Bill Roberts Homebrew – No Benzyl Alcohol?

[Renegade22]

In MESO-Rx article “The Guide to Making Your Own Injectable Anabolic Steroids,” staff member Bill Roberts states:

“ If not using any benzyl alcohol—and I prefer to use none—then after the 19 mL total of powder and solubility enhancer in our example, we have 31 mL left to make up our total volume of 50 mL ... ”
​

• If no alternative bacteriostat is added to the solution, under practical conditions, how long would a vial remain likely remain viable before it becomes a hazard?*
  
  * Sterile technique assumed, though any air injected into the vial upon drawing is clearly not going to be sterile.

 

[MisterSuperGod]

i wouldn't want to find out the hard way.

This sounds like something master.on would suggest.
Didn't tag him for obvious reasons.

 

[JackSmooth]

i wouldn't want to find out the hard way.

This sounds like something master.on would suggest.
Didn't tag him for obvious reasons.

You don’t have to. I’m sure he’ll be in here shortly.

 

[MisterSuperGod]

You don’t have to. I’m sure he’ll be in here shortly.

One of the LEDs on the chip set implanted in his forehead probably lit up as soon as i typed out the first three letters of his handle.

 

[picholas]

What's the logical reason that you wouldn't use BA?

 

[Renegade22]

A few possibilities:

• Sensitivity to the compound
• Possible concerns over toxicity
• Ran out, no immediate source on hand
• Brewing a very small batch
• Using an alternative bacteriostatic agent

I just found a thread from the same Bill Roberts on the T-Nation site under “My Current Fina Formula” (Dec 2007):

Bill Roberts: The pellets and benzyl benzoate solution was sterilized by heat and also quite possibly by the benzyl benzoate (not that it is much of a bactericidal but at 100% I'd expect it is.) I have always considered Wesson to be sterile. I've never had or heard of a problem with it in more than 10 years of using that product. And as Schwarzenegger points out, there's the submicron filter for the final guarantee as well.

If one just isn't comfortable psychologically not having the benzyl alcohol (it really isn't needed) then it would be OK to filter it and then add whatever small percentage of benzyl alcohol. Doing it in that order will avoid the fine-point problem of the BA having some tendency to dissolve methylcellulose and used after filtering, won't increase the amount of that in the final product whereas beforehand I do think it solubilizes a little of it.

Schwarzenegger: Hm... steroids without benzyl alcohol. There's definitely a psychological comfort factor having that in there. I can't imagine it would be a good idea to take it out, especially if you plan on letting it sit around for a while and use large vials (20+ml). Any info I could read up on regarding this? I wouldn't mind cutting it out, but considering pharmaceutical companies do it, there's probably a reason. I just use it at 1% anyway.

Bill Roberts: I don't have any info on it. I've used it very many times without, as well as many times with. If having any confidence issues lacking it then certainly adding in 1% as a last step would be a completely reasonable thing to do. Even without the benzyl alcohol, it's not a good environment for bacteria. There's no carbohydrates or protein for them as nutrients, nor is there any water. Of course, if bacteria are put in there from some bad handling those lacks probably won't kill them—but then again, 1% benzyl alcohol is really not bactericidal either, but bacteriostatic. So actually I think there is little difference but the psychological. However that's not a small thing: fearing that an injection might cause infection takes up a lot of mental energy whereas confidence is always a good thing.
​

 

[BigNattyDaddy]

Arnold brewed his own gear?

 

[picholas]

A few possibilities:

• Sensitivity to the compound
• Possible concerns over toxicity
• Ran out, no immediate source on hand
• Brewing a very small batch
• Using an alternative bacteriostatic agent

I just found a thread from the same Bill Roberts on the T-Nation site under “My Current Fina Formula” (Dec 2007):

Bill Roberts: The pellets and benzyl benzoate solution was sterilized by heat and also quite possibly by the benzyl benzoate (not that it is much of a bactericidal but at 100% I'd expect it is.) I have always considered Wesson to be sterile. I've never had or heard of a problem with it in more than 10 years of using that product. And as Schwarzenegger points out, there's the submicron filter for the final guarantee as well.

