Bioidentical Hormone Replacement

[Dr JIM]

He said he wants to do blood work, because he thinks it's almost impossible for me to have a 800 level at age 48. He's even seen my previous lab work and still disagreed with it. I trust the Dr. I cycle with him on weekly basis, and we've been discussing it. I understand it's more expensive, but even after reading and trying educate myself on steroids, I'm basically scared shitless. I'm just getting confused on all the different options.. HCG-PCT, Etc, and I don't know a single person that's using steroids to help me one on one. My original plan was to do 400 Test- 400 EQ-, but don't understand what to order for HCG and PCT. It seems like every article, video says something different. If I had someone make me grocery list It'd be much easier for me.

While I agree with @roger Rabits comments on "bioidenticals" a $240.00 price tags is very reasonable as a one time all inclusive fee. The latter would include the cost of injections, labs, AND periodic follow-up visits.

Needless to say, from a risk adverse perspective a medically managed approach to TRT is unequivocally preferred over "self therapy", since the latter Is often fraught with poorly understood and mismanaged side effects, especially in novices.

And examples of the latter are spewed throughout Meso!

JIIM

 

[Roger rabbit]

While I agree with @roger Rabits comments on "bioidenticals" a $240.00 price tags is very reasonable as a one time all inclusive fee. The latter would include the cost of injections, labs, AND periodic follow-up visits.

Needless to say, from a risk adverse perspective a medically managed approach to TRT is unequivocally preferred over "self therapy", since the latter Is often fraught with poorly understood and mismanaged side effects, especially in novices.

And examples of the latter are spewed throughout Meso!

JIIM

Agree with you on all aspects.

I used trt from a doctor for many years. I then just branched out and continued doing the exact same protocol and testing times as she did. Every time I had a lab report I had her explain everything to me so I could understand.

I had to discontinue because my insurance wouldn't cover so everything was out of pocket. The labs, the needles everything just adds up too fast.

The 240$ for the product adds up to over 600$ for that 12 week period.

But, you are correct about misleading vomit being spewed everywhere.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

Agree with you on all aspects.

I used trt from a doctor for many years. I then just branched out and continued doing the exact same protocol and testing times as she did. Every time I had a lab report I had her explain everything to me so I could understand.

I had to discontinue because my insurance wouldn't cover so everything was out of pocket. The labs, the needles everything just adds up too fast.

The 240$ for the product adds up to over 600$ for that 12 week period.

But, you are correct about misleading vomit being spewed everywhere.

I'm w/o insurance now, at a startup, so there's that.

Also, my TRT doc just had a cursory understanding of the TRT thing - and the standard approach of creating numerous office visits. It just got to be too much BS, and also time to drive to his place.

And even more BS to deal with the compounding pharmacies and their insane practices. After a while you realize that it's not about medicine, it's about fleecing you and wasting your time.

Doctors are useless in this field, as a general statement. I don't get any value add from dealing with them, it's always about educating them and fixing their misinformed ways. They should pay me.

 

[Dr JIM]

While the fees charged for TRT varies considerably across the board, many disregard the overhead required to run a successful and fiscially stable medical practice,

And the overhead for medical practice include many intangibles such as, custodial services, medical supplies (from tongue depressors to disposable syringes, needles, cleaning solvents) technological equipment (cardiac monitors to ultrasound equipment) durable goods (speculums, exam tables, otoscopes, ophthalmoscopes,
to name a few.

The list of more tangibles include nurses, secretarial staff,
lease payments, various “medical facility” fees levied on behalf of municipalities, and my fav property taxes.

So the cost of Testosterone, whether bio-identical, synthetic, or compounded in a pharmacy is paltry compared to the cost of administering it.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

While the fees charged for TRT varies considerably across the board, many disregard the overhead required to run a successful and fiscially stable medical practice,

And the overhead for medical practice include many intangibles such as, custodial services, medical supplies (from tongue depressors to disposable syringes, needles, cleaning solvents) technological equipment (cardiac monitors to ultrasound equipment) durable goods (speculums, exam tables, otoscopes, ophthalmoscopes,
to name a few.

The list of more tangibles include nurses, secretarial staff,
lease payments, various “medical facility” fees levied on behalf of municipalities, and my fav property taxes.

So the cost of Testosterone, whether bio-identical, synthetic, or compounded in a pharmacy is paltry compared to the cost of administering it.

Absolutely agree.

However, quarterly blood work, minor surgery (pellets), selling dubious supps (DHEA and something against cortisol), and ridiculous prescriptions that require incessant interaction with all parties involved - that isn't best medical practices, that's a racket.

