rook48 said:
ya that's what i would be doing as far as switching the deads and squats
alright my workout is pretty much a pyramid workout:
mon: chest
incline bb: 4 - 10-6
flat db: 4 - 10-6
incline flys: 12-8
weighted dips: 10-6
1 RM for flat: 335?
1 RM for incline: 305?
tues: back
deadlift: 5 - 12 - 4 (a lot of time i try for too heavy weight but fail at 2
bent over rows: 4 - 10-6
T-Bar Rows:4 - 10-6
one arm db rows: 3 - 10-6
1 RM for deadlift: 485?
thursday: legs
squat: 5 - 12-4
incline press/hack squat: 4 - 10-6
leg extension: 2 drop sets getting 20-25 reps out of each
hams-
stiff leg deadlift: 4 - 12-8
lying leg curls: 4 - 12-8
calfs-
some type of calf raise at 5x10-6
1 RM for squat: 475?
fri: shoulders and arms
seated mil. press: 5x12-6
upright rows:4x12-6
lateral raises:4x12-6 (last two sets would be drop sets)
1 RM for mil press: 235?
tris:
close grip bench:4x12-6
lying extension:4x12-6
bis:
standing bb curls:4x12-6 (sometimes drop sets)
preacher curls:4x12-6 (sometimes drop sets)
sometimes i'll do tris w/ chest and bis w/ back too.
Okay man - sorry for the wait. So good news and then bad news. Good news is that you are using semi-decent exercises. You can squat/dead and are fairly competent judging by the weight being employed (although I don't know your body weight but weights are very reasonable so there is a good foundation). Bad news: there are fundemental issues with your program. There are guys here who are squatting 3x per week and pulling 6x (and often this is a clean/snatch caught in the squat position so it's nailing the legs to). Obviously you know something is wrong because you are so burned you can't even squat once after you pull and you are thinking about going every other week. This is what needs to be addressed.
If you've read the posts I refereced you noticed a couple of things. First, there are clearly defined phases of these programs. Your program doesn't have this - at best I imagine exercises are changed up every so many weeks and you start again. Second, you are training to failure on a consistent basis and I imagine this is week-in-week out. Now I only have the deadlift weight but doing some math 455/485 = 94%. Being generous and giving you a 500 max 455 is still 91%. So, basically every week you are pulling >90% of your max for around double in the dead going to failure. This is on top of pulling around 84% to failure in the previous set. First, you can't lift at these weights for more than a short time - the intensity is too high and your overall volume is too significant. Second, training to failure on a consistent basis like that employed by many BBers is fairly well accepted outside of BBing to be a great way to NOT grow. Third, if I had to pick a single exercise that you really needed to carefully regulate, it would be the deadlift. This is the body's maximum pull and heavy attempts (no less training to failure with heavy weights) really taxes the posterior chain and can be hard to recover from. Although I may not agree with it, there is a reason why Westside tried to avoided the full deadlift for so long - I believe they are doing more pulling in recent years but I haven't had a chance to follow it much (I am actually going to post a question sometime since a few of the guys here are more familiar).
Anyway, so training to failure comes from the single factor theory of supercompensation. What BBers have done is taken it to an extreme thinking that the closer they can get to absolute 100% arousal failure the stronger the stimulus thus the stronger the response (growth). What they've done is basically taken it to the nth degree. The idea being that you go to the gym, target a muscle, apply a shotgun of different exercises all of which you push yourself to the point of failure on, retreat, recover, and next time you'll be stronger and do the same again - just move right up the chain linearly. Unfortunately it doesn't work like that. Supercompensation doesn't happen workout to workout unless you are a beginner. You need to create a stimulus over a period of time not just a single workout. During this time fatigue accrues as the body tries to recover in a carefully monitored recovery deficit (this period is called loading). After a period of loading and accruing this deficit, the body is allowed to recover (generally by lowering volume) and this is when the body will adapt. The clearest example is the 5x5 program which moves from a high volume/modest intensity loading period into a low volume/high intensity deloading.
