Axle labs under-dosed test

[Broccolihead]

My test just came back at 843 ng/dl on 300mg of axle labs test e the day after pinning. My test on 200mg of ultima test e was 779ng/dl. Kinda thinking that axles test is under-dosed like severely. I’m on 300mg test e, 300mg mast e, 600mg deca all from axle. 843ng/dl makes no sense for 300mg of test right?
Not trynna hate on axle Ive used a lot of their stuff, just making me wondering if it’s dosed correctly. Gonna send it to janoshik.

 

[Juiced_lizard]

My test just came back at 843 ng/dl on 300mg of axle labs test e the day after pinning. My test on 200mg of ultima test e was 779ng/dl. Kinda thinking that axles test is under-dosed like severely. I’m on 300mg test e, 300mg mast e, 600mg deca all from axle. 843ng/dl makes no sense for 300mg of test right?View attachment 319369

Why don’t you kinda like send it off for testing if you are worried about it? Everyone responds differently. I could take 1000mg and could get 843ng/dl. Maybe you need 400mg? There are way to many variables. There is not some set number that X amount of test will get X amount of test on blood work.

 

[Broccolihead]

Why don’t you kinda like send it off for testing if you are worried about it? Everyone responds differently. I could take 1000mg and could get 843ng/dl. Maybe you need 400mg? There are way to many variables. There is not some set number that X amount of test will get X amount of test on blood work.

Yea I’m gonna go send it to janoshik I get that there isn’t a universal linear graph for dosage and test levels but my test seems quite low for the dosage especially since it was nearly the same on 200mg of a different lab.

 

[Juiced_lizard]

Yea I’m gonna go send it to janoshik I get that there isn’t a universal linear graph for dosage and test levels but my test seems quite low for the dosage.

There are way to many variables to determine it. I don’t think 300mg is technically “low” for 843 personally.

 

[Juiced_lizard]

Yea I’m gonna go send it to janoshik I get that there isn’t a universal linear graph for dosage and test levels but my test seems quite low for the dosage especially since it was nearly the same on 200mg of a different lab.

Are there differences in carrier oils? Did you have the same amount of time between pin vs blood drawn for ultima?

 

[readalot]

Yea I’m gonna go send it to janoshik I get that there isn’t a universal linear graph for dosage and test levels but my test seems quite low for the dosage especially since it was nearly the same on 200mg of a different lab.

There actually is but we'd need more info from you.

R

Post in thread 'Tool to Assess your TT dose response --Percentile Curves'

Oct 5, 2023

Linear version of graph....
You can use regression equations from Bi 2018 study to get low, mean, high estimates for TT level vs weekly equivalent dose.



Here’s the mean TT level (ng/dl) for 70. mg/week of Test Cypionate (see equations on chart below):

2.5 percentile response = 360
50 percentile response = 630
97.5 percentile response = 1200

Don't forget to use this table to convert your blood work result (trough) on given dosing protocol to mean:


Table: conversion between peak/trough/mean for first order absorption/elimination PK model assuming 4.5 day elimination...

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and it doesn't take the place of testing your product. But helpful to get range of expected responses (2.5 to 97.5%tile).

Your SHBG plays a huge role in Total T number. That number can be affected by the other androgens you are using. Also you want to make sure you are using LCMS testing for Total T.

 

[Broccolihead]

Are there differences in carrier oils? Did you have the same amount of time between pin vs blood drawn for ultima?

I believe the only difference was that I was pinning the ultima 3x per week while I’m pinning axles 2x per week.

 

[Broccolihead]

Your SHBG plays a huge role in Total T number. That number can be affected by the other androgens you are using. Also you want to make sure you are using LCMS testing for Total T.

On the 200mg ultima test e my free test was 241pg/ml with an shbg of 7.

On 300mg of axles test e my free test is 253pg/ml with an shbg of 6.

So I don’t really get the relationship between total t and shbg. Reading that low shbg will cause lower total t but higher free test. I get why free test goes up but if total t also includes free t I don’t get how it goes down substantially. What I’ve read is that bound testosterone goes down more than free test goes up when shbg is low. Is more test getting converted to e2 and dht or something when free t is high causing total test to be lower with low shbg?

 

[readalot]

On the 200mg ultima test e my free test was 241pg/ml with an shbg of 7.

On 300mg of axles test e my free test is 253pg/ml with an shbg of 6.

