Blood Pressure and Plaque In The Arteries

[egruberman]

So would you say in pharmaceutical self treatment of high LDL, ezetimibe & BA would be a reasonable initial strategy?

My first attempt at LLT after exhausting all the lifestyle and supplement options was to try ezetimibe mono-therapy. It was a marginal improvement. I ran it for a year. At some point, I was hanging out with a friend. He was obese, pre-diabetic, had a terrible diet, and never exercised. He showed me his lipid panel on 20mg of Rosuvastatin and I was shocked at how much better it was than mine.

I would've considered bemepdoic acid at the time if it had been available. It's worth noting that BA is relatively new to the market. The data on outcomes is well established. The clinical trials also show very few adverse side effects. However, it's not been widely used for very long.

That's all to say that yes, I'd consider that a reasonable approach with the caveat that I also believe that the downsides of statins are overstated and even so, the result of being prescribed in a manner which defies reason.

 

[Liter O' Test]

my diastolic is always in the 60s? is that good

i switched to telmisartan from 80mg valsartan

still seems like 80mg telemisartan doesnt compare to the 80mg valsartan despite on paper 40mg telemisartan = 80mg valsartan

 

[Ghoul]

My first attempt at LLT after exhausting all the lifestyle and supplement options was to try ezetimibe mono-therapy. It was a marginal improvement. I ran it for a year. At some point, I was hanging out with a friend. He was obese, pre-diabetic, had a terrible diet, and never exercised. He showed me his lipid panel on 20mg of Rosuvastatin and I was shocked at how much better it was than mine.

I would've considered bemepdoic acid at the time if it had been available. It's worth noting that BA is relatively new to the market. The data on outcomes is well established. The clinical trials also show very few adverse side effects. However, it's not been widely used for very long.

That's all to say that yes, I'd consider that a reasonable approach with the caveat that I also believe that the downsides of statins are overstated and even so, the result of being prescribed in a manner which defies reason.

I really don't want a statin, but my doc is insisting, and in order to get coverage for the more advanced treatments like BA or Repatha, it'll take a few months of "step therapy" in which I complain about statin sides before I can move on,

I have familial hyperlipidemia, so there's a genetic component to deal with. Statins induced serious muscle pain when I last tried one years ago.

So I was thinking of accepting the 2 different statin prescriptions required to qualify for the advanced meds, but actually taking Ez and/or BA in order to improve numbers, while waiting out the 4 months of required theater.

 

[HeatherSwanson]

Years ago a buddies mother had plugged up arteries and couldn't get the bypass or stent surgery for whatever reason. She saw a natty path and they administered sodium tetraboride. It was several years later we were at Xmas dinner and she was explaining that there was a chronic boron deficiency in all developed countries. The salts of boron regulate cholesterol and SHBG and that it helped her body metabolize the plaques. The Dr's were lost for words with near clear arteries.

She noted that her entire life, even with regular cleanings, plaque would build up in her mouth regardless of diet. With the administration of the boran salt the plaque in her mouth subsided overnight... And that lovely newphie lady is still with us today, I saw her this summer past at 77 years of age.

In the 60's there was a guy, I can't remember is he was british or Aussie or a combo, but he published a series of articles that claimed Sodium Tetraboride aka Borax had some pretty potent effects on the human body. Regulating cholesterol and SHBG was one of those claims.

The idea is that boron isn't that bioavailable and its also stripped from the soil with over production and modern fertilizer. So you need salts of boron to take it up. I think it was called the boron conspiracy or smething like that... If you want me to reach out to her I can, might be easier just to get an AI to 5000 word summary it for you though.

 

[Ghoul]

Years ago a buddies mother had plugged up arteries and couldn't get the bypass or stent surgery for whatever reason. She saw a natty path and they administered sodium tetraboride. It was several years later we were at Xmas dinner and she was explaining that there was a chronic boron deficiency in all developed countries. The salts of boron regulate cholesterol and SHBG and that it helped her body metabolize the plaques. The Dr's were lost for words with near clear arteries.

She noted that her entire life, even with regular cleanings, plaque would build up in her mouth regardless of diet. With the administration of the boran salt the plaque in her mouth subsided overnight... And that lovely newphie lady is still with us today, I saw her this summer past at 77 years of age.

In the 60's there was a guy, I can't remember is he was british or Aussie or a combo, but he published a series of articles that claimed Sodium Tetraboride aka Borax had some pretty potent effects on the human body. Regulating cholesterol and SHBG was one of those claims.

