Bloodwork 11 months post cycle

[kosp]

hi,

I did 13 weeks of test c and mast 11 months ago.

my previous TT levels were oscillating between 740 and 820ng/dL, checked multiple times.

8 months post cycle were 618 ng/dL

11 months 644 ng/dL

LH and FSH are ok, like pre-cycle levels. Prolactin kind of high.

TT 6,44 (2,4 - 8,71)
LH 3,93 (0,57 - 12,07)
FSH 2,4 (0,95 - 11,95)
Prolactine 19,79 (3,46 - 19,4)
SHBG 28 (13,5 - 71,4)
HDL 49 (>40)

My previous HDL cycle was way better, about 65 - 70...

I have been having some low libido waves, but overall I feel normal.

I am kind of worried, I felt more sexual potency before, how long can it really takes to fully recover?

 

[Type-IIx]

You are fully recovered and have been for some time. There won't be any future point where you recover any more. There might be higher TT levels in bloodwork, that fluctuate between & within days, but not that reflect any further trend increase in hypothalamo-pituitary-testes function.

 

[kosp]

You are fully recovered and have been for some time. There won't be any future point where you recover any more. There might be higher TT levels in bloodwork, that fluctuate between & within days, but not that reflect any further trend increase in hypothalamo-pituitary-testes function.

So given a baseline level, there can be ≈20% fluctuations, I see.

Just to note, this time I did my bloodwork in a different lab, all my previous TT bloodwork took place in another one, can that affect a 20% too?

 

[kosp]

You are fully recovered and have been for some time. There won't be any future point where you recover any more. There might be higher TT levels in bloodwork, that fluctuate between & within days, but not that reflect any further trend increase in hypothalamo-pituitary-testes function.

Also, I won't have peace of mind until I see a 800ng/dL in the paper, I am a bit paranoid about that, that's why I know cycling isn't for me.

 

[GuerillaPete]

Also, I won't have peace of mind until I see a 800ng/dL in the paper, I am a bit paranoid about that, that's why I know cycling isn't for me.

I would add 12,5mg aromasin 2x per week and retest.
Check estradiol also next time.
But the number on the paper will not influence much how you feel or your performance.
Lower estradiol from the ai should up your test and lower prolactin.

 

[Jin23]

Also, I won't have peace of mind until I see a 800ng/dL in the paper, I am a bit paranoid about that, that's why I know cycling isn't for me.

You wont and if you do it will be as @Type-IIx said, a transient elevation, although I doubt you'll see even that - but if you do, it doesn't mater. And I agree, you're done recovering. Makes little sense worrying about it. Besides, your TT and SHBG levels are fine.

You might have had higher shbg pre cycling and that could have been reflected in a higher TT level. Although it's usually the opposite, my shbg is around 70 - 80 after cycling when it used to be around 40.

I wouldn't mess with Ai's though. Any gains made with Ai's is only temporary. I've no knowledge about Ai's increasing leydig cell function or increasing LH output long term. Estrogen should bounce back and with it; the whole system should return back to your baseline. @GuerillaPete what's the reasoning behind Ai use; what good would a short term T elevation serve?

 

[kosp]

You wont and if you do it will be as @Type-IIx said, a transient elevation, although I doubt you'll see even that - but if you do, it doesn't mater. And I agree, you're done recovering. Makes little sense worrying about it. Besides, your TT and SHBG levels are fine.

You might have had higher shbg pre cycling and that could have been reflected in a higher TT level. Although it's usually the opposite, my shbg is around 70 - 80 after cycling when it used to be around 40.

I don't think so, it hasn't even been a year after first pin of test, besides, I did TT bloodwork 3 weeks after last dose of SERMs and I did 720ng/dL.

Yes my levels are fine and I feel normal, but how can you say that I am done recovering when I didn't achieve my previous levels?

About the SHBG, it influences the amount of testosterone that is available for use in the body, it doesn't directly affect the production of total testosterone, so I don't see your point there.

 

[GuerillaPete]

You wont and if you do it will be as @Type-IIx said, a transient elevation, although I doubt you'll see even that - but if you do, it doesn't mater. And I agree, you're done recovering. Makes little sense worrying about it. Besides, your TT and SHBG levels are fine.

You might have had higher shbg pre cycling and that could have been reflected in a higher TT level. Although it's usually the opposite, my shbg is around 70 - 80 after cycling when it used to be around 40.

I wouldn't mess with Ai's though. Any gains made with Ai's is only temporary. I've no knowledge about Ai's increasing leydig cell function or increasing LH output long term. Estrogen should bounce back and with it; the whole system should return back to your baseline. @GuerillaPete what's the reasoning behind Ai use; what good would a short term T elevation serve?

Also, I won't have peace of mind until I see a 800ng/dL in the paper

Also you not having knowledge of something does not make it not true.
Look into ai mono therapy.
On the not making a difference overall i agree.

