BlueDress Primo and Var

[SolidChemistry]

Back again after 9 months.

Have been offline for a while - I had kind of a personal scare last fall with my own bloodwork. Ends up that I’m a rare person who has below normal white cells…and it was an inherited thing not to ultimately worry about (I still have plenty), but a few weeks of different doctors and looking for cancer was very sobering. It all turned out well and the whole ordeal led to me(BlackJacket) getting on TRT+ and I'm cruising VERY well now.

Most of the Meso crew here remember BlueDress from last year. She did two 8-week anavar cycles last year and made great gains each time. Her first cycle was the best. At 20mg split ED, she never had any substantial side effects other then the minor ones I reported in the first log last year.

Now she wants to try Primo and stack some var. After doing research and confirming a few things with @GearGoddess (Thank you for your help again), this is the plan:

Weeks 1-8 Primo 20mg pinned 2x/wk

Weeks 9-10 Primo 20mg 2x/wk, VAR 10mg (Split)/ED (Start Var 2nd week of MAY)

Weeks 11-16 Primo 20mg 2x/wk, VAR 20mg (split)/ED (End Primo last week June)

Week 17 VAR 20mg (Split)

Week 18 Var 10 mg (Split) (End Var 2nd week of July)

OPTION 1: Weeks 17-20 Also continue w/Primo 20mg 2x/wk

We have everything, pharma grade, - and notably enough Primo to throttle up to 50mg/week if we find its not enough and even extend the Primo run out to 20 weeks (1st week of August) and longer on a reduced dose. This is a long run, but unlike the Var, we understand it’s easier on the system and possible to do such a long run. We're planning on getting bloodwork at week 16 anyway which can give a good check on decision making to extend the Var. Of course, everything will depend on how she feels and the severity of any sides.

One thing we also thought about was an (OPTION 2) - Smaller but longer Var run at 10mg(Split)/ED Weeks 9-20. Appreciate any thoughts as we start later this week. I’ll update this thread with more detail as we get going.

 

[Wendylifts]

How is Blue Dress?

 

[SolidChemistry]

Hey @Wendylifts (you're looking awesome on that NPP!!!)

Three weeks in - and it's been a bit of a rough start. First, work interrupted her training schedule (had to travel for a week and it was difficult to eat right and train normally) and then she hurt her back the week right after she got back. She hasn't lifted for a week now, although she's been religiously stretching and doing some light cardio daily. She finally saw a PT last night who thinks it's really a connector in her glutes. She felt a lot better after she worked on her, but was in pain again this morning. Hopefully, a little more rest and she can get back to her normal routine. My wife is pretty frustrated and as pissed as I've ever seen her.

Dosage has been pretty modest - just 40mg split into two 20mg pins a week. Injection sites got extremely sore afterwards. At first, we thought it was just our "technique" but it seems from what we learned, that's pretty common with primobolan. BlueDress reports a general feeling of just 'pretty good mood' overall, but doesn't feel stronger yet. She told me that she noticed some quad separation under clothes coming through that she doesn't ever recall seeing with clothes on, but I can't say I've noticed anything really dramatic yet. I take that back - she feels denser to me, although she doesn't look it quite yet.

She remarked that she feels 'heavy' ...and fat (but not bloated). She thinks her clothes are all tight but I can't say I can tell. She weighs the same. All this 'feeling heavy/fat' without seeing a whole lot, coupled with being injured is collectively bringing her down a bit. She knows not to expect to notice much until about 4 weeks but I think given her previous great experience with var, there's this underlying expectation she should be feeling more. The good news is that she has absolutely zero sides so far.

So a lot of girls have taken more - 50, 60, 80, 100 mg a week and more. I know @ironhardempress has had good luck with 100/week. So she is tempted to up the dose. I recommended we wait until after week 4 since she's battling this injury anyway. Then maybe go to 50 or 60. BlueDress is a big girl though and did just fine on 20mg var - just a little acne. I appreciate any thoughts. As @GearGodess has said, small tweaks can give big changes. Right now - we're just maintaining 40.