 

[Ouch1234]

A little update: First I want to thank the ones here that are supportive. I'm just going to tell it how is. Went in to have blood work this morning. Filled out a 10 page of questions, etc. Nurse then sucked the blood out of me. Few minutes later she came back and got me and took me into a conference room. The dr. came in and we talked for 20 minutes about my life and what my goals were. Next thing I knew, the nurse came back and got me, took me back to a room and shot 250mg of TRT in my butt. I was a bit shocked that he gave me a shot prior to blood work results, but he said he'd adjust the dosage when the blood work results came back. My one time co-pay was $30 and the injection was $20.00. from now on it'll be $20.00 per week. No co-pays until I need another blood test. This is just what happened, not wanting to start a debate. I'll update when the blood results get posted on my Fusion.

 

[Roger rabbit]

A little update: First I want to thank the ones here that are supportive. I'm just going to tell it how is. Went in to have blood work this morning. Filled out a 10 page of questions, etc. Nurse then sucked the blood out of me. Few minutes later she came back and got me and took me into a conference room. The dr. came in and we talked for 20 minutes about my life and what my goals were. Next thing I knew, the nurse came back and got me, took me back to a room and shot 250mg of TRT in my butt. I was a bit shocked that he gave me a shot prior to blood work results, but he said he'd adjust the dosage when the blood work results came back. My one time co-pay was $30 and the injection was $20.00. from now on it'll be $20.00 per week. No co-pays until I need another blood test. This is just what happened, not wanting to start a debate. I'll update when the blood results get posted on my Fusion.

If your insurance is paying for then keep going bro. Better to be under that supervision bro.

Keep us updated man.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

A little update: First I want to thank the ones here that are supportive. I'm just going to tell it how is. Went in to have blood work this morning. Filled out a 10 page of questions, etc. Nurse then sucked the blood out of me. Few minutes later she came back and got me and took me into a conference room. The dr. came in and we talked for 20 minutes about my life and what my goals were. Next thing I knew, the nurse came back and got me, took me back to a room and shot 250mg of TRT in my butt. I was a bit shocked that he gave me a shot prior to blood work results, but he said he'd adjust the dosage when the blood work results came back. My one time co-pay was $30 and the injection was $20.00. from now on it'll be $20.00 per week. No co-pays until I need another blood test. This is just what happened, not wanting to start a debate. I'll update when the blood results get posted on my Fusion.

You got sucked by the nurse? Nice clinic!

250mg of test Cyp - ha ha - he's not erring on the low side. Actually, I find that commendable, to not dick around and wait for the results, and then schedule another visit - he could have played that game.

Good start. And make sure you get a copy of the blood work.

Edit : hmmmmm, sounds like he's planning on administering all the shots in his clinic.... and once per week? If so, it's a scam in any case.

 

[Throwback]

If you showed him 800 natty...then he pulled his own bloods but gave you a shot before he got the results...
This guy is an fucking idiot.
He doesnt give 2 shits about your long term health.
In a matter of months he is gonna have your hormones all fucked up.
Wait and see.....
Better yet run and find a good trt dr that understands proper protocols.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

If you showed him 800 natty...then he pulled his own bloods but gave you a shot before he got the results...
This guy is an fucking idiot.
He doesnt give 2 shits about your long term health.
In a matter of months he is gonna have your hormones all fucked up.
Wait and see.....
Better yet run and find a good trt dr that understands proper protocols.

That's right, OP did say something about 800 natty, didn't he? Forgot about that. That does make the whole thing smell like a pure revenue scheme. I would not be on TRT if I had 800 under my own engine.

OTOH - if you're hellbent on cycling, and want official paperwork, this doc is GTG!

 

[5percentbrah]

Bio-identical is just a scam excuse for why the doc won’t write a script you can fill at a normal pharmacy. He has to compound it for you at 3x the cost.

/thread

 

[Dr JIM]

Bio-identical is just a scam excuse for why the doc won’t write a script you can fill at a normal pharmacy. He has to compound it for you at 3x the cost.

/thread

Agreed but as I mentioned earlier at $250 for a 12 course
that’s cheap IF initial and follow up labs are included.

However @Throwback concerns are legitimate IF the doc is pinning your arse in the absence of repeat labs, esp with a robust TT of 800ng/dL.

Finally @Ouch1234 there is one other
point worth mentioning, and that is whether the invlolved compounding pharmacy has been formally approved to compound, as in mix, PARENTERAL drugs by the appropriate regulatory agencies in your state!

That’s bc nasty infections have occurred with some Pharma products where appropriate procedures were not complied with.

So be careful what ya wish for as you just might get it in addition to a few unwanted complications.

