are eliteanabolx gtg?

Angus
I've finally had the occasion to review the MS and the UPHLC on the "GH"

My first concern is the HUGE discrepancy between the sample you analyzed and rHGH. For example while the "Fisher" product has a MEASURED molecular weight of 22145 amu the "Northern Trusts weight is 22219 amu.

Based on MULTIPLE analyses of rHGH the exact weight is 22126.0463 amu. Now based on my calculations the difference is HUGE (Fisher +19 & Northern Trust +93 !!!) and totally inconsistent with GH.

Moreover the fragmentation array reveals MANY other ions with MW considerably higher than the predominant ion or "GH" in this instance.

What this implies is the base ion is NOT the molecular ion at all but rather one of several larger ions which were not thoroughly analyzed and underwent fragmentation into the more abundant "GH" ion, OR there is a remarkable degree of organic contamination present in the sample selected.

This is particularly important because excluding the rare occurrence of molecular dimers or aggregates, performing MS on any organic molecule should NOT generate ions of a LARGER MW then the PARENT molecule (they undergo fragmentation of varying degrees) GH in the instance.

Furthermore because the summation of those ions whose MW is GREATER than the base peak ("GH"), roughly 30%, your calculation the Northern Trust purity approximates of 90% overly generous to say the least.

Which brings me to the UHPLC. There are clearly two predominant base peaks, one at time 4.47 and the other at 4.69 and several other peak undulations between 4.69 and roughly 6.5 minutes.

These differing base peaks indicate TWO substances with variform molecular weights. In fact because the interval between time 4;16 to 6.5 can NOT be differentiated (isolated into specific peaks) with any degree of certainty additional elusions should have been conducted (if theory were not) and those results depicted, indicating which base peak was used for the Mass spec analysis.

Finally after reviewing the "net" for the various "GENERIC" suppliers of Mass Spec
I noted essentially every one had MW between 0.5-1% ABOVE the known amu
rHGH. Now why is this so unusual? Because such a remarkable discrepancy negates the possibility these GENERIC GH PRODUCTS are legit GH, IMO!

Angus like yourself I'm always concerned (actually I get pretty damn pissed) when some mate, especially one from Meso, is being screwed by another unscrupulous UGL and try my best to stop such activity whenever possible. Let me know your insightful thoughts at your leisure.:)

Regards
JIM
 
Angus
I've finally had the occasion to review the MS and the UPHLC on the "GH"

My first concern is the HUGE discrepancy between the sample you analyzed and rHGH. For example while the "Fisher" product has a MEASURED molecular weight of 22145 amu the "Northern Trusts weight is 22219 amu.

Based on MULTIPLE analyses of rHGH the exact weight is 22126.0463 amu. Now based on my calculations the difference is HUGE (Fisher +19 & Northern Trust +93 !!!) and totally inconsistent with GH.

Moreover the fragmentation array reveals MANY other ions with MW considerably higher than the predominant ion or "GH" in this instance.

What this implies is the base ion is NOT the molecular ion at all but rather one of several larger ions which were not thoroughly analyzed and underwent fragmentation into the more abundant "GH" ion, OR there is a remarkable degree of organic contamination present in the sample selected.

This is particularly important because excluding the rare occurrence of molecular dimers or aggregates, performing MS on any organic molecule should NOT generate ions of a LARGER MW then the PARENT molecule (they undergo fragmentation of varying degrees) GH in the instance.

Furthermore because the summation of those ions whose MW is GREATER than the base peak ("GH"), roughly 30%, your calculation the Northern Trust purity approximates of 90% overly generous to say the least.

Which brings me to the UHPLC. There are clearly two predominant base peaks, one at time 4.47 and the other at 4.69 and several other peak undulations between 4.69 and roughly 6.5 minutes.

These differing base peaks indicate TWO substances with variform molecular weights. In fact because the interval between time 4;16 to 6.5 can NOT be differentiated (isolated into specific peaks) with any degree of certainty additional elusions should have been conducted (if theory were not) and those results depicted, indicating which base peak was used for the Mass spec analysis.

Finally after reviewing the "net" for the various "GENERIC" suppliers of Mass Spec
I noted essentially every one had MW between 0.5-1% ABOVE the known amu
rHGH. Now why is this so unusual? Because such a remarkable discrepancy negates the possibility these GENERIC GH PRODUCTS are legit GH, IMO!