The idea is that boron isn't that bioavailable and its also stripped from the soil with over production and modern fertilizer. So you need salts of boron to take it up. I think it was called the boron conspiracy or smething like that... If you want me to reach out to her I can, might be easier just to get an AI to 5000 word summary it for you though.

There is a lot of evidence connecting oral health to arteriosclerosis for sure. It's a source of bacterial and endotoxin contamination in the blood that, if nothing else, increases systemic inflammation which leads to faster plaque buildup in the arteries.

I used to notice rapid plaque buildup on my teeth even with disciplined brushing after every meal and frequent cleanings. After moving to a different part of the country, that stopped. I wonder if boron content in the water made the difference,

 

[HeatherSwanson]

There is a lot of evidence connecting oral health to arteriosclerosis for sure. It's a source of bacterial and endotoxin contamination in the blood that, if nothing else, increases systemic inflammation which leads to faster plaque buildup in the arteries.

I used to notice rapid plaque buildup on my teeth even with disciplined brushing after every meal and frequent cleanings. After moving to a different part of the country, that stopped. I wonder if boron content in the water made the difference,

Little old newphie lady says

"Put 1/4 teaspoon borax in your water bottle that you have on you all day and drink it by the end of the day, everyday and your friend won't need a stent or baypass"

*shrug emogi

 

[buck]

A quick search seems to show very little at most pointing towards boron and especially borax being a cause of plaque build up.
I certainly wouldn't base my nutrient intake to what 1 old lady says, who i don't even know or has shown to have a lot of knowledge on the topic.
For decades the data shows much of the soil in the US is more depleted then decades ago. How much micronutrients a person needs for optimal health is certainly something i have looked into for a long time. But the data is sparce in general.

 

[rosesmoke]

Years ago a buddies mother had plugged up arteries and couldn't get the bypass or stent surgery for whatever reason. She saw a natty path and they administered sodium tetraboride. It was several years later we were at Xmas dinner and she was explaining that there was a chronic boron deficiency in all developed countries. The salts of boron regulate cholesterol and SHBG and that it helped her body metabolize the plaques. The Dr's were lost for words with near clear arteries.

Sure, that happened.

"Put 1/4 teaspoon borax in your water bottle that you have on you all day and drink it by the end of the day, everyday and your friend won't need a stent or baypass"

Why are you holding back on us and not telling us that the true key to health is to eat tide pods?

 

[HeatherSwanson]

Sure, that happened.



Why are you holding back on us and not telling us that the true key to health is to eat tide pods?

Years ago ...

Anyway, the secret home made tide pods.
I call them, peptide pods but you have to inject them right into the Chinaman's eye

 

[Ghoul]

To be fair, Boron does seem to be an important nutrient, and there are a number of studies that correlate boron deficiency with higher levels of arteriosclerosis. These seem to come from the middle east, where perhaps getting it in the local diet is harder than elsewhere.

My multivitamin has 2mg of it, so between that and whatever I get from food, looks like I'm covered.

Brains, Bones, and Boron

Boron shows potential as a brain booster and in preventing arthritis. Learn more.

www.healthline.com

 

[egruberman]

I really don't want a statin, but my doc is insisting, and in order to get coverage for the more advanced treatments like BA or Repatha, it'll take a few months of "step therapy" in which I complain about statin sides before I can move on,

Understood.

I have familial hyperlipidemia, so there's a genetic component to deal with. Statins induced serious muscle pain when I last tried one years ago.

If you have FH, definitely get that managed. I don’t recall, have you had a CT-CAC? As for the muscle pain, which statin and dose?

So I was thinking of accepting the 2 different statin prescriptions required to qualify for the advanced meds, but actually taking Ez and/or BA in order to improve numbers, while waiting out the 4 months of required theater.

Sounds like a good plan. Ultimately, with FH, you’re going to want a PCSK9 inhibitor, regardless. Alternately, you’d be encouraged by a cardiologist to do high-intensity statin mono-therapy, and I think I’ve spilled enough “ink” here to illustrate why that’s not a good idea.

I’m curious if you experienced muscle pain with Atorvastatin and whether that would persist with Rosuvastatin at 5mg daily. Even so, do what you must to get your lipids under control. The less time “under the curve” the better.

 

[Photon]

I did this to LDL 13 and ApoB 40 with Lipitor 10 and Repatha. This is my pure speculation but I seemingly had compensatory problems.

My HDL went from 62 to 40.
My triglycerides shot THRU THE ROOF after being regularly rock bottom and subsequently my VLDL tripled.

Now that I ditched the Lipitor, my triglycerides dropped but are still higher than baseline and my LDL is now 56 and ApoB is 51.

