Aromasin ruined me for good..

[Alexis sarridi]

Disbelief because it’s a claim that isn’t currently supported by any documented evidence.

Did you actually i

Disbelief because it’s a claim that isn’t currently supported by any documented evidence.

Did you actually read the thread?

It could be a good thread but there is three guys if you can really call them like that,the op the estrogen bitch taking 7 years estrogen because this was the last time he did a check up and refuses after that and says he goes with only feel and have become a crazy male bitch that just attacks everyone and have lost touch with reality.Second the old gay man that wants to play it that he trolling and try to have fights with men and say bullshit because as it looks this is how he has fun because he can't get out there to try to find some gay man like him,this is his way of fun for him,he has fetish drinking chamomile and make guys who train angry to fight with them.Old lazy and a waste of time maximus is his name There is another one also I think he is gay too and a waste time.Now we can continue normally without them and their delusional stories.The most crazy thing is they don't troll,this what they do no interest in training this but also try to play it trolls because in the end of the day it is their choice what they became so now that we know what you are,you are really miserable people,s low level,no goals no anything, low life's because I don't have anything against gay people but you guys are embarrassing human beings

 

[zancek0]

Disbelief because it’s a claim that isn’t currently supported by any documented evidence.

Did you actually read the thread?

Fair reply. I now did read the whole thread. I agree that very comprehensive set of tests are the only thing that will give some hints as to what is going on. Experimenting based on "feeling" alone is going to be counterproductive.
(However, I've also dealt with (am still dealing with) health issues for which I could not for the longest time find any obvious contributors since most biomarkers on test were "normal". Doctors were unfortunately of zero help and attributed all of my issues to depression and to "it's gonna pass eventually". Turns out that one needs to be quite open-minded and proactive to find creative solutions to confusing health issues. I sympathize with OP because it's extremely infuriating and demeaning to keep hearing from certain others that what you're basically dealing with it is your mind messing with you.)

Regarding the issue of the lack of documented evidence. AI use in men is not as studied as AI use in women. Of course, there are some studies showing that AI use in women upregulates ER in certain tissues (breast tissues, for example), potentially accelerating cancer cells growth after discontinuation. The logic behind this (upregulation of certain ER to compensate for lack of E2) can be applied to men as well (since the general mechanism behind up/downregulation of whichever receptor is the same).
However, we cannot extrapolate without consideration from studies on women to men. Primary sex hormones, for example, do in general serve opposing functions in terms of immune system regulation (in men, test/dht suppress cortisol (the "anti-inflammatory" hormone) which increases IFN-gamma activity whereas estradiol provides opposing anti-inflammatory activity; vice versa for women).
The idea in this thread is that aromasin actually permanently disables aromatase enzymes which only exist in limited quantity. This is likely to be false. Enzyme resynthesis or enzyme turnover would eventually take place. Thought, the story might not be so simple in cases like this where OP used aromasin for years and years. I also think that the use of nonsteroidal AIs such as arimidex is not risk-free. In fact, this is a good thread to read for this: Can estrogen crash cause desensitization/knock out of the estrogen receptor - lets discuss!
I wonder if nonsteroidal AIs affect receptor expression and function more severely (due to the infamous "rebound effect") than steroidal AIs...

There might be some inhibiton of aromatase activity at play. But I also think that what OP is dealing with can be more readily explained when one considers the pressure excessive test/dht levels in absence of adequate e2 levels (due to AIs) put on (mucosal) tissues in the form of oxidative stress/damage. IFN-gamma activity gets upregulated/increased in the presence of high test/dht levels which becomes problematic if the oxidative damage exceeds the tissue regenerative capacity. This leads to the membrane integrity/barrier function becoming heavily impaired over time which is exacerbated possibly by mucosal infections (maybe in the gut); what follows are innate immune responses due to toxins and different metabolites getting absorbed into bloodstream (aka leaky gut or leaky "whatever-mucosal-tissue-is-sufficiently-damaged"). The innate immune response alters a number of key energy pathways towards immune activity and leads to various (nutrient) deficiencies which further unable the body to fix the damaged tissues but at least further prevents as much damage as possible (*as long as the body doesnt get further blasted with test and AI's that just potentiate the damage)... I wager that OP's issues started or got worse either after covid or after the vaccine. Both heavily disturb the immune system and prepare terrain for pathogens to party on.
I think that OP is dealing with chronic inflammation along with heavily impaired barrier function, exacerbated possibly by mucosal infections (maybe in the gut), from which follow innate immune response, malnutrition due to impaired nutrient (vitamins, minerals...) absorption and due to shifted energy pathways and cascade of other compensations (that the body uses to help itself - compensations which are basically overrided when using AAS; compensations which also include receptor expression changes with regards to glutamate, gaba, nmda, serotonin, dopamine ...). The story gets very complicated.