Angus like yourself I'm always concerned (actually I get pretty damn pissed) when some mate, especially one from Meso, is being screwed by another unscrupulous UGL and try my best to stop such activity whenever possible. Let me know your insightful thoughts at your leisure.:)

Regards
JIM


Angus, are you going to address the points raised here? It appears your MS tests are not entirely accurate and it would be nice to hear what you have to say about that.
:cricket::cricket::cricket:

Regards

CBS
 
Angus, are you going to address the points raised here? It appears your MS tests are not entirely accurate and it would be nice to hear what you have to say about that.
:cricket::cricket::cricket:

Regards

CBS
I apologize for my late response but like I told Dr Jim in a PM I was not going to revisit this forum because it had spiraled into a pissing contest and the very ugly part of humanity was rearing it's nasty head. Thus I wanted no part of it. I'm happy to engage in respectful banter and treat everyone with respect and dignity.

I already told you guys that I'm too old to fight with you. I also told you that I wasn't the chemist; therefore, I can easily follow what Dr Jim has laid out but i'm afraid my response would be inadequate. Tis best to let the expert support his work in his own words so I will defer to the Chemist with the PhD. Give me a day or so and I should have something back. English is his second language but it's good enough to get his point across so you might have to bear with me a little, lol. Perhaps the Chemist will be enlightened by what I'm about to send him, I have no idea. Maybe it'll change how he tests the peptides.....who knows.

Additionally this GH is going to undergo serum testing next so that will also answer some questions into its bioavailability also. Serum testing and IGF test should give a concise indication of the efficacy of the GH.
 
I apologize for my late response but like I told Dr Jim in a PM I was not going to revisit this forum because it had spiraled into a pissing contest and the very ugly part of humanity was rearing it's nasty head. Thus I wanted no part of it. I'm happy to engage in respectful banter and treat everyone with respect and dignity.

I already told you guys that I'm too old to fight with you. I also told you that I wasn't the chemist; therefore, I can easily follow what Dr Jim has laid out but i'm afraid my response would be inadequate. Tis best to let the expert support his work in his own words so I will defer to the Chemist with the PhD. Give me a day or so and I should have something back. English is his second language but it's good enough to get his point across so you might have to bear with me a little, lol. Perhaps the Chemist will be enlightened by what I'm about to send him, I have no idea. Maybe it'll change how he tests the peptides.....who knows.

Additionally this GH is going to undergo serum testing next so that will also answer some questions into its bioavailability also. Serum testing and IGF test should give a concise indication of the efficacy of the GH.

Actually the good Dr was nothing but respectful in his 'banter' with you.
 
Actually the good Dr was nothing but respectful in his 'banter' with you.

I wasn't talking about the good Dr. and everyone has been very nice to me and I appreciate that. I just had to cringe a bit when I saw all the insults flying and name calling. I choose to not be a part of that, is that a bad thing? That is all I was referring to. I apologize if I led you to believe otherwise. I had a great conversation with Dr Jim and i'm sure I'll have more. We have much in common and I appreciate his insight.
 
That would be great Angus!

I agree and have ABSOLUTELY NO INTEREST in generating another internet brawl even remotely reminiscent of the ventures of PanMan.

Whats the native tongue of the DOC since we have several exchange students, residents and/or faculty at the university where I work.

The idea of course being an open exchange of thoughts, ideas, solutions and or illustrative explanations where deemed appropriate.

Again Angus I sincerely appreciate you getting back with us.

Jim
 
That would be great Angus!

I agree and have ABSOLUTELY NO INTEREST in generating another internet brawl even remotely reminiscent of the ventures of PanMan.

Whats the native tongue of the DOC since we have several exchange students, residents and/or faculty at the university where I work.

The idea of course being an open exchange of thoughts, ideas, solutions and or illustrative explanations where deemed appropriate.

Again Angus I sincerely appreciate you getting back with us.

Jim

Can I get a link to the Panman thing? I have to know wtf it is. None of you all will tell me.
 
That would be great Angus!

I agree and have ABSOLUTELY NO INTEREST in generating another internet brawl even remotely reminiscent of the ventures of PanMan.

Whats the native tongue of the DOC since we have several exchange students, residents and/or faculty at the university where I work.

The idea of course being an open exchange of thoughts, ideas, solutions and or illustrative explanations where deemed appropriate.

Again Angus I sincerely appreciate you getting back with us.

Jim

Cool! I sent off what you wrote to the Chemist (I call him doctor but for sake of not confusing everyone I will continue to call him chemist here). His native language is Chinese. In fact the lab will be closed april 26th for a month while he goes to China for more training and a bit of vacation time. I'm sure the University will continue testing but as you can imagine our relationship is a bit sensitive therefore if he's not there then we don't get analysis, lol. Probably better that way anyway.

I love the thought of exchanging ideas and concepts! In fact, I was going to ask you what you thought of our scope of testing being 100-800 for mass to charge (m/z). We have found that almost all steroids fall in this weight, but occasionally a covalent bond will be above that such as Testosterone Enanthate is around 401 (M+1) and if it has a covalent bond or double bond then it becomes 801 (2M+1) and falls outside our scope. But how often does that happen? We have expanded that scope on some heavier steroids to try to capture that data but at this point the conclusion is premature. Thoughts?

