Best way to train for endurance

Isrrike

Well-known Member
Hey fellas I’ve been off all gear for 2 years as trying to have a baby. Now that my sperms back to normal and the craziness of life has come down I am applying for a promotion to join a different team in my profession. My current state of cardio is very poor as I hardly did any when seriously bodybuilding and now being off for so long I have gained some unwanted fat and lost a lot of cardio.

Currently on 2.5mg nebivolol and 5mg Ramipril but it doesn’t seem to affect my hr that much when doing cardio.

Issue I’m having here is I can walk on an incline of 10 at a speed of 3.5 for an hour straight and be fine hovering around 145bpm. However for this promotion I have to achieve a level 7 on a 20m shuttle run as part of one of the fitness tests. I currently am only able to reach stage 3 which is a complete embarassment. You runners and cardio junkies alike think hiit is the best training for this to achieve better endurance to reach the higher level. I’m also starting Cardarine to give myself a boost and some motivation to get going.
 
Hey fellas I’ve been off all gear for 2 years as trying to have a baby. Now that my sperms back to normal and the craziness of life has come down I am applying for a promotion to join a different team in my profession. My current state of cardio is very poor as I hardly did any when seriously bodybuilding and now being off for so long I have gained some unwanted fat and lost a lot of cardio.

Currently on 2.5mg nebivolol and 5mg Ramipril but it doesn’t seem to affect my hr that much when doing cardio.

Issue I’m having here is I can walk on an incline of 10 at a speed of 3.5 for an hour straight and be fine hovering around 145bpm. However for this promotion I have to achieve a level 7 on a 20m shuttle run as part of one of the fitness tests. I currently am only able to reach stage 3 which is a complete embarassment. You runners and cardio junkies alike think hiit is the best training for this to achieve better endurance to reach the higher level. I’m also starting Cardarine to give myself a boost and some motivation to get going.
If you need to pass that shuttle run you got to get specific ,walking is great for general health but it won't be much use in your test.Mimic test start slow then ramp up intensity until you can hit your goal as for how often etc hopefully an expert can chime in.
 
Ugh. I don't miss that test at all. I had to do it once a year in the military. I almost failed it a few times. Mongo don't run too good. I wish I had advice to give but I don't. All I can offer is my sympathy lol
 
I'd love to see this discussed more. I'm trying to become a Cardio King, though really have little idea about optimal training programs. I've got a decent grasp of bodybuilding literature, but Cardiovascular health and performance eludes me.

How much Zone 2 per week? How much HIIT? What metrics should I be tracking (e.g. METs, Watts, etc.)? How do I program it? Am I better to do 2x 45 min cardio sessions daily, or one 90min session? What adjustments should I make to my diet? What gear protocols are most conducive? Etc. Etc.

Really don't know where to start. Atm just trying to get about 4hrs of varied Zone 2 work in (around 130-140bpm) a week, and 2 HIIT sessions.
 
I am in a similar boat. I have made some good progress with cardio training mainly by just having fun. It was very informal. But now I'm spending time learning about training and a more systematic approach to progress.
 
I am in a similar boat. I have made some good progress with cardio training mainly by just having fun. It was very informal. But now I'm spending time learning about training and a more systematic approach to progress.
Crazy how our body reacts to different types of excercise. I’m actually going for a test at the hospital soon that’s like a stress test but will check what gives out first during strenuous cardio. Lungs heart or muscles
 
Crazy how our body reacts to different types of excercise. I’m actually going for a test at the hospital soon that’s like a stress test but will check what gives out first during strenuous cardio. Lungs heart or muscles

That seems like a super cool test.

How did your goal in the original post go? Make it to level 7?
 
That seems like a super cool test.

How did your goal in the original post go? Make it to level 7?
I wasn’t able to complete it actually. Maybe I needed alot more time than I thought. I do have other tests like 65lbs of weight added via vest and shoulder weights and walk unassisted on a stairclimber at 60 steps/min for 3 mins and a couple 200lb dummy drags coming up
 
My best advice for raising V02 max and just cardio In general. Miles per week. Start slow. 10-11 minute miles 2-3 miles at a time until your lungs adapt. The more miles per week, the better.
 
I was a distance runner in high school. Our XC terrain was a mixture of everything in New England. Our coach was training folks for the Olympics. Rules of training:
1: good shoes- have someone check your running style. Some shoes have too much “tech”. We were sponsored by ASICS, majority of their shoes are good.
2: stretch- like a rubber band; if it’s cold, it’ll snap when under tension. We spent an hour stretching.
3: breathing: each breath need to be deliberate and deep. Full inhale and exhales with a slight pause at peak.
4: distance: don’t look at time- practice your breath work. cover 6 miles minimum when doing it non stop no matter how slow, you move faster than a brisk walk (jog). It’s important you expand you lungs and breath deliberately.
5: once your breathing synced up; start .25-.365mi sprints followed by the same same distance jogging. Imperative you maintain the breathwork and do not bend over. The entirety of program your posture must stay upright and erect. You’ll do this with goal of the full 6 miles.