Why does E2 work for OP? I think that this is partly due to actually being moderately aromatase deficient as a result of long term steroidal AI usage or, in my opinion, especially due to the fact that in males E2 is a potent anti-inflammatory and basically silences the immune system and it also upregulates certain serotonin and dopamine receptors, gaba receptors ....... Ah. It's wild. I don't even understand it that well. @Jin23 has put forth some great leads - I would definitely like to hear more from him.

OP - do some blood tests. Along with the classic hormone panel (including also thyroid) - cholesterols, CBC, CMP, vitamin D, b12, folate, ferritin, LDH isoforms. I would also either stop TRT or at least drastically reduce the dose so that test levels (along with e2 levels) will be within "normal reference range". I would also make a note of all the meds you take (and have ever taken; 5aris, SSRIs, antibiotics etc.) and of all the supplements you take.

I believe that this condition is very real but very treatable. The recovery might be painful and long, though. Good luck.
(Sorry for this long ass reply. Looking forward to what others think about this.)

 

[bornSkinny]

Fair reply. I now did read the whole thread. I agree that very comprehensive set of tests are the only thing that will give some hints as to what is going on. Experimenting based on "feeling" alone is going to be counterproductive.
(However, I've also dealt with (am still dealing with) health issues for which I could not for the longest time find any obvious contributors since most biomarkers on test were "normal". Doctors were unfortunately of zero help and attributed all of my issues to depression and to "it's gonna pass eventually". Turns out that one needs to be quite open-minded and proactive to find creative solutions to confusing health issues. I sympathize with OP because it's extremely infuriating and demeaning to keep hearing from certain others that what you're basically dealing with it is your mind messing with you.)

Regarding the issue of the lack of documented evidence. AI use in men is not as studied as AI use in women. Of course, there are some studies showing that AI use in women upregulates ER in certain tissues (breast tissues, for example), potentially accelerating cancer cells growth after discontinuation. The logic behind this (upregulation of certain ER to compensate for lack of E2) can be applied to men as well (since the general mechanism behind up/downregulation of whichever receptor is the same).
However, we cannot extrapolate without consideration from studies on women to men. Primary sex hormones, for example, do in general serve opposing functions in terms of immune system regulation (in men, test/dht suppress cortisol (the "anti-inflammatory" hormone) which increases IFN-gamma activity whereas estradiol provides opposing anti-inflammatory activity; vice versa for women).
The idea in this thread is that aromasin actually permanently disables aromatase enzymes which only exist in limited quantity. This is likely to be false. Enzyme resynthesis or enzyme turnover would eventually take place. Thought, the story might not be so simple in cases like this where OP used aromasin for years and years. I also think that the use of nonsteroidal AIs such as arimidex is not risk-free. In fact, this is a good thread to read for this: Can estrogen crash cause desensitization/knock out of the estrogen receptor - lets discuss!
I wonder if nonsteroidal AIs affect receptor expression and function more severely (due to the infamous "rebound effect") than steroidal AIs...