 

[ironhardempress]

SInce i had some Winstrol on hand, i decided to take the sage advice of @GearGoddess and scale back my Primo dosage to 50 mg/week but Winstrol every day for 6 weeks starting at 10 mg and working up to 25. I'll be interested to see the results. Eating clean as always and working hard in the gym. When the 6 weeks is up I will bump the Primo back up to 100 mg. Then i will take a break for a ~6 weeks and start another cycle leading up to my competition. That will probably just be Primo only but I'll finish off with Masteron for very short time (2-3 weeks i think, have to be careful with that) for hardening.

 

[GearGodess]

Hey @Wendylifts (you're looking awesome on that NPP!!!)

Three weeks in - and it's been a bit of a rough start. First, work interrupted her training schedule (had to travel for a week and it was difficult to eat right and train normally) and then she hurt her back the week right after she got back. She hasn't lifted for a week now, although she's been religiously stretching and doing some light cardio daily. She finally saw a PT last night who thinks it's really a connector in her glutes. She felt a lot better after she worked on her, but was in pain again this morning. Hopefully, a little more rest and she can get back to her normal routine. My wife is pretty frustrated and as pissed as I've ever seen her.

Dosage has been pretty modest - just 40mg split into two 20mg pins a week. Injection sites got extremely sore afterwards. At first, we thought it was just our "technique" but it seems from what we learned, that's pretty common with primobolan. BlueDress reports a general feeling of just 'pretty good mood' overall, but doesn't feel stronger yet. She told me that she noticed some quad separation under clothes coming through that she doesn't ever recall seeing with clothes on, but I can't say I've noticed anything really dramatic yet. I take that back - she feels denser to me, although she doesn't look it quite yet.

She remarked that she feels 'heavy' ...and fat (but not bloated). She thinks her clothes are all tight but I can't say I can tell. She weighs the same. All this 'feeling heavy/fat' without seeing a whole lot, coupled with being injured is collectively bringing her down a bit. She knows not to expect to notice much until about 4 weeks but I think given her previous great experience with var, there's this underlying expectation she should be feeling more. The good news is that she has absolutely zero sides so far.

So a lot of girls have taken more - 50, 60, 80, 100 mg a week and more. I know @ironhardempress has had good luck with 100/week. So she is tempted to up the dose. I recommended we wait until after week 4 since she's battling this injury anyway. Then maybe go to 50 or 60. BlueDress is a big girl though and did just fine on 20mg var - just a little acne. I appreciate any thoughts. As @GearGodess has said, small tweaks can give big changes. Right now - we're just maintaining 40.

Question, she's 3 weeks in and noticing changes already plus very painful injections... is she using Primo Ace??? That's what this sounds like to me and YES primo Ace does have a bite to it even at small doses. Primo E at such small doses shouldn't hurt at all unless it's actually the way you inject or the location.

 

[SolidChemistry]

It's Primo enthanate... or at least what it should be!

Her last two injections have not been painful - so maybe it was technique. She remarked that besides feeling good, she still hasn't noticed much effects at all although I think she feels slightly denser. She may be a little impatient and said "I can't wait to add the Anavar - that stuff works. This ...meh...I'm not feeling it."

Entering into week 5 now, she upped the dose from 2x20mg/week to 2x25mg/week last night.

I think you said she wouldn't really feel it kick in until 8 weeks, right?

Here's a recent pic - honestly, this is about normal size and hardness for her.

 

[GearGodess]

It's Primo enthanate... or at least what it should be!

Her last two injections have not been painful - so maybe it was technique. She remarked that besides feeling good, she still hasn't noticed much effects at all although I think she feels slightly denser. She may be a little impatient and said "I can't wait to add the Anavar - that stuff works. This ...meh...I'm not feeling it."

Entering into week 5 now, she upped the dose from 2x20mg/week to 2x25mg/week last night.

I think you said she wouldn't really feel it kick in until 8 weeks, right?

Here's a recent pic - honestly, this is about normal size and hardness for her.

OK yes so it had to be technique or even location or even as simple as the alcohol not completely dry before inserting the needle. Could be so many things.

Just like with the way she looks, (she looks great btw) could be many factors like diet and her training or primo building up. YES, I typically do not expect to feel/see much till week 8 on Primo. 50mg a week is a good dose and I would stay there the next few weeks especially if she is wanting to add var to it. I don't think she really needs to up the dose further. t again, see how she feels and looks 8 weeks in.