I stopped running for a good 6 years. Followed those old steps and was able to run 21 miles in 3 hours. Miles went from 17 minutes to 14 minutes. Stopped for another 8 and recently ran a mile at 16 minutes. Synced up my breathing and worked on my posture and the steps. Last week I smoked college students on the track doing 1.5mi in 11 minutes.

If anything, proper stretches and breathing has made running a breeze. My sprints have become more explosive as well.

Train hard brotha.
 
If you want to excel at a certain task, you have to train at that task. Take the shuttle run for example, If I wanted to pass the test, I would do the test over and over and over. Eventually, you will be so proficient at the task it will be second nature. I know its easier said than done, but nothing replaces hard work.
 
I was a distance runner in high school. Our XC terrain was a mixture of everything in New England. Our coach was training folks for the Olympics. Rules of training:
1: good shoes- have someone check your running style. Some shoes have too much “tech”. We were sponsored by ASICS, majority of their shoes are good.
2: stretch- like a rubber band; if it’s cold, it’ll snap when under tension. We spent an hour stretching.
3: breathing: each breath need to be deliberate and deep. Full inhale and exhales with a slight pause at peak.
4: distance: don’t look at time- practice your breath work. cover 6 miles minimum when doing it non stop no matter how slow, you move faster than a brisk walk (jog). It’s important you expand you lungs and breath deliberately.
5: once your breathing synced up; start .25-.365mi sprints followed by the same same distance jogging. Imperative you maintain the breathwork and do not bend over. The entirety of program your posture must stay upright and erect. You’ll do this with goal of the full 6 miles.

I stopped running for a good 6 years. Followed those old steps and was able to run 21 miles in 3 hours. Miles went from 17 minutes to 14 minutes. Stopped for another 8 and recently ran a mile at 16 minutes. Synced up my breathing and worked on my posture and the steps. Last week I smoked college students on the track doing 1.5mi in 11 minutes.

If anything, proper stretches and breathing has made running a breeze. My sprints have become more explosive as well.

Train hard brotha.
This sounds like an interesting practise. I always think there is a lot to gain from pace changes as they build strength through acceleration and over xc terrain the ability to recover pace after an obstacle or tight turn without incurring a high lactate cost is a great asset in a race.

I fancy trying something like this but I guess the devil is in the detail here with how fast "sprint" is and how slow "jog" is. The practise could impact a lot of different ways depending on the answer. How do you roughly pace it? Is "sprint" something like 5k pace?

For me I could see myself trying it with 10K pace "sprints" at first (since it is a 10K distance) Just having to take yourself 24 times to that pace swiftly enough to make a meaningful quarter mile would be a big effort and you would have run half a ten K course at race pace plus the accelerations which might be overall fairly impacting? Anyway would be glad of your thoughts as I could see myself trialling something along these lines this next week.
 
Sprint is pedal to the metal, all the gas in the tank and whatever boosters you feel you have. The Jog is your normal distance speed. The goal is to NOT WALK and do as your body allows. You stop, you fail- DO NOT WALK. I forgot to mention, rest days were weight days. Mostly back, hip, and core to reinforce posture and safe running.
 
I think it can't be really pedal to the metal or you would break. Milers have broken world records with their hard workout being 10 quarters off 3 min rests @ target 1 mile pace. (So if you wanted a 4 minute mile you would do 10 quarters @ 1 min of running with 3 mins of chilling between). Its the limit of what a really good miler can do to hold 1 mile pace for those 10 quarters with that long rest and its a mighty workout that shouldn't really be done too often.

12 quarters @ 1 mile pace off a one quarter jog rest, which will be faster than 12 mins a mile for all club runners -hence shorter than 3 mins but running as well, is a big step up from this notorious record breaking work out. I don't think there are many athletes in the world who could do that @ their real 1 mile pace. Ingebrigtsen maybe? But no one could do a pedal to the metal pace. I don't know about 2 mile pace (but it would be beyond me). I think it must be the the feeling of full out effort towards the end that counts?