There might be some inhibiton of aromatase activity at play. But I also think that what OP is dealing with can be more readily explained when one considers the pressure excessive test/dht levels in absence of adequate e2 levels (due to AIs) put on (mucosal) tissues in the form of oxidative stress/damage. IFN-gamma activity gets upregulated/increased in the presence of high test/dht levels which becomes problematic if the oxidative damage exceeds the tissue regenerative capacity. This leads to the membrane integrity/barrier function becoming heavily impaired over time which is exacerbated possibly by mucosal infections (maybe in the gut); what follows are innate immune responses due to toxins and different metabolites getting absorbed into bloodstream (aka leaky gut or leaky "whatever-mucosal-tissue-is-sufficiently-damaged"). The innate immune response alters a number of key energy pathways towards immune activity and leads to various (nutrient) deficiencies which further unable the body to fix the damaged tissues but at least further prevents as much damage as possible (*as long as the body doesnt get further blasted with test and AI's that just potentiate the damage)... I wager that OP's issues started or got worse either after covid or after the vaccine. Both heavily disturb the immune system and prepare terrain for pathogens to party on.
I think that OP is dealing with chronic inflammation along with heavily impaired barrier function, exacerbated possibly by mucosal infections (maybe in the gut), from which follow innate immune response, malnutrition due to impaired nutrient (vitamins, minerals...) absorption and due to shifted energy pathways and cascade of other compensations (that the body uses to help itself - compensations which are basically overrided when using AAS; compensations which also include receptor expression changes with regards to glutamate, gaba, nmda, serotonin, dopamine ...). The story gets very complicated.

Why does E2 work for OP? I think that this is partly due to actually being moderately aromatase deficient as a result of long term steroidal AI usage or, in my opinion, especially due to the fact that in males E2 is a potent anti-inflammatory and basically silences the immune system and it also upregulates certain serotonin and dopamine receptors, gaba receptors ....... Ah. It's wild. I don't even understand it that well. @Jin23 has put forth some great leads - I would definitely like to hear more from him.

OP - do some blood tests. Along with the classic hormone panel (including also thyroid) - cholesterols, CBC, CMP, vitamin D, b12, folate, ferritin, LDH isoforms. I would also either stop TRT or at least drastically reduce the dose so that test levels (along with e2 levels) will be within "normal reference range". I would also make a note of all the meds you take (and have ever taken; 5aris, SSRIs, antibiotics etc.) and of all the supplements you take.

I believe that this condition is very real but very treatable. The recovery might be painful and long, though. Good luck.
(Sorry for this long ass reply. Looking forward to what others think about this.)

So… maybe a chance it wasn’t the exemestane that got him here, huh?
That’s why people started getting after him. His reasoning for his claims didn’t go the distance. It’s one thing to believe something, it’s another to have good evidence for it.

 

[zancek0]

So… maybe a chance it wasn’t the exemestane that got him here, huh?
That’s why people started getting after him. His reasoning for his claims didn’t go the distance. It’s one thing to believe something, it’s another to have good evidence for it.

I would say that exemestane was one of, if not the, key catalyst of what led him here. We need to know all the relevant factors, though.
It's really a matter of sensitivity to the complexity of various potential factors involved and individual differences, dispositions.

Without a doubt - considering how important androgen:estrogen balance is for overall health, AIs should not be taken lightly. Everyone who crashed their e2 levels should already know this. Of course, most AAS users actually use AIs to great effect. That is fine. One needs to know when one goes overboard, though.

 

[TTK]

Jesus christ this thread has become un-tethered from reality.

The last 4 pages read like the psychotic delusions from the cult of the retarded.

 

[Rido]

Jesus christ this thread has become un-tethered from reality.

The last 4 pages read like the psychotic delusions from the cult of the retarded.

I was kind of chuckling at myself that 2 users were going at it

TESTICLEking

and

CocoNUTZ


They keep bustin each other's balls.

 

[TTK]

I was kind of chuckling at myself that 2 users were going at it

TESTICLEking

and

CocoNUTZ


They keep bustin each other's balls.

I miss my nut buddy.

 

[Jin23]

I miss my nut buddy.

You can go talk to him on excelmale. He's under the same handle there, talking about how he's aggressive on high estrogen and how sport athlete's should be tested for exogenous estrogen use, as because per his account; estrogen is a potent ped for males ...

This is his protocol:

AM:
25mg test enanthate
10mg test prop
50mg scrotal cream.
50mg dhea oral
2mg Estradiol Valerate oral
1 grain Armor thyroid

PM
50mg pregnenelone scrotal cream
5mg Progesterone scrotal cream
2mg Estradiol Valerate oral

Can estrogen crash cause desensitization/knock out of the estrogen receptor - lets discuss!

