Are These People Christians

[garyzilla]

I came across this site: www.godhatesfags.com go to the site and tell me what you all think. I will give you all my take on the site after some posts. But it sure will make you all post!

-Pastor Garyzilla

 

[chris gordon]

theway i feel about it is God loves us all , but he hates the sin...not the sinner....i dont remember Jesus talkin a lot about hate...hmmm

also not just sodomy is an abomination deserving of death, but the wages of ALL sin is death...all have sinned...this is starting to chap my hide the more i write

 

[Chip Bronson]

a lot of you guys, like bob smith, write about how religion is a means to one's salvation. but i am of the opinion that religion is a way to give meaning to someone's life. it's the means of giving purpose to one's life and actions in this world, and it has nothing to do with the afterlife. now remember, i do not follow any organized religion.

as such, if it (religion) gives peoples' lives meaning to hate fags, then they can call themselves, and be, whatever they want, be it christians, mormons, dickheadites, etc... now some will argue that hating others is not what god would have us do and i agree with that. but i agree simply because the spiritual values that inform my behavior just happen to be in line with the ones that inform yours. does that make my values the absolute? i think not because just as differing cultures express the morees and values of differing peoples, so do disparate spiritual outlooks express the beliefs of differing peoples.

remember people that religion always was, is and always will be a means of mass social control. you can see this is true by looking at the disintegrating fabric of many societies around the world. as religion looses it's hold over the masses, unruliness and chaos become more pronounced.

 

[dolfe1]

a lot of you guys, like bob smith, write about how religion is a means to one's salvation. but i am of the opinion that religion is a way to give meaning to someone's life. it's the means of giving purpose to one's life and actions in this world, and it has nothing to do with the afterlife. now remember, i do not follow any organized religion.

as such, if it (religion) gives peoples' lives meaning to hate fags, then they can call themselves, and be, whatever they want, be it christians, mormons, dickheadites, etc... now some will argue that hating others is not what god would have us do and i agree with that. but i agree simply because the spiritual values that inform my behavior just happen to be in line with the ones that inform yours. does that make my values the absolute? i think not because just as differing cultures express the morees and values of differing peoples, so do disparate spiritual outlooks express the beliefs of differing peoples.

remember people that religion always was, is and always will be a means of mass social control. you can see this is true by looking at the disintegrating fabric of many societies around the world. as religion looses it's hold over the masses, unruliness and chaos become more pronounced.

Chip what are your beliefs? Curious.

 

[Chip Bronson]

i gave a pretty good outline of my beliefs under the thread 'the passions of christ'. sorry, i just don't feel like writing it over again.

 

[dolfe1]

i gave a pretty good outline of my beliefs under the thread 'the passions of christ'. sorry, i just don't feel like writing it over again.

What steps do you take to find a greater meaning? Religion has really sparked my interest in the last two years, maybe I take after my father, I would consider him a religious expert. The reason I ask is you seem inteligent and I like to hear the opinions of people who choose to explore religion. Have you read any good books?

 

[Southernjuice]

Sin is sin....to hate someone for what they are or do is also a sin.To judge someone is a sin......noone but you knows what is in your heart....to question ones Christianity is a sin. Christians know Christians, we don't have to ask if you believe or are you saved....we will see it thru the way your life is lead.My take on "fags".....God destroyed them once....he'll do it again.

 

[tonyton]

What steps do you take to find a greater meaning? Religion has really sparked my interest in the last two years, maybe I take after my father, I would consider him a religious expert. The reason I ask is you seem inteligent and I like to hear the opinions of people who choose to explore religion. Have you read any good books?

god does not hate period!

 

[Southernjuice]

god does not hate period!

I don't believe he hates either...I think he feels disappointment...sadness...however until you are a Christian you are lost to him...come Judgement Day he will say he never knew you. So hate is'nt an issue...you punish yourself God does'nt have to....he gave us all an invitation to the party.

