Any investors here that use handhelds???

Hogg

New Member
I purchased a palm tungsten C this week and have been looking at the MidCast Pro software from HIllCast.com.

Is anyone using the midcast service or know of any other good analysis and quote software for the Palm tungsten C? I liked the MarketCE software but that is for PocketPC handhelds only. I'm looking for something that give me the charting of MarketCE with a realtime feed via subscription.

Any insight would be appreciated.

Oh, since we're on the subject, is anyone using a real-time level 2 web-based service?
 
Hogg said:
I purchased a palm tungsten C this week and have been looking at the MidCast Pro software from HIllCast.com.

Is anyone using the midcast service or know of any other good analysis and quote software for the Palm tungsten C? I liked the MarketCE software but that is for PocketPC handhelds only. I'm looking for something that give me the charting of MarketCE with a realtime feed via subscription.

Any insight would be appreciated.

Oh, since we're on the subject, is anyone using a real-time level 2 web-based service?

man-your all over those stocks huh? cant miss a beat!
 
kwik98gt said:
man-your all over those stocks huh? cant miss a beat!

I made the decision to buy a handheld because this thing will enable me to literallyl lie in bed while doing my research. Now during the day while the market is active, I can watch the intraday trends and wait for low points to do my buying.....well, and selling I suppose though I tend to buy for a longer hold. But nevertheless, I'm the type of guy that will look for a stock that is trading at a discount to its intrinsic value and still quabble over paying as little as I can for it. 10 cents a share matters to me mentally, I've not managed to break myself of that habit yet.....nor should I expect to.....for soo many years, we've heard statements like "I'm not paying a dime more than its worth"....well, in my case, I want it for less than it is worth and I want to keep an extra dime if I can. 10 cents is $ 100 on 1000 shares. I can practically describe the texture and smell of a $ 100 bill in such detail that you would think that I fucked it.....I'm just a poor portuguese kid who savors every moment when the pot that i piss in becomes a little larger.....no matter how small the increment.
 
i hope your sources don't accept cash payment after you are done getting acquainted with your bills lol
 
thick said:
i hope your sources don't accept cash payment after you are done getting acquainted with your bills lol

You should see what my checks look like when I file my quarterly taxes ...-Ah harro, spheshul presen fo yu mista revenue man :D
 
HOGG, do you do a lot of option trading??
Shit, now that they've lowered the exchange fee's for level 2 to $10 a month, it's affordable to everyone.
I don't use a handheld so I don't have an answer for you. I use Island at home.
 
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Options kick ass! They are more difficult for people to understand, but I dont see why they arent more popular for short-term traders.
 
=uCONN MIKE{/QUOTE]

My bent has been toward value investing, not trading however, I can think of a couple of opportunities in the past couple of months where I should have sold short and did not. Washington Mutual was prime to short and so was Amlyn Pharmaceuticals right after I had sold at the peak.

The sad thing is, though I buy to hold for at least a year, I still watch quotes all day long at work.....it has been a good learning experience for me because I have learned the weekly and intraday patterns to maximize my position either buying or selling. I have been thinking about the L2 data for a while now because I see the big players hitting > $ 5 stock on nasdaq and running it up, then they get out, then a couple of weeks later, they will come back and touch the stock again. If you look at SIRI, it has been played like a flute. When they stopped playing SIRI, the moved on to another $ 2-3 stock and drove it up a buck, let all the suckers climb on, then they dumped it. Next week, back to SIRI.....it is almost as though a small pool of guys with a lot of money make the market and loot the late players out of their money. Fascinating. Have you noticed this?
 
Hogg, yes, a lot of people just channel stocks like that and they make a killing. Who do you use for your charting service??
I use TC2000 by worden Brothers, it is incredible. It shows real time volume flowing in and out which makes it a breeze to successfully channel or hit on options.

Bob, you are right. Options are easy once you understand the concept of how they work and how they move based on earnings and news. Most people think that they should buy options 2 or 3 months out to give them room to move. Big mistake. Options are meant to be bought and sold within 72 hours in my experience. I did have a hard time understanding how they work but once it clicked it was easy.
 
Im clueless about stocks but could some1 tell me if a share of zone labs is expensive right now plez. Thats the same company that makes zone alarm.
 