You can read all about this stuff in the stickies but that's the jist. Your intensity is too high, you are training to failure and this combination over an extended period is leading to the issue you have now. Not to mention the nature of your workout/programming is leaving some major gains on the table. You are working hard but you can be working smarter. I think of working hard as speed. By working hard you can move 10' every turn. Working smart provides direction. It doesn't do you much good to move 8' sideways and 2' forward. It is far more efficient to move 10' forward. First you work smart in learning and developing a plan. Then you bust your ass and work hard at it. Right now you are digging a trench with one of those plastic shovels and pails the kids have at the beach. Use a backhoe and be done with it.
So a few other points.
Like anything in life, you can only get good at a certain amount of things at once. If you want to get better at basketball, you need to put time in. You will not progress well in your basketball if you are training for football, soccer, wrestling, and the Pocket Pool World Championship all at once (had to throw a joke sometime - this thing is long). The same is true in the gym but of course it's governed by the constraint of your ability to recover and adapt. So I take this idea and I say, if the best exercise for growing my legs is the squat - why would I do anything else for them? Unless I have a quadracept imbalace or an injury, why would I waste my limited recovery capacity using a leg extension, hack squat, leg press or anything else? Not only that but how am I going to optimally get better at the squat if I'm doing all this other stuff. I want to make optimal use of my workouts which means maximizing the amount of leg growth I get within the constraints of recuperative capacity and time (representing the accuracy of the stimulus - don't confuse the body with too much at once - limit your activities so you can become good at 1 rather than mediocre at 3 - 2 of which mean shit). So that means I am a mizer with my recuperative powers and the exercises I perform. I do only what moves me fastest toward my goal and any assistance work serves the same purpose (meaning that if I even use it, it is targeted to a weak area holding back my core lift). I guess a simple way to say it is, you can get another squat session in if you throw out some garbage that uses more recuperative capcity than it rewards in progress.
Also, recuperative capacity is systemic. Don't think about it in a body part fashion. The best exercises stress the entire body and when you are low on recuperative capacity your body does not say, "Legs, you've been destroyed but you've reached quota. I'm going to work on the chest a bit and buff out the spots." The whole system crashes at once. The 3 day split (or 4 in your case) comes from the idea that part of your body is recovering so you shouldn't touch it until it's done. Complete recovery takes a far longer time than you'd think. You are always in a recovery deficit, managing it is the key. Drop that hitting a body part once per week idea. Of course you can't simply pound on something at 100% day in and day out but the bodypart per week is not the answer to the question - the answer is in regulating volume, intensity, and frequency (which is closely related to volume in that frequency is the division of total volume during training).
Okay, so that's about all I have in me but that should give you a good understanding of the basics on what's going on. In addition to being sub-optimal your current program is debilitating. Although similar to many others - even at the top of BBing, the foundations on which it is based are either wrong or being grossly misapplied. You are leaving a lot on the table and your 10 steps of hard work is not moving you 10 steps forward (this post is the result of more than a few steps left). So I could tell you to lower the % on the dead and train it with more volume. I could also tell you to avoid it for a while. However, you came here for help and that's like putting a bandaid on a bullet wound. You have to go in there, get the bullet out, fix some damage, stitch the guy up, and then explain to him how not to shoot himself again.
So, it's late now and I have to run. There are good examples of programs in the stickies. I'd really suggest the 5x5 as it's a very easy, clear illustration of all of this and it produces great results. It's not like you don't have a solid foundation, it's just the perfect time for you to take it to the next level and use the type of program that gets used all around the world on just about every type of athlete besides BBers - I personally have never solved the mystery on why there is so much misinformation and misapplication in BBing and fitness. Maybe Weider needed to sell that crap for so long they can't discredit themselves now. Shoot, I worked right next to a guy who went on to earn his Pro card fa few months later and had a successful career for a while. We used to talk all the time and the only thing separating him from the noodlearms in the gym was his genetics, diet, and primarily heavy drug usage. He knew less about training and a proper program than you do - I shit you not. None of his non-novice clients grew or progressed worth a crap. The crying shame to me is that a lot of kids have very reasonable goals and are willing to work hard and research but the overwhelming amount of bullshit out there has them stagnating. They label themselves "hardgainers" or "plateaued" and turn to drugs - "just one cycle" of course. That shit burns the hell out of me. Nothing here is rocket science and it is very very commonly employed outside BBing and the run of the mill gyms.
Now it's really late. If anyone has anything to add, or if I missed something, or got something wrong, or offended someone ranked high up on the World Pocket Pool team (techique tips are always appreciated) - feel free to followup.
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