 

[Roger rabbit]

The doctor knows that once he gives him that shot, op will feel amazing and will want to continue with getting shots.

The doctor will just control his level with exogenous test and the end will result in him staying right at 800.

The only difference will be he is now paying money to be there under doctor supervision.


Makes me wonder though, if this doctor already gave him the shot and is confident all other lab work not done by him was inaccurate...will he just fake a lab work result? As in possibly ensure his results come back by whatever means he uses? Far stretch.. possibly but the doctor is making money off insurance so like the tv show... American greed... anything is possible

 

[Ouch1234]

I'm not disagreeing with any of you guys about the approach I'm taking. My wording may make it sound like this Dr. is a quack, but he'll do more blood work in 6 weeks, and then again 90 days after the six weeks. I questioned him about some of the concerns you guys have brought up, and I feel pretty confident he'll keep me monitored. I just feel safer under the care of Dr. for my first round of steroids, and after this I'll venture out on my own. I just can't imagine everyone of you were experts when you first started steroids and didn't have some fear. The problem with forums is that you ask one question and you get 20 different answers. I think a few extra dollars spent now will benefit me later.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

The doctor knows that once he gives him that shot, op will feel amazing and will want to continue with getting shots.

The doctor will just control his level with exogenous test and the end will result in him staying right at 800.

The only difference will be he is now paying money to be there under doctor supervision.


Makes me wonder though, if this doctor already gave him the shot and is confident all other lab work not done by him was inaccurate...will he just fake a lab work result? As in possibly ensure his results come back by whatever means he uses? Far stretch.. possibly but the doctor is making money off insurance so like the tv show... American greed... anything is possible

I think the doc values his medical license and his savings accounts more than that - I think you're overly cynical/paranoid. I do believe he's setting OP up for endless office visits in order to milk the system as best he can.

I've looked at other TRT/anti-aging places and found the same sleazy approach - i.e. only in office administration of shots (and only once per week, or even once every two weeks!), in office administration of AIs, dubious supps (e.g. DHEA, and some herbs to combat adrenal "fatigue" and cortisol), and peculiar approaches like not prescribing HCG no matter what. To me those are all red flags.

 

[JohnnyD]

I'm not disagreeing with any of you guys about the approach I'm taking. My wording may make it sound like this Dr. is a quack, but he'll do more blood work in 6 weeks, and then again 90 days after the six weeks. I questioned him about some of the concerns you guys have brought up, and I feel pretty confident he'll keep me monitored. I just feel safer under the care of Dr. for my first round of steroids, and after this I'll venture out on my own. I just can't imagine everyone of you were experts when you first started steroids and didn't have some fear. The problem with forums is that you ask one question and you get 20 different answers. I think a few extra dollars spent now will benefit me later.

Just out of curiosity, you say this is only a first round of steroids? What is your long term plan? Go off trt after 12 weeks and pct? Then what? If you are pushing 50 this is a rough way to go. Not saying impossible, but it's hard at that age, just saying. Also since you are going to do this anyway, find a good dr, not someone who administers the drugs first, then checks bloods later. To me, that's a big red flag.

 

[Roger rabbit]

I think the doc values his medical license and his savings accounts more than that - I think you're overly cynical/paranoid. I do believe he's setting OP up for endless office visits in order to milk the system as best he can.

I've looked at other TRT/anti-aging places and found the same sleazy approach - i.e. only in office administration of shots (and only once per week, or even once every two weeks!), in office administration of AIs, dubious supps (e.g. DHEA, and some herbs to combat adrenal "fatigue" and cortisol), and peculiar approaches like not prescribing HCG no matter what. To me those are all red flags.

We will know when he gets blood work back[emoji51]

Would seem suspect to me if his other doctors reported 800 as test base and this doctor came back with a 150 test base.

But the conspiracy was more of fun thought than a serious thought. In reality though.... many dotors get busted for dubious practices every year.

 

[Gbro]

I hope it works out for op.

 

[Ouch1234]

Testosterone,Free and Total
LabCorp
Received on: Dec 22, 2017
Test Component
Your result
Standard range
Result comments
Testosterone, Serum (ng/dL)
462
264-916


Free Testosterone(Direct) (pg/mL)
6.9
6.8-21.5

 

[Ouch1234]

Testosterone,Free and Total
LabCorp
Received on: Dec 22, 2017
Test Component
Your result
Standard range
Result comments
Testosterone, Serum (ng/dL)
462
264-916


Free Testosterone(Direct) (pg/mL)
6.9
6.8-21.5

The Dr. said he's more concern about the 6.9 than the 462. He wants to get it up around 20