 

[Chip Bronson]

What steps do you take to find a greater meaning? Religion has really sparked my interest in the last two years, maybe I take after my father, I would consider him a religious expert. The reason I ask is you seem inteligent and I like to hear the opinions of people who choose to explore religion. Have you read any good books?

thanks for the kind words dolfe. at the risk of sounding cliche'd, i think that awareness is the single most important tool we have at our disposal, in our quest for a greater meaning. awareness will help us see the not-so-obvious forces working against us in our quest as well as some potential short-cuts for getting us where we want to go. awareness will light your path as well as expose those who try to control you by various means.

as i've said before, i think that god and religion are in each and everyone of us. awareness, imho, not the church, or the bible, or the preacher, will help us see them. when true awareness informs our decisions and actions, we can be sure we are acting/being in conformity with godliness.

i've read tons of good books. where do i start?

 

[Bob Smith]

Gary, its not up to me to decide whether these people are Christian or not. Supposedly the KKK is a Christian organization as well. Besides the hatred of gays, I dont know whats in their heart. God makes those decisions, not me. Do I think they are wrong in their beliefs? Absolutely. They put John 3:16 on their front page as a supportive passage for their views. IMO, that passage completely negates everything they say, as long as the gay person believes in Jesus as their savior.

Their actions and methods are most certainly un-Christianlike. Think of who Jesus spent most of his time hanging out with. It wasnt the religious Pharisees and the such, it was the prostitutes, the cheats, adulterers, and other "bad" people. As Chris said, ALL sin results in death. None of the 30 or so version of the Bible on my comp say "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him, except fags, will not perish but have eternal life."

And what about John 3:17? "God did not send his Son into the world to condemn it.." Condemning people seems to be the only function of that website. Matt 7:3-5 comes to mind "And why worry about a speck in your friend's eye when you have a log in your own? How can you think of saying, 'Let me help you get rid of that speck in your eye,' when you can't see past the log in your own eye? Hypocrite! First get rid of the log from your own eye; then perhaps you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend's eye."

 

[dolfe1]

thanks for the kind words dolfe. at the risk of sounding cliche'd, i think that awareness is the single most important tool we have at our disposal, in our quest for a greater meaning. awareness will help us see the not-so-obvious forces working against us in our quest as well as some potential short-cuts for getting us where we want to go. awareness will light your path as well as expose those who try to control you by various means.

as i've said before, i think that god and religion are in each and everyone of us. awareness, imho, not the church, or the bible, or the preacher, will help us see them. when true awareness informs our decisions and actions, we can be sure we are acting/being in conformity with godliness.

i've read tons of good books. where do i start?

I've just started reading a book called the 12th Planet, heard of it?

 

[Chip Bronson]

I don't believe he hates either...I think he feels disappointment...sadness...however until you are a Christian you are lost to him...come Judgement Day he will say he never knew you. So hate is'nt an issue...you punish yourself God does'nt have to....he gave us all an invitation to the party.

judgment day is an overly-simplistic fabrication designed to 'motivate' people to be good people. again, it is yet another control mechanism. if they aren't 'good' they will not be saved. but, just as we all punish ourselves, he or she does not punish us, we all have the ultimate control over saving ourselves as well. you don't need him, her or it to save you.

 

[Chip Bronson]

I've just started reading a book called the 12th Planet, heard of it?

good book dolfe. quite heady at that. i love books like this even though i have a hard time buying into some of what he says. how do you like the book? if you like it, you may enjoy 'stalking the wild pendulum' by itzak bentov. one of my favorites.

 

[Bob Smith]

Chippy said: a lot of you guys, like bob smith, write about how religion is a means to one's salvation. but i am of the opinion that religion is a way to give meaning to someone's life.

I think its both.

I think a distinction needs to be made between religion and spirituality. I consider myself to be a spiritual person, with a faith in God and Jesus. I am not a religious person. Religion, to me, is the "kneel, bow, stand, sit, pray the rosary" kind of stuff. Its the show that goes on, particularly when a number of the people get together. To me, that is fluff, its a diversion of attention from what the real purpose is. In some sense, Chip, I agree that the religion aspect is a way to control people. Im not into that stuff, Ill leave that to the Catholics.