 

[Jin23]

Also you not having knowledge of something does not make it not true.

I said that to underline the fact that I haven't studied this topic particularly well and thus my reasoning might be incomplete. Apparently I haven't worded my statement clearly enough.

 

[Jin23]

About the SHBG, it influences the amount of testosterone that is available for use in the body, it doesn't directly affect the production of total testosterone, so I don't see your point there.

Right. In eugonadal men, higher SHBG levels are corelated with higher total testosterone levels. SHBG is part of the body's self regulating mechanism. A lot of people who have high TT number's usually have rather high SHBG's and when they go on a mission to lower SHBG, TT usually drops off. If TT is high, the body will usually self regulate by producing more SHBG and if SHBG is high, testosterone production can be upregulated.

 

[Jin23]

I don't think so, it hasn't even been a year after first pin of test, besides, I did TT bloodwork 3 weeks after last dose of SERMs and I did 720ng/dL.

Yes my levels are fine and I feel normal, but how can you say that I am done recovering when I didn't achieve my previous levels?

You can beat your head around this as much as you want. It's been 11 months. That's long enough. Your cycle was also of normal, short duration.

The higher TT you got 3 weeks after the last dose of the serm is MOST probably an unrealistic number and was elevated due to the serm being still present in your system (which serm did you use and what was your protocol?) that or your body just hasn't downregulated to your new baseline. If your LH was higher then it is now, then that's the reason why TT was higher.

 

[kosp]

You can beat your head around this as much as you want. It's been 11 months. That's long enough. Your cycle was also of normal, short duration.

The higher TT you got 3 weeks after the last dose of the serm is MOST probably an unrealistic number and was elevated due to the serm being still present in your system (which serm did you use and what was your protocol?) that or your body just hasn't downregulated to your new baseline. If your LH was higher then it is now, then that's the reason why TT was higher.

Just a regular pct, 4 weeks nolva/clomid 20/50 starting 4 weeks after last pin of test c.

Curiously, my LH then was lower than it is now.

LH at 3.3 = 720 ng/dL TT
Now LH at 3.9 = 644 ng/dL

What's this ?

 

[Jin23]

Just a regular pct, 4 weeks nolva/clomid 20/50 starting 4 weeks after last pin of test c.

Curiously, my LH then was lower than it is now.

LH at 3.3 = 720 ng/dL TT
Now LH at 3.9 = 644 ng/dL

What's this ?

This would imply that the serm either somehow enhanced gonadal function or that something has changed in the last 11 months. Or a discrepancy in lab work ofc ...

Fyi tamoxifen and zuclomiphene were still present in your system 3 weeks after you stopped.

 

[kosp]

Anecdotically, years ago I started a cycle, 500 test c 400 mast e, I had to come off 2.5 weeks into it because of the covid situation, that was in early March 2020.

May 2020, test at 400

July 2020 test at 600

December 2020 test at 800 again.

Just for 2.5 weeks of cycle.... LH and FSH were good, even though LH and TT are ofc directly correlated, TT seems to go on its own.

 

[kosp]

I will get my true numbers back you will see

 

[kosp]

This shit suppresses more than everyone thinks, even with LH and FSH ok, you cannot fool your body.

 

[Type-IIx]

So given a baseline level, there can be ≈20% fluctuations, I see.

Just to note, this time I did my bloodwork in a different lab, all my previous TT bloodwork took place in another one, can that affect a 20% too?

Sure, the coefficient of variation for daily secretory T secretion (the magnitude of diurnal variation) can be much greater than 20%. Generally T is highest in the morning, lowest at night, it fluctuates throughout the day.

 

[Type-IIx]

This shit suppresses more than everyone thinks, even with LH and FSH ok, you cannot fool your body.

Sure, so does time of course (as you age T sees a trend decline). There are effects of seasonality, dopamine activity increases T, etc.

But sure, if you use AAS, expect some degree of irreversible decrease to HPG axis functioning, still probably within normal TT ranges: and consider this recovery. But do also realize that as you get older, it's never going up over time.

 

[kosp]

Sure, so does time of course (as you age T sees a trend decline). There are effects of seasonality, dopamine activity increases T, etc.

But sure, if you use AAS, expect some degree of irreversible decrease to HPG axis functioning, still probably within normal TT ranges: and consider this recovery. But do also realize that as you get older, it's never going up over time.

I don't think I crossed the line of making irreversible damage.

I have done 3 full cycles and another 2 had to stop at 2-3 weeks. Since 18 and I am 27. Never more than 13 weeks. Always resting +1year as minimum, even more.

 

[Type-IIx]

I don't think I crossed the line of making irreversible damage.

I have done 3 full cycles and another 2 had to stop at 2-3 weeks. Since 18 and I am 27. Never more than 13 weeks. Always resting +1year as minimum, even more.

OK.