Something happens in my body at the triglycerides level as my LDL drops too low (either that or it's the Repatha mechanism). On Lipitor 10 my HDL remained high and my triglycerides were at baseline in the 50s while my LDL dropped from 160 to 100 and my ApoB from 130 to 83. I'm struggling to decide if I am going to be better off at Lipitor 20 only vs using Repatha. This was my cardiologist initial recommendation - to double Lipitor. She only prescribed Repatha based on my insistence and her consults with their lipidologist who said there is no lower limit and said that Lower is better absolutely.

One issue with a very low trig value is that the labs need to perform a different kind of LDL calculation (direct vs calculated) than what is usually done. Some labs have a separate test for this, some labs don't even offer this test.

My trigs were in the low 20s before I hopped on a statin + psck9..I'm not sure what they are now but I wont be surprised if its nuked to oblivion...Guess we will find out during my next test. I would say that most people with a LDL or ApoB ~20 will also have a trig value..that's completely nuked..

 

[jtmarlin]

One issue with a very low trig value is that the labs need to perform a different kind of LDL calculation (direct vs calculated) than what is usually done. Some labs have a separate test for this, some labs don't even offer this test.

My trigs were in the low 20s before I hopped on a statin + psck9..I'm not sure what they are now but I wont be surprised if its nuked to oblivion...Guess we will find out during my next test. I would say that most people with a LDL or ApoB ~20 will also have a trig value..that's completely nuked..

My triglycerides went up, not down after initiating Lipitor + Repatha therapy. They went from 50 to near 200 when my LDL went to 13.

 

[Nidus]

Quick little success update from my side, had a good talk with a doctor.

Now getting prescribed and fully covered without paying a single cent for it. Only took me about 19 different doctors.

Telmisartan 40mg
Nebivol 5mg
Cialis 5mg
Nustendi (180mg Bempoic Acid/10mg Ezemtib)
Rosuvastin 5mg

 

[Ghoul]

Quick little success update from my side, had a good talk with a doctor.

Now getting prescribed and fully covered without paying a single cent for it. Only took me about 19 different doctors.

Telmisartan 40mg
Nebivol 5mg
Cialis 5mg
Nustendi (180mg Bempoic Acid/10mg Ezemtib)
Rosuvastin 5mg

Amazing what a difference a cooperative provider can make.

 

[Nidus]

Amazing what a difference a cooperative provider can make.

Yep!

I almost got Tirza as well but my Hba1c is too low. Insurance and Doctors can only prescribe it if your Hba1c is over 5.5. Mine improved in the past 6 months from nearly 6 to 4.8 so i am not eligible at all for it sadly

but at least i continue getting full coverage for Jardiance and Metformin

 

[Liter O' Test]

doc says if i dont tolerate nebivolol to switch to verapamil.

yeah lets go from like latest gen selective beta blocker to a CCB that isn't even selective for heart rate. which lowers ejection fraction and has a host of side effects

I asked her to prescribe me Ivabradine, because it selectively inhibits some sinus current.... for my sinus tachacardia... but no that makes too much sense, follow some flow chart based on medical advice to keep uncompliant 70 year old obese smokers alive.

 

[Nidus]

doc says if i dont tolerate nebivolol to switch to verapamil.

yeah lets go from like latest gen selective beta blocker to a CCB that isn't even selective for heart rate. which lowers ejection fraction and has a host of side effects

I asked her to prescribe me Ivabradine, because it selectively inhibits some sinus current.... for my sinus tachacardia... but no that makes too much sense, follow some flow chart based on medical advice to keep uncompliant 70 year old obese smokers alive.

Yeah, i know that feeling. Had the same. Shit, "Oh you got 130/70, thats perfect!"

Only one Doc was actually open to listen me out and let me explain some studies i came across and articles

 

[Photon]

Yep!

I almost got Tirza as well but my Hba1c is too low. Insurance and Doctors can only prescribe it if your Hba1c is over 5.5. Mine improved in the past 6 months from nearly 6 to 4.8 so i am not eligible at all for it sadly

but at least i continue getting full coverage for Jardiance and Metformin

Are you T2D?
How are you on Jardiance with 4.8

My triglycerides went up, not down after initiating Lipitor + Repatha therapy. They went from 50 to near 200 when my LDL went to 13.

My concern as well. It does seem like some amount of trig is actually required by the body to function

 

[Nidus]

Are you T2D?
How are you on Jardiance with 4.8

My concern as well. It does seem like some amount of trig is actually required by the body to function

Yes, T2D. My hba1c has improved a ton fairly quickly but my insulin resistance is of the shits. It's actually insanely high and was really bad. Right now its at 5.9.