Another Question for SWALE

[Taoseeker]

This is a long-winded question but I wanted you to have enough information to answer it.

I will be 62. I used steroids for about one and a half years between the age of 58 and 60. I started lifting when I was about 27 got pretty big naturally and then decided to see what would happen with juice.

I went from 185 to 230 was handling pretty heavy weights (leg pressing 500+) got some injuries and quit lifting altogether. During this time I started using GHB and continued for about a year.

Use to have strong libido (of course throught the roof with 1+ gram of test and GHB. Now my total testosterone is about 300 and that is fairly consistent over the last two tests. I havent done any steroids in 2 years. Now my libido is somewhat weak. No problem with erections.

I take a vigorous number of supplements, alpha lapoic, acetyl-l-carnatine, C, antioxidants, etc. Am never sick. Do circuit training and weigh about 190.

That is the background for the question: I have excellent HDL (usually 65-75) LDL ratio (2:1), a low body temperature (97.3), feel good, good cognative ability, and good genetics for longevity. My blood pressure averages 110-100 over 70-60. My amateur research indicates a strong relationship between HDL level and longevity, and between body temperature and longevity.

In other words, I should live a long and fruitful life if I dont screw up. I would like a stronger libido and the good effects of additonal testosterone are difficult to resist. I am, however, hesitant to do Androgel or any combination of TRT products because the research is inconclusive (mainstream medical type).

Should I just leave well enough alone, continue to exercise, eat right, etc. or is there any recent research evidence that would help swing my decision?

 

[buck]

Have you had your T levels checked? If so could you post the results and ranges.

 

[Taoseeker]

My total testosterone has been around 300 the last 2 times I had it tested. Once it was 400, but that was about 6 months after I quite using gear.

I am ignorant about the different measures of testosterone you guys discuss. I did take HCG during some of my cycles, but at that time, everyone was recommending taking 2000 IU at a time after the end of the cycle. There were some recommendations supporting 250 IU per day during the cycle.

When you look at the changes in beliefs and protocols over the last 3 years, it is reasonable to be suspicious of information.

 

[earthdog]

I think what Buck was after was that there are different normal ranges depending upon what brand or type of lab test the lab administers. Meaning, given lab test brand A, your total T might be 300 where the normal range is 240-827, whereas if you perform lab test brand B on the same sample, your total T might be 450 where the normal range is 300-1000. So that's why if you say your levels were 300, it's not that meaningful without the ranges. If you have a printout of the results, the range is normally on there. If you want to get a copy of your results and you are in the US, the lab is required by law to give it to you. And another thing, you have only been tested for total T. In order to really evaluate your situation, a competent TRT physician would need to give you a much broader range of tests. Take a look at Swale's (Dr. John Crisler) TRT: A recipe for success in the stickies above for the different tests that he gives before administering TRT.

It sounds like you are pretty healthy already. Good for you! In the end the decision is going to be up to you. Realize that you are talking to a bunch of guys, many much younger than you, who are already on TRT as you read through the posts here. TRT would probably make a difference in your libido and how you feel in general. Personally, I'm 39, and have been on TRT for a few months, and I feel a lot better, even younger, than before. I realize that what I've said doesn't really answer your question. I have some links to different studies on another computer that I will post here tomorrow. Realize that mainstream medicine is a little behind the curve when it comes to effectively administering TRT. Anyway, good luck with whatever you decide!

 

[Taoseeker]

Most of the test I've had done used a range mid 200s to 800 as the normal range. I just checked my files, and I dont have copies of the last two, but I am fairly sure they use those parameters.

Thanks for your thorough response. I realize my situation is markedly different than most others on this board. I am not responding to a clinical condition as much as trying to optimize my life experience.

If you ever take GHB, you experience mood elevation, euphoria, a sense of well-being, and libido that is unattainable with any other substance. If it had not been demonized by politicians using it as a means to manipulate the public, we could still use this recreationally.

When on high levels of test, your subjective/operating consciousness is hightened. There is cerebral clarity and energy, not to mention sensuality.

I may be in quest of an unattainable Grail for someone my age. Or at least unwilling to risk my longevity for the luxury of feeling better now.

