have to do the other blood work..

My training is based on the big compound exercises and just later I do some isolation work (more bodybuilding style).

I know that I should wait. But right now I have the time and the dedication to do that. I don't know if in a couple of years I'd have the time and dedication.

 

[legendary]

You have good numbers. I wouldn't chance messing that up. Just giving my opinion man.

 

[Greg Velo]

You have good numbers. I wouldn't chance messing that up. Just giving my opinion man.

I see what you're saying. Thanks for your frank opinion.

My question is: is it more than likely that my test won't recover to my actual numbers?

 

[legendary]

Yes. If I could do it again I would of waited till my numbers naturally dropped. But 15 years ago we really didn't have all the info we have now. U don't wanna start trt in your early 30s. It's your body man. But I know it's tempting. I would deff wait tho. See what others say.

 

[legendary]

Your numbers could recover back to normal, or lower and some people never recover. It's a roll of the dice

 

[Greg Velo]

Your numbers could recover back to normal, or lower and some people never recover. It's a roll of the dice

Thanks for your insight man. It's really helpful.

 

[oldmusclemike]

Welcome to the board !

I'm gonna just concur with @legendary said in all his posts. Great advice. I just want to add that you need to learn more about Estrogen, Prolactin and Progesterone.
Most concern is that you completely understand what an AI is used for and that being to control your Estrogen not only for Gyno.

There are a host of unwanted and unhealthy side effects in males with high estrogen, specifically Estradiol (E2). So there are many more reasons to use an AI to control that. High E2 can lead to high Prolactin which has it's own unwanted side effects.

Do some more research in that area. I don't want to spoon feed you but I can list the most prominent side of E2. But you need a full understanding.

Good Luck

 

[oldmusclemike]

Oh listen OP do not wait to see if you are prone to Gyno. That's like not tying off a safety rope until you see if you are falling off the roof. An AI is preventative medicine. If you see Gyno then you have Gyno then what? Bad Idea but do as @legendary said and get blood work to monitor accurately. If you are aware of them all it will help you see n feel between BW.

 

[Greg Velo]

Welcome to the board !

I'm gonna just concur with @legendary said in all his posts. Great advice. I just want to add that you need to learn more about Estrogen, Prolactin and Progesterone.
Most concern is that you completely understand what an AI is used for and that being to control your Estrogen not only for Gyno.

There are a host of unwanted and unhealthy side effects in males with high estrogen, specifically Estradiol (E2). So there are many more reasons to use an AI to control that. High E2 can lead to high Prolactin which has it's own unwanted side effects.

Do some more research in that area. I don't want to spoon feed you but I can list the most prominent side of E2. But you need a full understanding.

Good Luck

Oh listen OP do not wait to see if you are prone to Gyno. That's like not tying off a safety rope until you see if you are falling off the roof. An AI is preventative medicine. If you see Gyno then you have Gyno then what? Bad Idea but do as @legendary said and get blood work to monitor accurately. If you are aware of them all it will help you see n feel between BW.

Thanks for your reply.

I understand that I need to do some more research on that. There is so much crap information along with legit information that I just can't figure out which one is true. But I'll do my best, that's why I'm on this board in the first place!

Question about blood work.. I got my test levels checked, what else should I get checked pre cycle?

What dose of adex as preventive measure do you suggest? .25 EOD or more?

Thank you so much.

 

[legendary]

The Basics of Ordering Bloodwork

 

[oldmusclemike]

Thanks for your reply.

I understand that I need to do some more research on that. There is so much crap information along with legit information that I just can't figure out which one is true. But I'll do my best, that's why I'm on this board in the first place!

Question about blood work.. I got my test levels checked, what else should I get checked pre cycle?

What dose of adex as preventive measure do you suggest? .25 EOD or more?

Thank you so much.

What is so important that I talk about as well as @legendary is the estradiol. This is how you check your level. The BW will tell you the ranges.

What you need to ask for is a male sensitive assay. Some people don't do the sensitive assay because I think it costs more and the figure it out.?? IMOP get the sensitive and nothing to figure out.

You are doing 500mgs of Test and so and that's not a high dose Sooo .25 EOD should be sufficient. Your Q's about 500 or 600mgs is that 500mgs is plenty and at this pint in your career will make NO difference but use more Test and a that being a waste. Now listen it's important NOT to crash your E2 by overdosing your Adex. There are a host of side with that and most mimic the same as high E2.

Crashing as I have experienced twice in my career is just horrible and you will feel like shit.... Yea lol

 

[Greg Velo]

What is so important that I talk about as well as @legendary is the estradiol. This is how you check your level. The BW will tell you the ranges.

What you need to ask for is a male sensitive assay. Some people don't do the sensitive assay because I think it costs more and the figure it out.?? IMOP get the sensitive and nothing to figure out.

