Bill Roberts Homebrew – No Benzyl Alcohol?

[master.on]

@picholas, relating to the Reddit list of alternative bacteriostats, for the very same reasons you mentioned I wouldn't use anything other than tried-and-true BA.

My question pertains to MESO-Rx staff member Bill Robert's 2014 how-to homebrew article hosted right here on the site. I thought someone might know him personally—or he even might chime in himself on why he prefers to forego the BA, and how he ensures no further downstream complications, especially as the article is intended for first-time brewers.

You can try adding some ethyl alcohol as preservative, as it is less toxic than BA
it has already been done
GenXXL - AXIO - Syntrop - Biogen and their offspring | JuicedMuscle.com

but you will need at least 95% pure ethyl alcohol, not just everclear as it has 30% water. and water doesn't mix with oil.
You may even need water-free absolute alcohol.

You can first try mixing 99% oil and 1% alcohol to see if it holds fine, without wasting gear.

Nobody really knows if/how long 1% alcohol will preserve gear (albeit oil doesn't feed microbes as well as sugars or even proteins do),
so all alcohol preserved gear must be injected within 1 month (preferably 1 or 2 weeks), to be on the safe side.

Arnold brewed his own gear?

Seems to be an Arnold copycat.

 

[picholas]

You can try adding some ethyl alcohol as preservative, as it is less toxic than BA
it has already been done
GenXXL - AXIO - Syntrop - Biogen and their offspring | JuicedMuscle.com

but you will need at least 95% pure ethyl alcohol, not just everclear as it has 30% water. and water doesn't mix with oil.
You may even need water-free absolute alcohol.

You can first try mixing 99% oil and 1% alcohol to see if it holds fine, without wasting gear.

Nobody really knows if/how long 1% alcohol will preserve gear (albeit oil doesn't feed microbes as well as sugars or even proteins do),
so all alcohol preserved gear must be injected within 1 month (preferably 1 or 2 weeks), to be on the safe side.




Seems to be an Arnold copycat.

Dude. NO!

You can not use ethyl alcohol as a replacement for benzyl alcohol. One works as a solvent, the other as a bactierostatic agent.

Holy shit.

Do you even read the nonsense you post, they weren't even talking about replacing BA -- but rather replacing BB

When this whole Axio project started the leader Brian Weinstein insisted on following the instructions of his Israeli chemist ( some know as Dr. S. or Karlo). This chemist introduced his formula where instead of Benzyl Benzoate (BB) high grade Ethanol was used in the recipe as a solvent. This is why Axio always smelled like rocket fuel by the way. The first batches of Axio were excellent and contained the high grade ethanol. These formulas were developed for optimum results of the product, any bio assay test will confirm it.

100% Ethanol is a very explosive material, it was not available on the local Israelian market and had to be imported just like the first batch. This time the airport security did not allow it on the plane and they could not import it. This is the reason why Ethanol alcohol was replaced by Isopropyl alcohol in the formula. Nothing new for the chemists, Retabolil by Ghedeon Richter is using 20 percent Isopropyl alcohol , the whole BM line (India) is using 20 percent Isopropyl alcohol too. In Axio isopropyl alchohol was used at lower levels.

Apparently this Isopropyl batch made the gear very painful. BM (India) is having exactly the same problems. At first they thought it was an filters and sterility issue, but the tests showed the oil was sterile. Only after the chemists insisted on using BB instead of all the alcohols, the gear came back to normal. Brian never listened to these facts though. Syntrop was using Ethanol as well. I see it as one and the same problem they faced. Both know same chemists in Israel. Some labs still use ethanol but changed the declaration on the label to Benzyl Benzoate because the use of alcohols in injectable steroids is unknown to some end-users and therefore unwanted. To be sure if ethanol is used you can smell the products, ethanol has a typical sweet taste which is of course changes from product to product.​

 

[master.on]

Did you even read your post?

This chemist introduced his formula where instead of Benzyl Benzoate (BB) high grade Ethanol was used in the recipe as a solvent. This is why Axio always smelled like rocket fuel by the way. The first batches of Axio were excellent and contained the high grade ethanol. These formulas were developed for optimum results of the product, any bio assay test will confirm it.

So they replaced ethyl alcohol with isopropyl
not because isoproply is any better (it isn't) but because they couldn't find high grade ethyl alcohol.

And don't change subjects we ain't talking about replacing BB with Ethyl Alcohol (EA)
we're talking about replacing BA with (EA)
Lots of big pharma meds contain EA instead of BA and they work fine.

 

[picholas]

@master.on

Your reading comprehension sucks. I'll leave more out this time. Try reading again.

When this whole Axio project started the leader Brian Weinstein insisted on following the instructions of his Israeli chemist ( some know as Dr. S. or Karlo). This chemist introduced his formula where instead of Benzyl Benzoate (BB) high grade Ethanol was used in the recipe as a solvent. This is why Axio always smelled like rocket fuel by the way. The first batches of Axio were excellent and contained the high grade ethanol. These formulas were developed for optimum results of the product, any bio assay test will confirm it.
​

THE ARTICLE YOU POSTED IS TALKING ABOUT REPLACING BB WITH ETHANOL NOT BA

No pharmaceutical company replaces BA with ethanol or isopropyl alcohol. It isn't done.

Go reboot.

​

 

[master.on]

But they used no BA whatsoever, yet the product was well preserved
so that means that EA works as a preservative
(lesser EA amounts are needed as preservative, than for solvent/BB replacement).

 

[picholas]

@JackSmooth
@MisterSuperGod
@Robfromga

Read from when the robot chimes in with his link to here. Absolutely ridiculous LOL

But they used no BA whatsoever, yet the product was well preserved
so that means that EA works as a preservative
(lesser EA amounts are needed as preservative, than for solvent/BB replacement).