Mike, I dont mind looking at options that are a few months out, particularly if you are looking for a large move in the underlying stock. But options that mature in 1-2 months can be a great vehicle for some serious gains. If anyone hasnt looked into how options work, then I would highly suggest doing some searches to see how they work and how not to get your ass handed to you.

Not even really an overview, but a quick note on how options move. Take a stock that is priced at $50. A 10% move in the stock price usually equates to 20-100%+ move in an option price. A small move in the stock means a much bigger move for the options.

Well worth educating oneself on options and using that as a tool to increase your portfolio. I dont recommend this for very conservative investors, people who dont do any of their own research, and I dont recommend using a large % of your current portfolio value.
 
Yes Bob, and also to all those new at option investing--Do Not buy options on Margin... HaHa
The only thing I dont like about holding on to an option for more than a couple days is, what if there is unexpected bad news?? We know that the only reasons stocks move up and down is because of earnings and news. What if there is a preannouncement of lower than expected earnings? If you're not on that conference call you're screwed. I try to trade with a conservative approach (if you can call trading options conservative!!) and I may leave more $$$ on the table but I usually don't get beat bad.
 
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Uconn Mike said:
Hogg, yes, a lot of people just channel stocks like that and they make a killing. Who do you use for your charting service??

I use TC2000 by worden Brothers, it is incredible. It shows real time volume flowing in and out which makes it a breeze to successfully channel or hit on options.

Presently, I am stuck with the Waterhouse web-based charting app. It gives me volume by price and the usual graph overlays. That is why I am looking for a better service. Waterhouse has some kind of integrated trading and analysis console but you have to become a premium select plus customer which is driven by your number of trades per quarter, not dollar value of your holdings in their account. Suffice to say that I will never trade 70 times a quarter so I will not be able to get access to the app.

I looked at omega tradestation packaged with the Reuters service. It is $ 59.95/mth but I have not had a chance to see the application in the real.

What are the specifics on your island service? How did you subscribe? All I could find on their site is a service called 'ITCH' for $ 400/mth.
 
Bob Smith said:
I dont recommend this for very conservative investors, people who dont do any of their own research, and I dont recommend using a large % of your current portfolio value.

Options are a speculators game, not an investors game. A true 'investor' is one who buys the business, not simply a piece of paper that can be traded in the market......one who invests seeks return on investment through return on equity and that is dependent upon the underlying business, the market means absolutely nothing on a day to day basis.

A speculator on the other hand rides the market....and options are truly a form of riding the market.

For that matter, I would consider the shrewdest investor to be one who spends quite a bit of time doing research.......chart reading on the other hand is pure speculation......betting on market sentiment and trends is very similar to going to vegas for the weekend in my opinion.....and in between, there are passive investors buy mutual funds and/or indexes as it takes the least effort to get into the market.....and then there are the scared children who stay in bonds all of their lives.
 
mark me down for mutual funds. nice and easy. someday i would like to have a little extra cash and learn myself about some options :D
 
Uconn Mike said:
Yes Bob, and also to all those new at option investing--Do Not buy options on Margin... HaHa

Yeah, very bad idea for about 99.9% of people.

Uconn Mike said:
We know that the only reasons stocks move up and down is because of earnings and news.

Cmon, dont tell me you are one of those EMH (efficient market hypothesis) guys! lol

Hogg, I do tend to agree with you on almost all of your points. But as I said (or maybe should have elaborated on mroe completely), is that the majority of a persons portfolio should be relegated to mutual funds (for rank beginnners aand those without time to do research), stocks, and some bonds depending on your temperament. If you are a conservative investor, then those should make up about 90% of your holdings, allowing for always having some cash on hand. For a more aggressive investor, options offer an opportunity for increased returns, usually with increased risk. Most people dont realize that options are available (which is a good thing), and even people who know the basics about options often dont realize that there are strategies available that can limit (or even eliminate) downside potential. By doing so, its possible that upside potential is compromised to some extent, but it offers a much safer route that strictinly buying or selling puts and calls.

