Astro + European pharma bloods

My weakness is reading these tests. The fellas will be around soon to help. I really wanna see the Doc's tests on Astro's gear.
I may be mistaken but I think Astro's Mast E, wasn't, a ways back. I would be surprised if that worked itself out. Meaning I bet the Mast E is not Drost E. If you are experiencing bloat on a dose of Test P that you normally wouldn't or if you are new to Test P but are having more bloat on Prop than you would on Test E, it wouldn't be to far of Stretch to suspect the Mast(drost) E is a long estered Test.
 
My weakness is reading these tests. The fellas will be around soon to help. I really wanna see the Doc's tests on Astro's gear.
I may be mistaken but I think Astro's Mast E, wasn't, a ways back. I would be surprised if that worked itself out. Meaning I bet the Mast E is not Drost E. If you are experiencing bloat on a dose of Test P that you normally wouldn't or if you are new to Test P but are having more bloat on Prop than you would on Test E, it wouldn't be to far of Stretch to suspect the Mast(drost) E is a long estered Test.

I had considered this, however wouldnt you think the TT bloods are a bit low for that to be the case? To me it seems the "pharma" aromasin may not really be "pharma" aromasin. Lots of things running through my mind
 
Running 50mg European pharmaceuticals aromasin ED as well. Noticed if i dosed any less, id start noticing some bloat. Not sure what to make of this.

Well fuck... That's not good Brother... 50mg is really high... I'd think you'd be crashed at that dose....
 
Well fuck... That's not good Brother... 50mg is really high... I'd think you'd be crashed at that dose....

I would have thought the same. Started dosing very low around 12.5 EOD however I noticed it wasnt doing nearly enough for the bloat/nips so I continued tapering up until sides dissapeared. Found myself at 50mg ED to keep things under control.
 
Aromasin really is a weaker AI than either adex or letro. It doesn't surprise me at all that you need to dose so high daily but at least your E2 is in range.
Then why are people so willing to pay such a huge tax to get aromasin instead of using the cheaper and more in supply adex? I don't get what the infatuation with aromasin is. The point of the AI is one thing, to control your estrogen, why not what's the cheapest and most readily available product that works? what am I missing here? I have never even considered using anything other than adex, it works great, I take my 0.5mg every day and i feel great...
 
Aromasin really is a weaker AI than either adex or letro. It doesn't surprise me at all that you need to dose so high daily but at least your E2 is in range.
^^this, also if I remember correctly, the half-life of Aromasin is just under 12 hours. This could play a factor in bloat if there are significant hormonal changes taking place daily that aren't being taken in to account
 
You get more wiggle room with ARO as far as tuning your E2 levels for your desired goals. I also read from meso's profiles that ARO can be used in pct because it is not contraindicated with nolva like letro/adex.

Thus allowing you to manage the E2 rebound when coming off the AAS and AI. I'm gonna give it a shot for this cycle's pct. (Nolva/Clomid/Aro)
 
Then why are people so willing to pay such a huge tax to get aromasin instead of using the cheaper and more in supply adex? I don't get what the infatuation with aromasin is. The point of the AI is one thing, to control your estrogen, why not what's the cheapest and most readily available product that works? what am I missing here? I have never even considered using anything other than adex, it works great, I take my 0.5mg every day and i feel great...

Bc people are mislead by certain claims of aromasin. They're attracted to its suicidal properties which in the big picture don't matter if you're properly using your AI. They also mistakenly believe it's more effective than adex due to some numbers being published but they don't realize what those numbers actually represent. Adex is what I use bc it is more effective, I need less of it, it's cheaper, and has a longer half life.
 
Bc people are mislead by certain claims of aromasin. They're attracted to its suicidal properties which in the big picture don't matter if you're properly using your AI. They also mistakenly believe it's more effective than adex due to some numbers being published but they don't realize what those numbers actually represent. Adex is what I use bc it is more effective, I need less of it, it's cheaper, and has a longer half life.
I started on adex because my urologist prescribes it to me. I asked him about the other popular AI's and he laughed saying people are always trying to reinvent the wheel, and to stick with adex as it works, and my insurance will easily cover it. It costs me about 3 bucks for 15mg's, can't really complain.
 
You get more wiggle room with ARO as far as tuning your E2 levels for your desired goals. I also read from meso's profiles that ARO can be used in pct because it is not contraindicated with nolva like letro/adex.

Thus allowing you to manage the E2 rebound when coming off the AAS and AI. I'm gonna give it a shot for this cycle's pct. (Nolva/Clomid/Aro)

The E2 rebound is like the unicorn everyone talks about but no one ever sees. Use your AI correctly and there is no way you'll ever experience the rebound effect if it actually does exist.

Adex and letro are not contraindicated with Nolva. This was thought to be the case at first but a somewhat recent study has shown this to be misleading. Nolva lowers serum levels of the adex but this drop in serum levels, in the recent study, was shown to not affect efficacy of the adex treatment.
 