Again, NO!

A simple google search shows you they STILL use BA, they were just replacing BB.

Primoplex 100 AxioLabs

Only ampules intended for one time use have been made by pharmaceutical companies without BA.

Stop posting nonsense when you have NO idea what you are talking about. I literally just had to prove you wrong 3 times in a row about the same subject matter.

Your misinformation does nothing for harm reduction, quite the opposite.

 

[master.on]

You just mentioned BA-less amps
So this proves my point that BA-less formulations can be used, if they are used quick enough.

 

[picholas]

@master.on

If I'm not mistaken the alibuhran test e was tested and didn't have any in it. I think the test is in the tp thread

Those also come in sealed, one time use amps.

Brewing a small batch that you intend to use in 3-5 days time is the only somewhat logical reason to forgo BA.

BB is not a bacteriostatic agent.

Try reading the thread in it's entirety.
From beginning to end.
Slowly, so it all computes.

And again, you are so all over the place. Your original point was to replace BA with ethanol or isopropyl alcohol. That isn't done. It was replacing BB.

Your new "point" was established quite early on in this thread.

 

[Robfromga]

@JackSmooth
@MisterSuperGod
@Robfromga

Read from when the robot chimes in with his link to here. Absolutely ridiculous LOL



Again, NO!

A simple google search shows you they STILL use BA, they were just replacing BB.

Primoplex 100 AxioLabs

Only ampules intended for one time use have been made by pharmaceutical companies without BA.

Stop posting nonsense when you have NO idea what you are talking about. I literally just had to prove you wrong 3 times in a row about the same subject matter.

Your misinformation does nothing for harm reduction, quite the opposite.

This is why @MisterSuperGod says to do the exact opposite of everything mastermoron says . Lord!!!

 

[MisterSuperGod]

This is why @MisterSuperGod says to do the exact opposite of everything mastermoron says . Lord!!!

For the record, someone else came up with that gem of an idea, but i wholeheartedly agree with whomever that was.

Edit: It was @picholas

 

[master.on]

I never advocated to BLINDLY skipping BA

I said that it might be done, if gear is used up quickly so bacteria doesn't have much time to grow.
Although bacteria doesn't feed much on oil.
It might be done, but it's not for newbies or for morons.

 

[picholas]

And don't change subjects we ain't talking about replacing BB with Ethyl Alcohol (EA)
we're talking about replacing BA with (EA)
Lots of big pharma meds contain EA instead of BA and they work fine.

No you're a spastic clown.

No big pharma uses EA or IA instead of BA. Which is what YOU were advocating. No one else.

But they used no BA whatsoever, yet the product was well preserved
so that means that EA works as a preservative
(lesser EA amounts are needed as preservative, than for solvent/BB replacement).

Then I posted the actual ingredients showing it does in fact use BA still.

The one mentioned pharmaceutical company uses EA instead of BB and when they attempted to use IA instead it caused horrible PIP.

You need a major hardware upgrade, seems you can't even keep track of your initial, albeit wrong, point.

Please just stop, spouting this shit like you know what you are talking about is going to potentially harm a new brewer.

 

[master.on]

Here we go again

BA? EA?
At the end the answer is neither.
None of the above can be blindly trusted without a microbiological test.

 

[Renegade22]

Harm reduction was the initial rationale to starting this thread—followed by curiosity as to why. The referenced article, “The Guide to Making Your Own Injectable Anabolic Steroids”—is authored by MESO-Rx staff member Bill Roberts, written for first-time brewers, and hosted right here on the site—while clearly stating that the author himself prefers to forego the use of benzyl alcohol.

I thought someone might know the author personally and be able to elucidate his reasoning behind it—or he even might chime in himself on why he prefers to forego the BA and how he ensures no further downstream complications—especially as the article is intended for those who are entirely new to the process.

 

[master.on]

Harm reduction was the initial rationale to starting this thread—followed by curiosity as to why. The referenced article, “The Guide to Making Your Own Injectable Anabolic Steroids”—is authored by MESO-Rx staff member Bill Roberts, written for first-time brewers, and hosted right here on the site—while clearly stating that the author himself prefers to forego the use of benzyl alcohol.

I thought someone might know the author personally and be able to elucidate his reasoning behind it—or he even might chime in himself on why he prefers to forego the BA and how he ensures no further downstream complications—especially as the article is intended for those who are entirely new to the process.

Several important things to consider:

1 BA doesn't kill bacteria

2 BA is a bacteriostatic which temporarily prevents bacteria from multiplying. Once injected in the human body, any existing bacteria will multiply again.

3 BA is no substitute for sterile filtration (nothing is)

4 bacteria doesn't usually grow in oil formulations

5 BA-less formulations have been tried already

6 bacteria takes time to grow/multiply
although bacteria doesn't seem to grow in oil, to be on the safe side, BA-less formulations should be used up quickly

7 He advises 2-5% BA
which is too much
0.95% is fine.

8 BA doesn't increase solubility much, if at all
BB does.

 

[Renegade22]

Actually, it looks like @master.on discussed this very topic in August 2017. Axio pharmaceutical formulations used absolute ethanol in place of benzyl alcohol per advice from their professional chemist.

It does seem ethyl alcohol might have its place in brewing water-based test-no ester and tren-no ester suspensions, increasing solubility more so than benzyl alcohol while still acting as an effective bacteriostatic.

Why a real chemist advised high-grade ethyl alcohol instead of BA?
​

I've used it in my last couple of batches of TnE/TrnE suspension and found it an effective solute with no add'l pip.