If one just isn't comfortable psychologically not having the benzyl alcohol (it really isn't needed) then it would be OK to filter it and then add whatever small percentage of benzyl alcohol. Doing it in that order will avoid the fine-point problem of the BA having some tendency to dissolve methylcellulose and used after filtering, won't increase the amount of that in the final product whereas beforehand I do think it solubilizes a little of it.

Schwarzenegger: Hm... steroids without benzyl alcohol. There's definitely a psychological comfort factor having that in there. I can't imagine it would be a good idea to take it out, especially if you plan on letting it sit around for a while and use large vials (20+ml). Any info I could read up on regarding this? I wouldn't mind cutting it out, but considering pharmaceutical companies do it, there's probably a reason. I just use it at 1% anyway.

Bill Roberts: I don't have any info on it. I've used it very many times without, as well as many times with. If having any confidence issues lacking it then certainly adding in 1% as a last step would be a completely reasonable thing to do. Even without the benzyl alcohol, it's not a good environment for bacteria. There's no carbohydrates or protein for them as nutrients, nor is there any water. Of course, if bacteria are put in there from some bad handling those lacks probably won't kill them—but then again, 1% benzyl alcohol is really not bactericidal either, but bacteriostatic. So actually I think there is little difference but the psychological. However that's not a small thing: fearing that an injection might cause infection takes up a lot of mental energy whereas confidence is always a good thing.
​

Besides being an 11 year old article and referring to brewing tren pellets.

"but considering pharmaceutical companies do it, there's probably a reason."

Is all you really needed to read. What alternative agent that is less toxic did you have in mind?

Brewing a small batch that you intend to use in 3-5 days time is the only somewhat logical reason to forgo BA.

BB is not a bacteriostatic agent.

 

[ickyrica]

Don't be retarded. 1%BA is a pharmaceutical standard for a reason.

 

[Logan44551]

If I'm not mistaken the alibuhran test e was tested and didn't have any in it. I think the test is in the tp thread

 

[MisterSuperGod]

If I'm not mistaken the alibuhran test e was tested and didn't have any in it. I think the test is in the tp thread

Those also come in sealed, one time use amps.

 

[Monstar]

Don't be retarded. 1%BA is a pharmaceutical standard for a reason.

Absolutely. If they could safely remove complexity and costs...don't people think they'd have done that already.

 

[Renegade22]

@picholas, totally agree on the logic of small batches (or alternative bacteriostat)—though the 11-year old posts on fina weren't what gave rise to my question in this thread.

The parent article is hosted right here on MESO-Rx, was written in 2014, and refers to home brewing test enanthate et al:

From “The Guide to Making Your Own Injectable Anabolic Steroids,” by Bill Roberts:

If not using any benzyl alcohol—and I prefer to use none—then after the 19 mL total of powder and solubility enhancer in our example, we have 31 mL left to make up our total volume of 50 mL ...

If you prefer using benzyl alcohol to have a bacteriostatic agent, I recommend using it at only 2% of the final total volume, and no more than 5%. In this example, if we used benzyl alcohol, we’d use 1 mL (2% of 50 mL) and we’d then need only 30 mL of carrier oil.

Reddit has a wiki page on alternative antimicrobial agents, as well as a discussion thread on alternative sterilization techniques—but Bill Robert's article here on MESO makes no such suggestions.

The article hosted here is recent, a how-to, and intended for first-time brewers, so I thought the question worth posing for clarification—both from a harm reduction perspective, and from curiosity on the thought process that gave rise to the referenced protocol.

 

[picholas]

@picholas, totally agree on the logic of small batches (or alternative bacteriostat)—though the 11-year old posts on fina weren't what gave rise to my question in this thread.

The parent article is hosted right here on MESO-Rx, was written in 2014, and refers to home brewing test enanthate et al:

From “The Guide to Making Your Own Injectable Anabolic Steroids,” by Bill Roberts:


​

Reddit has a wiki page on alternative antimicrobial agents, as well as a discussion thread on alternative sterilization techniques—but Bill Robert's article here on MESO makes no such suggestions.