 

[earthdog]

So you are in the low-normal range. Yes, I think TRT would help in the areas you talked about.

Here are the links:

http://archfami.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/8/3/257
http://www.ismh.org/mhn/mhn19.htm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/01/040129072631.htm

Mainstream stuff for the most part. Personally I think Dr. Crisler's protocol is the way to go. But you won't see any studies confirming his treatments because you have to have the time and funding to do studies, and that is not where his priorities lie. Also check out http://www.worldhealth.net/.

 

[Taoseeker]

Earthdog, thanks for the reference material. I dont think SWALE has the time to answer all the questions that are being put to him.

What is the consensus (if there is one) of board members on ultra-hot. It works differently and claims to raise test levels without shuting down HPTA. If it is a valid claim, it would be a better choice for TRT than using test.

www.alrindustries.com/ultra-hot.htm

What do you and others think of this?

 

[greatgro]

What is the consensus (if there is one) of board members on ultra-hot. It works differently and claims to raise test levels without shuting down HPTA. If it is a valid claim, it would be a better choice for TRT than using test.

www.alrindustries.com/ultra-hot.htm

What do you and others think of this?

Well as a Nutritionist, I feel qualified to answer this question. Taoseeker, I hate to be the one to break it to you, but most supplements aren't worth the bottle they're in. And most companies than are only on the internet and talk about hormones and such are completely bogus.

The reality of supplements are this: if they really manipulated hormones well, they would NOT be legal. Supplement companies aren't even legally allowed to mention they have "drug-like effects". If they do, the FDA can shut them down and the product. That's why many of these companies are fly-by nighters on the internet. There one day, gone the next.

You can't believe MOST of what you read on the internet. This (Meso) is one of the few sites that is an exception. If this ultra-hot really worked as it said, it would not be legal. Besides, if there was a supplement that could solve all of our problems, would we all really be here injecting and rubbing hormones?

I've never heard of this company and I'm pretty sure it's for good reason. Please don't waste your money. It's a nice fantasy to think supplements are magic, but unfortunately, it's just that...a fantasy.

Sorry to disappoint you, but someone had to deliver the bad news.

 

[Taoseeker]

Great Gro;

I agree with you in principle. However, prohormones seem to be eliciting anabolic effects and various chemical combinations are being sold legally. It is true that the government tries to stay ahead of the curve in criminalizing any substance that elicits euphoria or can be used to enhance athletic ability.

Ultra Hot, Nolvadex XT, and Attack are not prohormones and work through other mechanisms to increase testosterone according to bodybuilders who have used them. Many have done baseline testosterone measures and then measured their levels after a couple of weeks and found them to be up to 300% higher.

Bodybuilders are by nature initially naive and optimistic then become cynical and pessimistic about supplements that claim to have anabolic effects. You can follow any supplement protocol when you are in your 20s and see results, mostly because your natural test is high and increasing because of your training.

When you get to be 50 and above, you find that 1 gram of test will slap 30 lbs of muscle on you in 8 weeks and creatine (and the 10 other miracle substances) don't do jack.

But I know that the boy chemist who make and market products are not all trying to run scams. If a manufacturer creates an effective product and it is not susceptable to delegalization, he will make a fortune. Many boy chemist are working hard to find ways to increase test levels with substances that the FDA cannot attack. I am just optimistic to believe that anything is possible with chemistry so I am guardedly optimistic about new products and collect reliable experiential data to draw conclusions.

If you find an experienced body builder that has been cycling for years and they try a product, you are getting some useful information; particularly if they do pre and post bloodwork. I would be interested in your opinion after you collected some more information on these products.

We may hear from othes on this board who have used the products.

 

[mranak]

...prohormones seem to be eliciting anabolic effects and various chemical combinations are being sold legally.

Prohormones have been scheduled substances (illegal) in the United States for a couple of months now.

I do see your point that it is possible for a suppliment to changes hormoens. I think that ZMA might be such an example. To be honest, I have never heard of "Ultra Hot" and I think that if it worked, then I probably would have heard about it on the "boards." So, it is technically possible that it works, but very unlikely.

You mentioned that you were 185 before your AAS use and now you are only at 190. Did you loose your gains slowly or quickly?

oh yeah: welcome.