That said, it does sound like a cool work out, if one can get the pacing right. I will gradually make some experiments. Accelerations and holding form under pressure are great things to work on. It would be a work out I would be interested in doing and prescribing if I could get the intensity right. You can't whack an endurance runner too often or too hard (or cortisol just kills his Test, hydrogen ions burn his muscle too much and mess his CNS up) but there may be a toned down version that can be done weekly and a hard version every other week.

It might be very cool at target race pace on a 10k xc course that the athlete will race later in the year. He could practise every section at target race pace if he alternates the jog and run sections on alternate weeks. Then a harder version occasionally? I have done something similar at target race pace to prepare athletes for shorter xc distances. They find it a very hard work out but the longer distance with a slower race pace might be better?
 
You’re 100% spot on and thank you for sharing that info. Definitely bridged that level of detail my response was lacking. That mindset is what brings you to your baseline for syncing pace. That breath work when you’re gassed does wonders especially if you’re a smoker.

It’s like taking a limit of a variable. You’re going to continue on to that goal but you’ll never really reach it. So define sprint and jog whichever makes you successful. But DO NOT STOP.

We should link up for a workout and run homie.

I think it can't be really pedal to the metal or you would break. Milers have broken world records with their hard workout being 10 quarters off 3 min rests @ target 1 mile pace. (So if you wanted a 4 minute mile you would do 10 quarters @ 1 min of running with 3 mins of chilling between). It’s the limit of what a really good miler can do to hold 1 mile pace for those 10 quarters with that long rest and it’s a mighty workout that shouldn't really be done too often.

12 quarters @ 1 mile pace off a one quarter jog rest, which will be faster than 12 mins a mile for all club runners -hence shorter than 3 mins but running as well, is a big step up from this notorious record breaking work out. I don't think there are many athletes in the world who could do that @ their real 1 mile pace. Ingebrigtsen maybe? But no one could do a pedal to the metal pace. I don't know about 2 mile pace (but it would be beyond me). I think it must be the the feeling of full out effort towards the end that counts?

That said, it does sound like a cool work out, if one can get the pacing right. I will gradually make some experiments. Accelerations and holding form under pressure are great things to work on. It would be a work out I would be interested in doing and prescribing if I could get the intensity right. You can't whack an endurance runner too often or too hard (or cortisol just kills his Test, hydrogen ions burn his muscle too much and mess his CNS up) but there may be a toned down version that can be done weekly and a hard version every other week.

It might be very cool at target race pace on a 10k xc course that the athlete will race later in the year. He could practise every section at target race pace if he alternates the jog and run sections on alternate weeks. Then a harder version occasionally? I have done something similar at target race pace to prepare athletes for shorter xc distances. They find it a very hard work out but the longer distance with a slower race pace might be better?
 
Hey fellas I’ve been off all gear for 2 years as trying to have a baby. Now that my sperms back to normal and the craziness of life has come down I am applying for a promotion to join a different team in my profession. My current state of cardio is very poor as I hardly did any when seriously bodybuilding and now being off for so long I have gained some unwanted fat and lost a lot of cardio.

Currently on 2.5mg nebivolol and 5mg Ramipril but it doesn’t seem to affect my hr that much when doing cardio.

Issue I’m having here is I can walk on an incline of 10 at a speed of 3.5 for an hour straight and be fine hovering around 145bpm. However for this promotion I have to achieve a level 7 on a 20m shuttle run as part of one of the fitness tests. I currently am only able to reach stage 3 which is a complete embarassment. You runners and cardio junkies alike think hiit is the best training for this to achieve better endurance to reach the higher level. I’m also starting Cardarine to give myself a boost and some motivation to get going.

20 metre timed runs. The beep test

Crazy how our body reacts to different types of excercise. I’m actually going for a test at the hospital soon that’s like a stress test but will check what gives out first during strenuous cardio. Lungs heart or muscles

I wasn’t able to complete it actually. Maybe I needed alot more time than I thought. I do have other tests like 65lbs of weight added via vest and shoulder weights and walk unassisted on a stairclimber at 60 steps/min for 3 mins and a couple 200lb dummy drags coming up
So, what happened??? Did you pass? How did you train?
 
Best thing to get your wind (endurance) up IMO is burpees and rowing. When I was a crossfit fag and was eating and breathing WOD's sprints became a joke to me after ergos and burpees.
I did a beep test with some buddies trying their damnedest for firefighting and another guy for military or police, can't remember... Anyway I won all three times.
Now, crossfit alone makes you look like a melted candle, so do not recommend that. However that was my experience.
Every now and then I do 100 burpees as fast as I can, 20 at a time to see where I'm at and its a great measure for where I am.
The military and guys in prison love burpees for a reason, they fucking suck and it very quickly becomes a game in your head.
 