So I don’t really get the relationship between total t and shbg. Reading that low shbg will cause lower total t but higher free test. I get why free test goes up but if total t also includes free t I don’t get how it goes down substantially. What I’ve read is that bound testosterone goes down more than free test goes up when shbg is low. Is more test getting converted to e2 and dht or something when free t is high causing total test to be lower with low shbg?

Some relevant explanation here.

Search results for query: Ft dose proportional

thinksteroids.com

R

Post in thread 'High E2'

Jan 9, 2024

Maybe your shbg droped and you have more free T and thus more E2

Funny you mention I am doing a follow up experiment to answer this one more time. Last time I did it I only estimated FT with Vermeulen and FT was invariant to SHBG drop (via oxandrolone) under the constraints of constant exogenous Test dosing.

This time I am measuring TT (LCMS) and FT (equilibrium dialysis) with 200 mg/week Test Cyp (trough at E3.5D) with and without 50 mg/day oxandrolone.

For many years now we have been been talking about this at ExcelMale and TNation. The hypothesis is that lowering SHBG may...

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[readalot]

On the 200mg ultima test e my free test was 241pg/ml with an shbg of 7.

On 300mg of axles test e my free test is 253pg/ml with an shbg of 6.

So I don’t really get the relationship between total t and shbg. Reading that low shbg will cause lower total t but higher free test. I get why free test goes up but if total t also includes free t I don’t get how it goes down substantially. What I’ve read is that bound testosterone goes down more than free test goes up when shbg is low. Is more test getting converted to e2 and dht or something when free t is high causing total test to be lower with low shbg?

And to be clear your SHBG is crashed so outlier range. That explains your very low TT. Hence we really can't use that TT value to conclude the product is underdosed given your dosing.

What would be instructive for you is to calculate your Vermeulen calculated fT from your SHBG and TT.

Calculated FT = 32 ng/dl which is decent fT trough for twice weekly protocol with total of 300 mg/week.

Free & Bioavailable Testosterone calculator

 

[Broccolihead]

Calculated FT = 32 ng/dl which is decent fT trough for twice weekly protocol with total of 300 mg/week.

Is this different than the free t of 253pg/ml on my bloodwork? Wouldn’t the bloodwork be the most accurate measure of free t? Sorry shbg makes my head spin I appreciate the feedback.

 

[readalot]

Is this different than the free t of 253pg/ml on my bloodwork? Wouldn’t the bloodwork be the most accurate measure of free t? Sorry shbg makes my head spin I appreciate the feedback.

Perhaps that was an equilibrium dialysis measurement? Usually that runs a little lower than calculated by 10 to 20%.

All your values above are trough? Remember one value is with 3x per week and the other with 2x. Agreed though that even taking all that into account it is hard to reconcile your 200 vs 300 mg/week values. Welcome to the fun world of pharmacokinetics and free T. Much more conclusive to HPLC test the product.

Edit: went back above and see you did in fact run the dialysis panel for fT.

 

[Broccolihead]

Much more conclusive to HPLC test the product.

It sounds like there are so many variables here, I’m just gonna send it to janoshik and wait till I get results to draw any conclusions. Definitely a bit shocked that my tt came back that low tho. Thanks for ur help man.

 

[readalot]

It sounds like there are so many variables here, I’m just gonna send it to janoshik and wait till I get results to draw any conclusions. Definitely a bit shocked that my tt came back that low tho. Thanks for ur help man.

Sorry can't be more help. Yep, bottom line is that would be only conclusive way to get your answer. Much harder to rule out a product properly dosed than confirm it is within typical numbers using bloodwork.

Perhaps the Ultima was a little overdosed? Hard to say. Good luck.

 

[xrayphoton13]

Get off the masteron for a little bit and recover your shbg some. Also thread title is misleading without a janoshik test to confirm. Blood tests can not determine under dosed gear. Sounds like you've found that out already though and plan to test it. I'd be very surprised if it's under dosed

 

[Broccolihead]

Also thread title is misleading without a janoshik test to confirm.

Definitely not trynna dog on axle, I’ve used a good amount of his stuff and would be very disappointed if the test results showed it to be under-dosed. Just really confused by these results. I can see how the title might make someone think that lab tests showed under-dosed test but I would hope they would click on the thread first before drawing a conclusion solely off the title.

Also my shbg seems to always end up very low on cycle even with just test deca at lower dosages than what I’m using now.