I would give another 3 weeks before adding anything to it. Patience is key... right @Wendylifts - hehehehe, she hates when I tell her that! lmao

 

[Wendylifts]

OK yes so it had to be technique or even location or even as simple as the alcohol not completely dry before inserting the needle. Could be so many things.

Just like with the way she looks, (she looks great btw) could be many factors like diet and her training or primo building up. YES, I typically do not expect to feel/see much till week 8 on Primo. 50mg a week is a good dose and I would stay there the next few weeks especially if she is wanting to add var to it. I don't think she really needs to up the dose further. t again, see how she feels and looks 8 weeks in.

I would give another 3 weeks before adding anything to it. Patience is key... right @Wendylifts - hehehehe, she hates when I tell her that! lmao

I want more patience and I want it now!

 

[GearGodess]

I want more patience and I want it now!

Miss Patience Wendy McBoobs!

 

[SolidChemistry]

Not a whole lot new as BD enters week 7. The biggest news ,come to find out, was that the Primo is actually acetate vice enthanate. Dosage is the same but @geargoddess was spot on on her suspicion - and the sting in the shot is there most of the time still.

Dosing is still 50mg/week (2 times at 25 mg). She says she feels, for the first time for sure, a little more hardness in her legs - and legs only. I think she feels harder overall but nothing really is visibly different yet. That said we haven't done a whole lot of cardio the past two weeks and macros have been around 40/30/30 (p/c/f).

She's actually had an uptick in comments from people - so maybe other people are seeing a change, but we generally aren't just yet. She's psyched to add Var and misses the quick results and increase in strength she felt last time. (Will not add anymore Primo.) She's up to go 2x10mg Var a day, the week after next, but I think we'll stick with the plan for 2x5mg instead - at least for a while.

Strength is great. No PRs but she is training with max weight or nearly max weight on everything. She curled 80 lbs EZ for her last set Thursday night - which caused some other guy to move to the other end of the gym. (Cracks me up). Today she was squatting 205 for sets.

No perceptible sides still except that I think she is a little more irritable. She's pretty easy going but I think she's become a little more snappy with everyone. I wouldn't call it "roid rage" but I definitely think there's a slightly shorter fuse now. Usually she feels "good" all around though. No change in libido.

Hope everyone had a Happy Easter.

Progress pic from today.

 

[GearGodess]

Not a whole lot new as BD enters week 7. The biggest news ,come to find out, was that the Primo is actually acetate vice enthanate. Dosage is the same but @geargoddess was spot on on her suspicion - and the sting in the shot is there most of the time still.

Dosing is still 50mg/week (2 times at 25 mg). She says she feels, for the first time for sure, a little more hardness in her legs - and legs only. I think she feels harder overall but nothing really is visibly different yet. That said we haven't done a whole lot of cardio the past two weeks and macros have been around 40/30/30 (p/c/f).

She's actually had an uptick in comments from people - so maybe other people are seeing a change, but we generally aren't just yet. She's psyched to add Var and misses the quick results and increase in strength she felt last time. (Will not add anymore Primo.) She's up to go 2x10mg Var a day, the week after next, but I think we'll stick with the plan for 2x5mg instead - at least for a while.

Strength is great. No PRs but she is training with max weight or nearly max weight on everything. She curled 80 lbs EZ for her last set Thursday night - which caused some other guy to move to the other end of the gym. (Cracks me up). Today she was squatting 205 for sets.

No perceptible sides still except that I think she is a little more irritable. She's pretty easy going but I think she's become a little more snappy with everyone. I wouldn't call it "roid rage" but I definitely think there's a slightly shorter fuse now. Usually she feels "good" all around though. No change in libido.

Hope everyone had a Happy Easter.

Progress pic from today.

I'm glad you figured that out now as it will allow BD to adjust and make the most of it starting now!

Here is what I would do for the next 5 weeks with the Primo Ace, I know it stings but the reason she is noticing tiny changes but not significant and no undesirable sides at all at this point is because the dose is small for primo ace and not often enough. If you trust me, I would change her pinning schedule to eod, only because the primo ace has a very short half life and slightly prolonged in an injectable versus oral suspension. To keep it simple, reduce the pins to 20mg per shot eod or if she can handle even smaller pins with even less volume at 10mg/day - rotating sites will be key obviously and massage massage massage.... She shouldn't feel those too much.