You are doing 500mgs of Test and so and that's not a high dose Sooo .25 EOD should be sufficient. Your Q's about 500 or 600mgs is that 500mgs is plenty and at this pint in your career will make NO difference but use more Test and a that being a waste. Now listen it's important NOT to crash your E2 by overdosing your Adex. There are a host of side with that and most mimic the same as high E2.

Crashing as I have experienced twice in my career is just horrible and you will feel like shit.... Yea lol

So .25 adex EOD or ED? You are being really helpful, thank you man.

 

[oldmusclemike]

So .25 adex EOD or ED? You are being really helpful, thank you man.

Start with EOD. Some people (not many) wait before starting the Adex. I really don't know why because as soon as you inject the Test it will shut you down and raise your Test level. Remember when the test rises so follows the Estrogen as your body want to find that balance between the two.

Then with some compounds like Testosterone cause the enzyme Aromatase to rise. Ergo Gyno and water retention.
Read, read, read about all of what I mention you need to get a full understanding yourself.

 

[Greg Velo]

Start with EOD. Some people (not many) wait before starting the Adex. I really don't know why because as soon as you inject the Test it will shut you down and raise your Test level. Remember when the test rises so follows the Estrogen as your body want to find that balance between the two.

Then with some compounds like Testosterone cause the enzyme Aromatase to rise. Ergo Gyno and water retention.
Read, read, read about all of what I mention you need to get a full understanding yourself.

Thank you so much. I'll read more and more about this.

Another thing: with that dosage of testosterone what are the chances of getting my natural testosterone back as it is? Is it necessar to add HCG?

 

[oldmusclemike]

In my opinion NO not necessary but it will help as I have been told. I started at age 30 ish in 80' and never have used it. Doing the proper PCT you will recover. Get more info on this and don't just go by me.

 

[Greg Velo]

In my opinion NO not necessary but it will help as I have been told. I started at age 30 ish in 80' and never have used it. Doing the proper PCT you will recover. Get more info on this and don't just go by me.

Last question.. how does my PCT look? Does it look alright?

 

[oldmusclemike]

Last question.. how does my PCT look? Does it look alright?

I believe so. But you can lower the Nolva to 40/20/20/20

Listen you need to get the money up from for especially the blood work. You need the based line before and then 4 weeks in and then again mid stream if you have some E2 problems. It's so important not only for other BW info but as I keep saying your estradiol (E2) Don't be like me and catch your self without $$$ for blood work.

Good Luck now and read up on all everyone has told you in the reply's.

 

[Penguin15]

To piggy back with a question on this thread, what bloodtest should I order from labsmd.com (blood before first use - first timer - 31y/o)? Could someone tell me the specific test?

Would this be ok? Hormone Panel with F&T Testosterone --
Complete Blood Count / CBC (includes Differential and Platelets): WBC, RBC, Hemoglobin, Hematocrit, MCV, MCH, MCHC, RDW, Platelet Count, MPV and Differential (Absolute and Percent - Neutrophils, Lymphocytes, Monocytes, Eosinophils, and Basophils)
Comprehensive Metabolic Profile ( includes eGFR ): Albumin, Albumin/Globulin Ratio (calculated), Alkaline Phosphatase, ALT, AST, BUN/Creatinine Ration, Calcium, Carbon Dioxide, Chloride, Creatinine with GFR Estimated, Globulin (calculated), Glucose, Potassium, Sodium, Total Bilirubin, Total Protein, Urea Nitrogen
Estradiol
Follicle-Stimulating Hormone (FSH)
Luteinizing Hormone (LH)
Testosterone, Free and Total, LC/MS/MS
(This testosterone test will also provide results when the total testosterone value is >1500 but <10,000)


or maybe this?
Hormone Panel for Females --
Complete Blood Count / CBC (includes Differential and Platelets): WBC, RBC, Hemoglobin, Hematocrit, MCV, MCH, MCHC, RDW, Platelet Count, MPV and Differential (Absolute and Percent - Neutrophils, Lymphocytes, Monocytes, Eosinophils, and Basophils)
Comprehensive Metabolic Profile ( includes eGFR ): Albumin, Albumin/Globulin Ratio (calculated), Alkaline Phosphatase, ALT, AST, BUN/Creatinine Ration, Calcium, Carbon Dioxide, Chloride, Creatinine with GFR Estimated, Globulin (calculated), Glucose, Potassium, Sodium, Total Bilirubin, Total Protein, Urea Nitrogen
Estradiol
Follicle-Stimulating Hormone (FSH)
Luteinizing Hormone (LH)
Testosterone Total LC/MS/MS (This testosterone test will also provide results when the total testosterone value is >1500.)