Chip, lets say you want to go out for a walk at night. Youre having trouble sleeping and just want some fresh air and to hear the silence of night. 3am, you hop outta bed, get dressed and go outside. The moon is at its smallest point, so there is no illumination from it. You live in an area where there are no street lights or lighted storefronts. Its black out. You cant see your hand in front of your face, let alone your car parked on the street or your neighbors house. You dont have a flashlight either, the wife burned out the batteries a few weeks back. How can you see where you are going without some light? Do you have special night-vision eyes? Do you wear candles on your feet so that you can at least see where your next step is?

 

[Southernjuice]

I think it one in the same....Salvation gives meaning to life.

 

[Chip Bronson]

Chippy said: a lot of you guys, like bob smith, write about how religion is a means to one's salvation. but i am of the opinion that religion is a way to give meaning to someone's life.

I think its both.

I think a distinction needs to be made between religion and spirituality. I consider myself to be a spiritual person, with a faith in God and Jesus. I am not a religious person. Religion, to me, is the "kneel, bow, stand, sit, pray the rosary" kind of stuff. Its the show that goes on, particularly when a number of the people get together. To me, that is fluff, its a diversion of attention from what the real purpose is. In some sense, Chip, I agree that the religion aspect is a way to control people. Im not into that stuff, Ill leave that to the Catholics.

Chip, lets say you want to go out for a walk at night. Youre having trouble sleeping and just want some fresh air and to hear the silence of night. 3am, you hop outta bed, get dressed and go outside. The moon is at its smallest point, so there is no illumination from it. You live in an area where there are no street lights or lighted storefronts. Its black out. You cant see your hand in front of your face, let alone your car parked on the street or your neighbors house. You dont have a flashlight either, the wife burned out the batteries a few weeks back. How can you see where you are going without some light? Do you have special night-vision eyes? Do you wear candles on your feet so that you can at least see where your next step is?

i'd stay home and write to some bro on meso instead... lol bob, i agree with you completely and my posts bear this out. i am a very spiritual person, but not religious at all. the salvation via religion thing is a point you brought up twice here on meso, iirc. i used your name as a reference of what someone said, not what they necessarily believe. i realize you were trying to stir things up when you made that comment on two different occasions. and i think you're too smart of a guy to be caught up in the whole religion thing anyway.

 

[Bob Smith]

i'd stay home and write to some bro on meso instead... lol bob, i agree with you completely and my posts bear this out. i am a very spiritual person, but not religious at all. the salvation via religion thing is a point you brought up twice here on meso, iirc. i used your name as a reference of what someone said, not what they necessarily believe. i realize you were trying to stir things up when you made that comment on two different occasions. and i think you're too smart of a guy to be caught up in the whole religion thing anyway.

Explain the last sentance or two for me, please.

 

[Southernjuice]

Spiritual without Religion? The only spirit you can have is the Holy Spirit and it can only enter you thru being a Christian and how do you get there without religion? Don't think this will be able to be explained sufficiently to me.I'm glad Chip's comment was aimed at you Bob about not being smart enough to be caught up in the Religion thing. Personally I think Bob is a Christian and will be glad to tell people so....could be wrong though.

 

[Bob Smith]

I am a Christian. I am not religious in the sense that I described earlier. I have a bunch of Christian friendsI read my Bible and I pray. I have never, and will never, own a rosary, go to confession, say a hail Mary, or pray to anyone other than God himself. I dont belong to a Catholic, Episcopalian, Lutheran, Morman, Jewish, or any other organization church. My church has one branch, two services and about 1500 members. All of the teachings are strictly Biblical. We eat donuts before services and are there to help other members out with anything, whether its their relationship with God, trouble at work, or any other issues. From all the various churches Ive been to, I would say that mine ranks right up there as one of the most loving and accepting of people.

My relationship is purely between myself and God, I dont need a priest to intervene or tell me Im going to Hell for something I did. My friends help in my relationship, as Im able to share with them and also learn from them. I pick on the Catholics because I am most familiar with that church. They believe in non-Biblical tradition, I dont.