Hey all, I’m coming from a Reddit thread/discord. A guy (Sweaty_Literature_69) posted a theory about how AI induced low E2 symptoms, PFS and PSSD are pretty much the same. It all comes down to estrogen receptors being desensitized. And it’s not oversensitized receptors leading to high E2...

www.excelmale.com

 

[TTK]

You can go talk to him on excelmale. He's under the same handle there, talking about how he's aggressive on high estrogen and how sport athlete's should be tested for exogenous estrogen use, as because per his account; estrogen is a potent ped for males ...

This is his protocol:

AM:
25mg test enanthate
10mg test prop
50mg scrotal cream.
50mg dhea oral
2mg Estradiol Valerate oral
1 grain Armor thyroid

PM
50mg pregnenelone scrotal cream
5mg Progesterone scrotal cream
2mg Estradiol Valerate oral

Can estrogen crash cause desensitization/knock out of the estrogen receptor - lets discuss!

Hey all, I’m coming from a Reddit thread/discord. A guy (Sweaty_Literature_69) posted a theory about how AI induced low E2 symptoms, PFS and PSSD are pretty much the same. It all comes down to estrogen receptors being desensitized. And it’s not oversensitized receptors leading to high E2...

www.excelmale.com

Ohhhh now I see how this thread resurrected itself with more unsubstantiated nonsense. That thread is spilling over to here.

 

[Jin23]

Ohhhh now I see how this thread resurrected itself with more unsubstantiated nonsense. That thread is spilling over to here.

Like a particularly contagious disease

 

[Elistheman]

You can go talk to him on excelmale. He's under the same handle there, talking about how he's aggressive on high estrogen and how sport athlete's should be tested for exogenous estrogen use, as because per his account; estrogen is a potent ped for males ...

This is his protocol:

AM:
25mg test enanthate
10mg test prop
50mg scrotal cream.
50mg dhea oral
2mg Estradiol Valerate oral
1 grain Armor thyroid

PM
50mg pregnenelone scrotal cream
5mg Progesterone scrotal cream
2mg Estradiol Valerate oral

Can estrogen crash cause desensitization/knock out of the estrogen receptor - lets discuss!

Hey all, I’m coming from a Reddit thread/discord. A guy (Sweaty_Literature_69) posted a theory about how AI induced low E2 symptoms, PFS and PSSD are pretty much the same. It all comes down to estrogen receptors being desensitized. And it’s not oversensitized receptors leading to high E2...

www.excelmale.com

I mean, I reacted with a laugh emoji but on a serious note, females in nature, for example a lioness or hyenas can be super agressive.

For the hyenas, I have found the following article:
Androgens and the role of female "hyperaggressiveness" in spotted hyenas (Crocuta crocuta) - PubMed
In which, it is described that females do not have more T or DHT than males, leaving estrogen on the table (no we cannot say that if they have low T that means low E since E is created from T).

So estrogen causing aggressiveness in humans? could be... but as of now, ill remain with my laugh emoji until someone can provide additional data.

 

[Henchus maximus98736]

I believe OP claim is credible.
Fuck you skinny little cunts HA HA.
I taken a shit load of suicide inhibitors not to mention arimidex.
My last test was borderline low estro and top range test.
De side effectsssssssss

 

[Juicedhead]

does anyone have anymore info on this? Im curious if this will happen to all men? It says on google that type 1 inhibitors will inactivate meaning permanent and then it says there are type 2 inhibitors that its reversable but when i google it it says that aroma, adex, letro are in both groups type 1 and type 2. anyone who has any info please share because i use a lot of arimidex man

 

[Juicedhead]

I believe OP claim is credible.
Fuck you skinny little cunts HA HA.
I taken a shit load of suicide inhibitors not to mention arimidex.
My last test was borderline low estro and top range test.
De side effectsssssssss

wait so youre e2 is low are you on and AI now?

 

[Mrhairyman]

Regardless of dose, all AI make me feel terrible emotionally and mentally. I lowered my test-c (100 x2/week) and take 50 mg zinc daily.
I get better physical results at a higher test dose, but it is not worth my sanity.