And Hogg, dont think that technical analysis is a waste of time. I remember a contest that Fortune or one of those magazines runs every year. They find who the most successful investor is for the year (they verify through trading records, tax returns, etc). I think it was 2002 that a guy turned about $20k into $14.5MM through various charting techniques. He had a return of over 125,000%!! Not saying thats the norm (it was the largest single year gains the magazine had ever seen), but its possible. Investment companies like Bear Sterns, Morgan Stanley, etc all employ technical analysts. Some people swear by them, others think they are the bane of investing. I think a combination of both is appropriate, given that the person investing their money has some knowledge in the area of stocks, accounting, corporate analysis, etc.

In the end, we are all shooting for the same goal. An increase in wealth. Some people are happy with 5% per year, others arent satisfied with 25%. SOme people think $250k will provide them a very nice retirement (and it certainly may), others want multi-millions. Personally, I am a more aggressive investor and also have goals of being a multi-millionaire (similar to the guys you told me about in your email). I have no plans or intentions of being like 95% of the population who wants to retire on a measly $800/mo social security check. If that is someones plan, they IMO, they are a total dumbass.
 
I understand where you are coming from BS but rather than looking for 'slim jims' and inverted cup handles, I tend to look for consistent earnings performance, low beta, low debt/equity, low P/E, and a discount to book or at least a low multiple depending on the sector.....analysis, to me, means crunching financials for the past 5 years or so, trying to determine how well management is using retained earnings to grow the business, trying to assess management's strength, project future cash flow, and potential for future earnings growth in the given market sector.

Chart analysis on the other hand......it is essentially trending....you are trying to see a pattern to a variable that is based on market sentiment and news, not necessarily on the company's financial strength or future earnings....a true investor who buys a sound company can totally disregard daily fluctuations in the market because he is buying the discounted future cash flow of the company. I've tried to make sense of Kevin Haggerty and Dave Landry from tradingmarkets.com and I've tried to understand their strategy on trading.....but they are just that - traders.....and I'm not saying a guy cant make a shitload of money trading.....but for every guy that makes a shitload of money trading, at least 4 less-astute aspiring traders are going to lose their ass ....perhaps even more. And mind you, there are many very rich.....filthy rich people who speculate.....there are many who hedge their investments with options.......but I believe that they are not in the same realm as a stalwart investor who is looks 10 years down the road with his investments.

I believe Buffett once said "You should assume that you can only make 20 trades in your life and allocate your portfolio accordingly" - the mindset is quite different than a fellow who wakes up in the morning and glues himself to his workstation looking for an opportunity to ride a momentum swing.....again, there are very successful people that do it.....but there is as much 'gut instinct' in such endeavors as their is analysis.

And let us look at another consideration, we know that the efficient market theory is bollocks because if it was not influenced by random factors, then one could spend a few months writing software to manipulate the market - anything that can be predicted with certainty is subject to manipulation - but the market is not efficient, and randomness is a key trait; market sentiment is a factor that cannot be quantified down to a finite level. A general level, yes, but I dont think anyone can explain why the less astute 'investor' is willing to pile on a dogshit stock that is worth nothing only to ride the wave up, and then take the corresponding plunge over the falls as the stock crashes on its head.....Buffett once discussed the behavior of lemmings and drew parallels to the behavior of the markets.

Now another consideration - if you are following the same trending methods as 10,000 other day traders, if you use exactly the same techniques as those that are being learned by countless others in the world simultaneously, then at some point, the method has to fail, because someone will break out of the herd and use a methodology contra to what is generally accepted as valid and then leave those who used the method of analysis suffering with a certificate that is worth little. This parallel of course applies to day and swing traders moreso than what I believe you are talking about - examining the efficacy of an option with a 2-3 month expiration as a company gradually loses its market capitalization.........I can see this as requiring more of an investor's method of analysis than a speculator's analysis as such a decision would have to be made on countless factors including the financials and perhaps the activities of insiders and institutional holders........but reading a 3 minute tick chart looking for the 'inverted cup handle' or the 'slim jim' does not, to me, constitute 'technical analysis'. Rather, I consider it looking for patterns in a picture.