Her irritability right now could stem from the simple fact that she has her pins spaced out so far apart. If it was primo enanthate then it's OK due to it's half life but ace is very short.

I would wait 2 weeks before adding var to the mix and see how that works out for her. And she should be good with 20mg a day of var given her history with the primo. That is ultimately my favorite combo!

 

[SolidChemistry]

Eggggggzzzzellent...

It all makes sense now. Talked to BD and she was," Absolutely sounds good. Let's do this!"

I think there is some relief with her now that you explained the difference in half-life and dosing. She just was generally bummed and angry that after 7 weeks of stinging herself twice a week with that acetate, she really had little to no effects good or bad. She even said the slight hardening she might be feeling might just be the result of her turning on the mental gas tearing up training to really get the most out of the cycle - and nothing else.

So she's going to move to infecting 20 mg EOD starting tomorrow with next pin. I can help with spreading it around to different sites. She's stoked. She suggested we just hold off on Var for another month to get good effects out of this primo first since this has really been underdosed so far - almost a non-cycle. BD said she was more psyched to add the var even later after really getting results off primo and being able to run the var 8 weeks June-July - when she's not teaching and can train harder and "enjoy" benefits over summer longer.

Great advice - again. Thank you GG. If you hadn't honed in on the "painful injection" comment earlier, we would have never gone back, checked, and figured out it was primo-acetate instead of primo-enthanate. We would have underdosed the whole cycle and just thought that primo wasn't worth it for her. I love Meso... this board is awesome.

So I'll post again as we up the frequency/weekly dosage.

 

[high-octane]

Nice physique. Keep up the good work!

 

[suncom3]

Bd arms and shoulders are unreal,how long has she been training hard core?My wife hurt her back doing dead lifts,the T she is on along with that injury deff makes for a angry moma. Did the primo you have not come labeled properly? After seeing DP primo test out false,thought id try this one. http://www.sport-hgh.com/goods.php?id=49

hope for the best with labmax test

 

[SolidChemistry]

Hey @suncom3, thanks - BlueDress has been at it about 25 years give and take. She's lifted heavy for 15+ years all naturally. Her family has CRAZY good genetics -everyone of her siblings puts on muscle easily even though no one else trains. Last year she did two var cycles (you can see the first log back last year here) to give her a boost since we're getting older. She liked the experience and was open to trying new compounds this year.

The primo was not labelled because of the way it was hermetically shipped for "import". It's simply relabeled atop the packaging as "Primobolan 100mg/ml" on this end. When we retested with our guy, it proved to be Primo Acetate - he had thought it was enthanate too. It's not Test and at the same time we we were checking that, I also had BD get bloodwork done. She has normal T-levels...and above normal/elevated IGF-1, explained by the low dosing of the Primo-Ace earlier.

This past week she's been pinning 20mg every other day. Not noticing anything significant yet but hope to see some results in a month or so.

I've been cruising on TRT with great results the last 4 months and BlueDress has recently expressed interest in checking out female TRT later this year, but we'll see. (I got denser and veins everywhere - that's what's she wants.) Obviously, we're concerned about sides and long term use even with a super low dose for her but we were a little encouraged by what we've learned here this year. How long has your wife been doing Test? Is it part of a separate cycle or female TRT?

 

[suncom3]

She has been on T pellets for about a yr. Other than the 4 month float that imho looks like a very big curve,its been great for her.Nice not to have to inject every week,but no where near a even line of delivery like t cyp. I posted in another thread about it. Id like to know if the Tcyp will convert to E at roughly the same amount the tcyp does.We both have scripts for both for pharma.The tcyp would be better for even delivery and cost 10 to 20X less though. once your use to pins,I dont see much of a reason for pellets unless their is something I dont know yet. The hrt docs have no issue with keeping active women around 300 T. Very little unwanted sides,plenty of beneficial sides though..... I have a script for hgh also.We will be trying that next,cost being the only downside. But the way they talk about the black tops here from PD,120 bucks month sounds alot better than what pharma cost here.