Here is the study for anyone wishing to read it

Journal home > Archive > Regular Articles > Abstract
Regular Article
bjc_open.gif
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British Journal of Cancer (2001) 85, 317–324. doi:10.1054/bjoc.2001.1925http://www.bjcancer.com/ (www.bjcancer.com)
Published online 31 July 2001

Pharmacokinetics of anastrozole and tamoxifen alone, and in combination, during adjuvant endocrine therapy for early breast cancer in postmenopausal women: a sub-protocol of the ‘Arimidex™ and Tamoxifen Alone or in Combination’ (ATAC) trial
The ATAC Trialists' Group1,*

Topof page
Abstract
The ATAC trial evaluates in a randomized, double-blind design, Arimidex™ (anastrozole) alone or in combination with tamoxifen, relative to tamoxifen alone as 5-year adjuvant treatment in postmenopausal women with early breast cancer. Patients included in the pharmacokinetic (PK) sub-protocol had been in ATAC for ≥3 months, taking their medication in the morning and were 100% compliant for the preceding 14 days. Blood samples were collected 24 ± 4h after last dose. Trough (Cmin) plasma concentrations of anastrozole, tamoxifen and desmethyltamoxifen (DMT) were measured by validated methods. The PK results were based on a total of 347 patients (131 anastrozole (1mg o.d.), 111 tamoxifen (20mg o.d.), 105 anastrozole and tamoxifen (1 and 20mg o.d. respectively)). The geometric mean steady-state trough plasma concentrations of tamoxifen and DMT were statistically equivalent in patients receiving tamoxifen alone or in combination with anastrozole: geometric mean tamoxifen = 94.8ng ml–1and 95.3ng ml–1in tamoxifen alone and combination groups, respectively; geometric mean DMT = 265.1 and 277.6ng ml−1in the tamoxifen and anastrozole and tamoxifen groups, respectively. The geometric mean anastrozole levels were 27% lower (90% Cl 20–33%; P < 0.001) in the presence of tamoxifen than with anastrozole alone. Baseline plasma oestradiol levels were not obtained in the PK sub-protocol, however, such information was available from a similar ATAC sub-protocol, which evaluated bone mineral density. Mean oestradiol levels were 21.3, 19.3, and 21.6pmol l−1prior to treatment and 3.7, 20.9 and 3.6pmol l−1after 3 months in the anastrozole, tamoxifen, and combination groups, respectively (n= 167). On-treatment values were below the detection limit (3pmol l−1) in 43.6 and 38.5% of the anastrozole alone and anastrozole in combination with tamoxifen groups, respectively. As a result of (a) the lack of effect of anastrozole on tamoxifen and DMT levels and (b) the observed fall in blood anastrozole levels having no significant effect on oestradiol suppression by anastrozole, we conclude that the observed reduction in anastrozole levels by tamoxifen is unlikely to be of clinical significance when anastrozole and tamoxifen are administered together. © 2001 Cancer Research Campaign
 
Here is the study for anyone wishing to read it

Journal home > Archive > Regular Articles > Abstract
Regular Article
bjc_open.gif
spacer.gif

British Journal of Cancer (2001) 85, 317–324. doi:10.1054/bjoc.2001.1925http://www.bjcancer.com/ (www.bjcancer.com)
Published online 31 July 2001

Pharmacokinetics of anastrozole and tamoxifen alone, and in combination, during adjuvant endocrine therapy for early breast cancer in postmenopausal women: a sub-protocol of the ‘Arimidex™ and Tamoxifen Alone or in Combination’ (ATAC) trial
The ATAC Trialists' Group1,*

Topof page
Abstract
The ATAC trial evaluates in a randomized, double-blind design, Arimidex™ (anastrozole) alone or in combination with tamoxifen, relative to tamoxifen alone as 5-year adjuvant treatment in postmenopausal women with early breast cancer. Patients included in the pharmacokinetic (PK) sub-protocol had been in ATAC for ≥3 months, taking their medication in the morning and were 100% compliant for the preceding 14 days. Blood samples were collected 24 ± 4h after last dose. Trough (Cmin) plasma concentrations of anastrozole, tamoxifen and desmethyltamoxifen (DMT) were measured by validated methods. The PK results were based on a total of 347 patients (131 anastrozole (1mg o.d.), 111 tamoxifen (20mg o.d.), 105 anastrozole and tamoxifen (1 and 20mg o.d. respectively)). The geometric mean steady-state trough plasma concentrations of tamoxifen and DMT were statistically equivalent in patients receiving tamoxifen alone or in combination with anastrozole: geometric mean tamoxifen = 94.8ng ml–1and 95.3ng ml–1in tamoxifen alone and combination groups, respectively; geometric mean DMT = 265.1 and 277.6ng ml−1in the tamoxifen and anastrozole and tamoxifen groups, respectively. The geometric mean anastrozole levels were 27% lower (90% Cl 20–33%; P < 0.001) in the presence of tamoxifen than with anastrozole alone. Baseline plasma oestradiol levels were not obtained in the PK sub-protocol, however, such information was available from a similar ATAC sub-protocol, which evaluated bone mineral density. Mean oestradiol levels were 21.3, 19.3, and 21.6pmol l−1prior to treatment and 3.7, 20.9 and 3.6pmol l−1after 3 months in the anastrozole, tamoxifen, and combination groups, respectively (n= 167). On-treatment values were below the detection limit (3pmol l−1) in 43.6 and 38.5% of the anastrozole alone and anastrozole in combination with tamoxifen groups, respectively. As a result of (a) the lack of effect of anastrozole on tamoxifen and DMT levels and (b) the observed fall in blood anastrozole levels having no significant effect on oestradiol suppression by anastrozole, we conclude that the observed reduction in anastrozole levels by tamoxifen is unlikely to be of clinical significance when anastrozole and tamoxifen are administered together. © 2001 Cancer Research Campaign
Man, and they still haven't changed it on the Arimidex website copyrighted this year:
http://m.arimidex.com/m/

Thanks doc
 
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