Sorry, I got a little sidetracked there. I get a bit excited over collaboration, lol. But you're right, a productive discussion is so much more helpful. I very much look forward to working with you :) and I'll hang around and chat with you for as long as you'll have me.
 
Sorry that is privileged information which is ONLY available to group discussants in one particular Meso sub-forum.

Moreover disclosure of that type of information shall only be granted by a supra-majority vote and any violation of said rule would result in immediate and permanent banishment.
 
Angus it seems you may be misinterpreting my question because the "sample" is not ionic but becomes so as a result of the MS process.

More specifically the M+1 calculation compensates for the lost anion and cation pair which is the consequence of the MS electro spray process itself.

Consequently when the M/z ratio is utilized to determine the weight of the molecular ion the result obtained is ABSENT a HYDROGEN which is then added to yield the "calculated mass".

You see what I'm referring to?
 
Angus it seems you may be misinterpreting my question because the "sample" is not ionic but becomes so as a result of the MS process.

More specifically the M+1 calculation compensates for the lost anion and cation pair which is the consequence of the MS electro spray process itself.

Consequently when the M/z ratio is utilized to determine the weight of the molecular ion the result obtained is ABSENT a HYDROGEN which is then added to yield the "calculated mass".

You see what I'm referring to?

Yessir, I fully understand the ionization process and see exactly what you are saying. My little blurb up there wasn't in response to any specific question you asked. It was just a generalized question for you and was in the forefront of my mind because it was something we have been working on very recently. I jumped right into that collaboration thing with both feet, didn't I? Perhaps I got a bit ahead of myself.

I don't feel qualified to answer your questions regarding the GH and I'm not the type of person to try to blow smoke up someone's ass. And from what I've read you're not the type of person to let that happen anyway, lol. That means I have to wait for the chemist to respond. Sorry. I think you deserve a very educated response, and I would like to deliver that for you.
 
I believe what your referring to is using the M+1 PEAK as a means of ESTIMATING the number of carbon atoms in the molecular ion (the sample molecule minus an electron)

This means is estimation becomes problematic once the molecular ion exceeds as little as 4-5 carbons.

Why? Because the M+1 peak actually represents CARBON-13 which approximates 1,11% of "naturally" occurring carbon.

What further complicates the "estimation" is that the PROBABILITY of the molecular ion containing C-13 is highly dependent upon the NUMBER OF CARBONS in the molecule under study.

Angus do you understand what I'm referring to here. Just trying to ensure were are communicating fella.

Post back and let me know :)
Jim
 
So what we have is somewhat of a quandary and therein lies the development of QUANTUM MECHANICS.

However the are still means of CALCULATING the number of C, H, N in organic molecules but they are all based on probability and require computers to achieve a reliable and reproducible degree of accuracy.

Consequently the molecular weights used to determine the mass/charge ratio all use Monoisotopic CARBON 12 as the benchmark.
 
Hey Angus I apologize I get I these rolls sometimes .... ... and shit let me read your question :)
 
So what we have is somewhat of a quandary and therein lies the development of QUANTUM MECHANICS.

schrodinger%2527s_cat.jpg
 
Hey Angus I apologize I get I these rolls sometimes .... ... and shit let me read your question :)

haha, no problem. I ended up going to bed after my last post. It was late for me, really late in fact. But looking at your responses I'm am a little confused at what you're saying. I mean, I know what concept you're talking about but I'm not quite sure how it fits into my question about scope.
 
haha, no problem. I ended up going to bed after my last post. It was late for me, really late in fact. But looking at your responses I'm am a little confused at what you're saying. I mean, I know what concept you're talking about but I'm not quite sure how it fits into my question about scope.

dr jim shill is known to talk in circles. No one really cares or understands him.. Don't worry, eventually he will try to discredit you, just to make himself feel better about himself..
 
haha, no problem. I ended up going to bed after my last post. It was late for me, really late in fact. But looking at your responses I'm am a little confused at what you're saying. I mean, I know what concept you're talking about but I'm not quite sure how it fits into my question about scope.


It probably doesn't, lol!
 
dr jim shill is known to talk in circles. No one really cares or understands him.. Don't worry, eventually he will try to discredit you, just to make himself feel better about himself..



Well IM, perhaps you've had time to reflect on my earlier comment?

Remember IM? Recall my post where I stated; Science doesn't lie PEOPLE DO.

Now what part did you not understand?

How did that circuitous statement make you "feel", unwanted, unloved, under appreciated?

Why IM, none of that is true. you reap what you sew!
 
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