The article hosted here is recent, a how-to, and intended for first-time brewers, so I thought the question worth posing for clarification—both from a harm reduction perspective, and from curiosity on the thought process that gave rise to the referenced protocol.

Again, after reading your list of alternatives, what do you think is better/safer... I'll give you a hint... they aren't. The listed ones have issues with high temperatures (not good) and ph. Also more toxic.

Pharmaceutical companies use BA over all these for a reason.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[master.on]

In MESO-Rx article “The Guide to Making Your Own Injectable Anabolic Steroids,” staff member Bill Roberts states:

“ If not using any benzyl alcohol—and I prefer to use none—then after the 19 mL total of powder and solubility enhancer in our example, we have 31 mL left to make up our total volume of 50 mL ... ”
​

• If no alternative bacteriostat is added to the solution, under practical conditions, how long would a vial remain likely remain viable before it becomes a hazard?*
  
  * Sterile technique assumed, though any air injected into the vial upon drawing is clearly not going to be sterile.

BA doesn't kill bacteria
it merely prevents existing bacteria from multiplying.
Sterile filtration is still needed.

If you inject it all right away, no need for BA
now, who knows how long it will last without BA. I'd say a week or two.

It's similar to cooking food and eating it right away, no need for preservatives.

I have brewed gear with olive oil and no BA
but to be safe:

Inject it all within a week
brew multiple compounds together if needed.

Put the vial in the fridge to slow any eventual bacterial growth
(but not freeze it)

For olive oil you may wish to buy the tiniest bottles you can find, so oil doesn't oxidize much.

i wouldn't want to find out the hard way.

This sounds like something master.on would suggest.
Didn't tag him for obvious reasons.

Too late "God".

You don’t have to. I’m sure he’ll be in here shortly.

Don't be retarded. 1%BA is a pharmaceutical standard for a reason.

Pharma stuff has to pass microbiological quality control tests.
I don't have the Cfu regs on top of my head,
but allowable bacterial growth after 2 years is very small.
Not much bacteria will grow over one week or less, especially if the vial is placed in the fridge.

 

[JackSmooth]

BA doesn't kill bacteria
it merely prevents existing bacteria from multiplying.
Sterile filtration is still needed.

If you inject it all right away, no need for BA
now, who knows how long it will last without BA. I'd say a week or two.

It's similar to cooking food and eating it right away, no need for preservatives.

I have brewed gear with olive oil and no BA
but to be safe:

Inject it all within a week
brew multiple compounds together if needed.

Put the vial in the fridge to slow any eventual bacterial growth
(but not freeze it)

For olive oil you may wish to buy the tiniest bottles you can find, so oil doesn't oxidize much.




Too late "God".

Pharma stuff has to pass microbiological quality control tests.
I don't have the Cfu regs on top of my head,
but allowable bacterial growth after 2 years is very small.
Not much bacteria will grow over one week or less, especially if the vial is placed in the fridge.

@MisterSuperGod called it

 

[Robfromga]

The resident flat earther chimes in.....

I'll take all the gear with BA. Thank you .

 

[picholas]

The resident flat earther chimes in.....

I'll take all the gear with BA. Thank you .

He's actually quite helpful.... if you just do the opposite of what he suggest, pretty surefire method of making the right choice.

 

[Robfromga]

He's actually quite helpful.... if you just do the opposite of what he suggest, pretty surefire method of making the right choice.

That's a genius way to look at it. Do everything the opposite!!!

 

[Renegade22]

@picholas, relating to the Reddit list of alternative bacteriostats, for the very same reasons you mentioned I wouldn't use anything other than tried-and-true BA.

My question pertains to MESO-Rx staff member Bill Robert's 2014 how-to homebrew article hosted right here on the site. I thought someone might know him personally—or he even might chime in himself on why he prefers to forego the BA, and how he ensures no further downstream complications, especially as the article is intended for first-time brewers.

As the MESO-Rx article hosted here is recent, a how-to, and intended for first-time brewers, I thought the question worth posing for clarification, both from a harm reduction perspective, and from curiosity on the thought process that gave rise to the referenced protocol.