I agree that the typical person on the street should pump their money into mutual funds or buy a popular large cap unleveraged company and dollar-cost average monthly......those who throw darts at the wall would probably fare better taking their money to vegas and throwing craps. And I also believe that if someone has a knack for speculation and trading....and has found success in doing so, then he should probably put his full effort into it. Lefevre's 'Reminiscences', though loosely fictional, is a wonderful read about trading and indeed, one who swings a big line and has the pulse of the market can go from dead flat broke to richer than all hell in a matter of a few minutes.....this is a skill or an intuition that few possess and I prefer to sit back on the sidelines and admire those with the capability rather than to try my hand and find if I possess the right traits :D

As you said, it doesnt matter how you get there as long as you get there.
 
Hogg said:
Presently, I am stuck with the Waterhouse web-based charting app. It gives me volume by price and the usual graph overlays. That is why I am looking for a better service. Waterhouse has some kind of integrated trading and analysis console but you have to become a premium select plus customer which is driven by your number of trades per quarter, not dollar value of your holdings in their account. Suffice to say that I will never trade 70 times a quarter so I will not be able to get access to the app.

I looked at omega tradestation packaged with the Reuters service. It is $ 59.95/mth but I have not had a chance to see the application in the real.

What are the specifics on your island service? How did you subscribe? All I could find on their site is a service called 'ITCH' for $ 400/mth.

Hogg,if you go to www.island.com and on the homepage, go to "info center" you'll see a link where you can subscribe to level II for $50 per month. There are some less expensive level II servives, but I like Island because they did combine with Instinet and have given me reliable service.
And oh yeah, you are one smart son-of-a-gun.
 
Hogg, IIRC you are in engineering and job estimation, correct? You come across as well-versed in investing, not only the basics of p/e, earnings, etc, but also financial concepts like EMH and crap like that. One of my final projects/presentations in college was in regards to the bullocks of the EMH, particularly the strong and semi-strong versions. If anyone thinks that emotion (a non-fundamental) cant drive a market, then they are sorely mistaken. The most common historical example given is the "Tulip Mania" from the 1600s. A lot of it had to do with speculation about those little bulbs you pop in the ground. Single bulbs were selling for thousands and thousands of dollars. A very similar comparison can be made to the dot.com run-up of the mid-late 90s. There was no basis for almost any tech companies valuation, yet people gladly paid $100 for Marketwatch. eBay is one of the few examples where the valuation was somewhat justified. And as expected, the industry leaders in each tech segment are the ones that have lead the recovery in that sector.

I'm all for value investing and investing for the long term. As you said, if a person is investing with a year or more timeframe, then intraday fluctuations dont mean sh*t. A lot of money can be made in those half and three-quarter point fluctuations, but most people have neither the time nor the knowledge and expertise to be able to do that. Also, most people dont have the money to make those little gains mean anything. Small investors trying to capitalize on such small movements will ultimately lose out when their trading fees eats away at their portfolio value. From my standpoint, I think the vast majority of long-term investors would be be served by buying a high quality, low-no fee mutual fund such as the Vanguard 500. Or a spider. Basically the same idea. Over 20 years, I would guarantee that anyone who did that would come out way ahead. And not surprisingly, an index fund outperforms nearly every professional fund manager nearly every single year. Pretty sad that guys making millions of dollars "managing" a fund can even beat the market. The likes of Peter Lynch are the exkeption rather than the rule.

Buffett is a very smart investor, for sure. By far the most successful investor of all time. Imagine if you had $100k with him back in 1967 (IIRC) when he started!! One of his tenets that Ive always like was "buy what you know." He is good friends with Bill Gates, yet doesnt buy computer and tech companies because he doesnt know much about them, relatively speaking Im sure. Insurance companies...he's probably the best. Hell, he owns half the damn insurance companies in Omaha. Those companies have made him billions. If more people would stick with an industry that they knew, and did so for 10-20 years, they would be doing pretty darn well.

Options are for people that can afford to lose money. To them, the risk vs reward factor leans heavily in their favor. A loss of $5,000 is no big deal on a few options deals, when all they need is one $5k deal to hit big (assuming a basic call strategy). You could compare it to the venture capital market. VCs know that 3 out of 10 of their deals are going to fail. 4 out of 10 will probably break even. Its the remaining 3 out of 10 that will propel them to major money. So much money that the losses and evens of the other 7 deals dont mean crap. Very few of us have the money for VC, and even fewer have the mental resiliency needed in that type endeavor.
 

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