 

[SolidChemistry]

Three weeks now since pinning 20mg Primo Ace EOD - thanks to @GearGodess for pointing us in the right direction again with acetate.
No negative sides yet. Some increased joint pain and generally feeling tighter.
Diet has been about 1700 with macros at 40/30/30.

The last couple days, BlueDress finally reports feeling "something" as the primo started to build - no huge gains in strength, but tighter overall and feeling good.

With a deficit diet - she's been cutting a little more but doesn't feel the loss of energy as much as she normally would.

I can say she's a bit harder now - especially upper body. She's getting some increased attention too so other people besides me are noticing. (I tell her she looks good but she doesn't believe me !) She's got used to pinning and that sting of the acetate. Massaging the injection site helps.

We're hoping she feels even more next week - week 4 of increased dosage. According steroidcalc (thanks @Eman ) the primobolan will be levelling out at about 8mg/day released and steady after next week.

She's enjoying the primo and actually wants to let it work longer while cutting more. We'll wait even longer before introducing the var. We thought we'd wait at least two more weeks, but will probably wait until June.

Some pics from this last couple days.

 

[suncom3]

How's the steroidcalc work? Wow she is looking powerful.

 

[SolidChemistry]

How's the steroidcalc work? Wow she is looking powerful.

@suncom3 , steroidcalc.com has a database of common steroids with an easy interface that you load your cycle into. Based off the dosage, frequency, length of time you're on it, and the half-life of the steroid, it plots a graph of how much is in your system. There's an android app for it but you can just go to the site and use the web app.

Last night BD was upset with her weight even though she looks pretty damned incredible. She said," I'm 5'-4" tall and weigh almost 175lbs now. I'm bigger than most men my height. I'm too damned thick! My arms are just huge." I had told her she would get denser and maybe recomp a bit on primo, but it's no diet drug. She wasn't going to lose weight unless she did it the ole fashioned way... this helps when cutting, but unless she did clen etc...AAS doesn't make you lose weight. Anyway, she said,"I think I'm going to take a week off(injecting) while you're gone." I showed her on steroidcalc why that wasn't a great idea. She could see how the primo was just starting to stabilize levels at 4 weeks and if she stopped, how much it would plummet and that she'd be wasting another couple weeks to restore levels. She was bummed because she is about 10lbs heavier than where she was last year at this time (and she was looking smoking hot - abs were out nicely etc). This morning she said she was going to stick the regime, she was feeling a little better. She had been bloated and stopped up - my girl was pretty miserable and has lot of work stress too.

In any case, all is good.

Here is a copy of the graph as an example.

 

[Eman]

@suncom3 , steroidcalc.com has a database of common steroids with an easy interface that you load your cycle into. Based off the dosage, frequency, length of time you're on it, and the half-life of the steroid, it plots a graph of how much is in your system. There's an android app for it but you can just go to the site and use the web app.

Last night BD was upset with her weight even though she looks pretty damned incredible. She said," I'm 5'-4" tall and weigh almost 175lbs now. I'm bigger than most men my height. I'm too damned thick! My arms are just huge." I had told her she would get denser and maybe recomp a bit on primo, but it's no diet drug. She wasn't going to lose weight unless she did it the ole fashioned way... this helps when cutting, but unless she did clen etc...AAS doesn't make you lose weight. Anyway, she said,"I think I'm going to take a week off(injecting) while you're gone." I showed her on steroidcalc why that wasn't a great idea. She could see how the primo was just starting to stabilize levels at 4 weeks and if she stopped, how much it would plummet and that she'd be wasting another couple weeks to restore levels. She was bummed because she is about 10lbs heavier than where she was last year at this time (and she was looking smoking hot - abs were out nicely etc). This morning she said she was going to stick the regime, she was feeling a little better. She had been bloated and stopped up - my girl was pretty miserable and has lot of work stress too.

In any case, all is good.

Here is a copy of the graph as an example.

Perfect use of the graph, well done putting things into perspective.

Weight does seem to fluctuate a fair amount early on in a cycle, one the hormones stabilize thinks tend to get easier. IME anyways.

Tell her to keep water intake high, keep an eye on calories and have fun.