Beware of Serms

[hotdog23]

http://press.endocrine.org/doi/abs/10.1210/endo-meetings.2014.NP.28.MON-0732

I already had read on the effects of tamox and ralox, but didn't know about clomid. Understand those participating in study have acromegaly, so for us mere mortals we may not see such a drastic reduction in IGF levels. Makes me never wanna pct again..

 

[Docd187123]

Dude, most PCTs last only 4wks.....

 

[Michael Scally MD]

GMAFB!!!

Patients and method. Sixteen male patients (median age: 52.5 years, range 34-79 years) met the following criteria: one or more years of continuous acromegaly treatment, IGF-1 above the upper limit of normal range (ULNR) for at least one year despite the use of all available medical therapies (Octreotide LAR and/or cabergoline).

Results. During CC treatment, serum IGF-1 levels decreased by 40±14% (mean±SD) (412±101 to 246±82 ng/mL, P=0.0004) leading 56% of patients (9/16) to normalize IGF-1 levels.

BUT, don't pay attention to the testosterone effect!!!

 

[hotdog23]

Dude, most PCTs last only 4wks.....

True, but many ppl use tamox and ralox on cycle for gyno prevention. Im not advocating against SERM pct? LOL @ ppl on this board that can't wait to try an make someone look ignorant.

I should change the thread title. "Clomiphene effect on IGF-1"

I posted this because I personally didn't know this about this particular SERM. Hope it helps someone.

 

[roastdawg]

Kinda sketchy for me as I'm running two on four off with a week of clomid every time.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

True, but many ppl use tamox and ralox on cycle for gyno prevention. Im not advocating against SERM pct? LOL @ ppl on this board that can't wait to try an make someone look ignorant.

I should change the thread title. "Clomiphene effect on IGF-1"

I posted this because I personally didn't know this about this particular SERM. Hope it helps someone.

That is done without anyone's help.

 

[Docd187123]

True, but many ppl use tamox and ralox on cycle for gyno prevention. Im not advocating against SERM pct? LOL @ ppl on this board that can't wait to try an make someone look ignorant.

You didn't need my help for that fortunately.

I also didn't say you were advocating against SERMs but you did say "makes me never want PCT again..."

^^^ that is quite a fear you have though, again, over a 4wk treatment protocol of SERMs.

I should change the thread title. "Clomiphene effect on IGF-1"

Would have been a better title IMO.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

Search & Find: Neuroendocrine Regulation of Growth Hormone and Androgen Axes by Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators in Healthy Men https://thinksteroids.com/community...trate-on-igf-1-levels.134355523/#post-1033540

 

[hotdog23]

Search & Find: Neuroendocrine Regulation of Growth Hormone and Androgen Axes by Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators in Healthy Men https://thinksteroids.com/community...trate-on-igf-1-levels.134355523/#post-1033540

Yes read that one before, seen some conflicting info

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15978972/

Seems it would have same "hepatic agonist" effect as tamox, as it didn't effect igfbp3 ?
That study is longer though. 3months vs 2weeks

 

[hotdog23]

Kinda sketchy for me as I'm running two on four off with a week of clomid every time.

Like @Docd187123 said, not a big deal for 4 weeks, def manageable for 10-14 days. I would prefer to avoid it altogether. And so far I haven't seen any info on when levels (IGF-1, igfbp3) would normalize, post pct