If I were to set out a training plan for the beep test, burpees would definitely be in the s and c section.

I think the individual athlete will need to approach training slightly differently depending on his particular muscle make up and background.

The beep test tests the limits of both the aerobic system and the anaerobic system at the same time, so we need ideally to prepare both systems.
At no point will the athlete be running his fastest, he will eventually fail because he will be overcome by the by-products of the anaerobic system (which he will progressively rely on more and more as the test progresses). We therefore will also do well to increase the athlete's max speed ability so that he is using a smaller fraction of his full capacity, thus drawing less hard on his anaerobic system early in the test.

So we want to;
increase anaerobic power (ATP delivery) and anaerobic buffering (against hydrogen ions),
increase the body's ability to clear the by products of the anaerobic system
increase the aerobic system's own ability to deliver ATP to take the heat off the anaerobic system,
increase the athlete's pure speed ability (so his muscle usage is more fractional)
Whatever we do, it should be to these goals and we would do well to try to tick all these boxes with some component of the training.

First off, probably a universal supplementation recommendation that will pass a drug's test would be;
Beta alanine daily @ 4-6 g for at least a month before the test (this is to max the last gasp power of the anaerobic system),
Caffeine on the day 1 hour before the test @ roughly 6mg/kg (experiment to find your personal sweet spot) -this is to max the oxygen delivery of the aerobic system (it does change the fuel of the aerobic system a bit too but the test is too short for this to really count),
Baking soda about 2 hours before the test @ 0.3g/kg (with a couple of practises first so you don't crap yourself) -this is to buffer the muscles and nerves against the hydrogen ions released with the lactic acid that the anaerobic system turns out.

The individual athlete should ideally look to his own muscle makeup in choosing his training plan. If he has a higher proportion of fast twitch fibres, he needs to be very careful about overloading his muscles with lactate and causing damage that will reduce his gains. If he is a good sprinter, footballer, soccer player, or lifter, he probably has more and better developed fast twitch fibres. If he comes from an endurance background, he can be a little more free with lactate baths (this is a bit counter intuitive and missed by a lot of coaches) .

What is not always appreciated is that muscle fibres work in harmony in endurance events. The very favourite food of slow twitch fibres is actually lactate. So if you have a lot of well developed slow twitch fibres full of hungry mitochondria, fed oxygen by a great blood supply, they hoover up your lactate. You can take a harder work out than the guy who does lots of gym work and has a less well developed "waste recycling system" Smashing yourself in the gym might be good for hypertrophy but we are looking for performance here and the fast twitch guy needs to be gentle on himself or he cooks himself early and (against his expectations) lowers his performance gains.

Both types of athlete are in a situation where their main strength is also their weakness when it comes to the beep test (this is what makes it such a cool test, it's a bit of an equaliser). The endurance guy has a weaker anaerobic system that is soon running close to capacity but which can be cleared fast. The well trained fast twitch guy can't clear himself fast but is using only a small fraction of his power and has more in reserve at the mid point of the test.

So it will be a bit personal how the athlete approaches the training and both types should look to their weaknesses if they have already been working their strengths in their main sport but some ideas are;
10 x 200 metres off 2 min rests to develop the anaerobic system and speed endurance without cooking yourself too much
4 x 400 metres off 3 mins
Running hard into and out of a turn with a 1 min rest at each end (to practise the form, deceleration and acceleration)
A weekly zone 2 long run to develop mitochondria and slow twitch muscles (this will be counter intuitively faster for the endurance athlete and must be very slow for the speed athlete or he will be filling up on the hydrogen ions that come with his lactate)
Vo2 max intervals -run @ 2 mile race pace for X time. Rest for X time, repeat quite a few times. (Hard practise to use sparingly but it develops max oxygen delivery).
The odd longer harder effort at about 10 k pace for about 20 minutes to practise lactate clearance or a fartlek type session where you vary pace between jog and sprint.
Pure speed development -run almost as fast as you can for no more than 10 seconds and only 6 at full speed, (aiming to tax only the Creatine phosphate energy system and the nervous system, keeping your lactate minimal). Concentrate on taking very fast steps with high knee lift. Rest at least 3 mins between reps to allow creatine phosphate to replenish.
Plenty of good S and C -the kind of things the marines put recruits through.
And last but far from least -practise the test itself seriously once a month and gently maybe once a fortnight. Bear in mind this is a maximal test. Don't do this on a bad day. Training is not the main event. You don't have to take it to the limit to still get the benefit of the training. Probably you will actually get more physical benefit by a sub maximal practise -your gains will be retained more because you will not have cooked yourself as much. The occasional maximal practise will be good mental preparation.
 
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