CABER HELP

[JeffroCat]

Cabergoline-induced tricuspid regurgitation: Case report and review of literature

The increased risk of cardiac valve disease in patients treated for Parkinson's disease with cabergoline has raised concerns about the safety of treatment with ergot-derived dopamine agonists in patients with endocrine diseases, especially prolactinoma. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Valvular heart disease and the use of dopamine agonists for Parkinson's disease - PubMed

The frequency of clinically important valve regurgitation was significantly increased in patients taking pergolide or cabergoline, but not in patients taking non-ergot-derived dopamine agonists, as compared with control subjects. These findings should be considered in evaluating the risk-benefit...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Dopamine agonists and the risk of cardiac-valve regurgitation - PubMed

In this study, use of the dopamine agonists pergolide and cabergoline was associated with an increased risk of newly diagnosed cardiac-valve regurgitation.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

So from this what do you presume is the effect of 6 to 12 mgs of cabergoline over a period of 4 months?

 

[BigTomJ]

So from this what do you presume is the effect of 6 to 12 mgs of cabergoline over a period of 4 months?

im not suggesting that caber is some super toxic medication.

im suggesting its potentially hazardous and almost exclusively not necessary in 90% of users that get proper bloodwork.

if you need it, you need it, and the health impacts are likely lesser than the impact of extended periods of elevated prolactin. but almost no one needs it, most take it because they "feel" like their prolactin is high, or because their bloodwork came back high, without first addressing elevated e2

 

[JeffroCat]

im not suggesting that caber is some super toxic medication.

im suggesting its potentially hazardous and almost exclusively not necessary in 90% of users that get proper bloodwork.

if you need it, you need it, and the health impacts are likely lesser than the impact of extended periods of elevated prolactin. but almost no one needs it, most take it because they "feel" like their prolactin is high, or because their bloodwork came back high, without first addressing elevated e2

I don't disagree with this.

 

[baxter0312]

im not suggesting that caber is some super toxic medication.

im suggesting its potentially hazardous and almost exclusively not necessary in 90% of users that get proper bloodwork.

if you need it, you need it, and the health impacts are likely lesser than the impact of extended periods of elevated prolactin. but almost no one needs it, most take it because they "feel" like their prolactin is high, or because their bloodwork came back high, without first addressing elevated e2

Everything you just said could be said by the anti-AI people just exchange the words. So I’m failing to understand your point. Are you telling people that their problems aren’t real and they should do nothing to address them?

 

[baxter0312]

Look, it’s pretty simple. If your titties ache and caber fixes the problem, guess what your problem is prolactin. High e 2 comes with a separate host of symptoms . you treat symptoms not numbers.

 

[BigTomJ]

Everything you just said could be said by the anti-AI people just exchange the words. So I’m failing to understand your point. Are you telling people that their problems aren’t real and they should do nothing to address them?

what part did you not understand?

its simple.

Think prolactin is high?
get bloodwork.

did bloodwork come back with high prolactin?
check estrogen

Was estrogen also high?
address high estrogen first.

got bloodwork again, estrogen in range, and still elevated prolactin?
take caber, or better yet just dont take shit that elevates your prolactin in the first place, and next time you plan a 19nor cycle, add in p5p prfoilactically to avoid the prolactin increase before you need caber

 

[BigTomJ]

Look, it’s pretty simple. If your titties ache and caber fixes the problem, guess what your problem is prolactin. High e 2 comes with a separate host of symptoms . you treat symptoms not numbers.

no, its 2023.

we dont address sides by "feels" anymore

youre correct in that we dont want to arbitrarily fixate on numbers without the presense of side effects, if it isnt broke dont fix it.

but you dont address side effects blindly without bloodwork

 

[baxter0312]

Any endo will tell you “ treat symptoms not numbers “ it’s like their motto. They have to deal with All those people that go into their office and want 50 things tested and they go crazy if something is out of range.

 

[baxter0312]

And p5p is garbage let’s just get that out of the way

 

[Rido]

Any endo will tell you “ treat symptoms not numbers “ it’s like their motto. They have to deal with All those people that go into their office and want 50 things tested and they go crazy if something is out of range.

I disagree with that treat symptoms not numbers. Cause then they will give testosterone to everyone lol

 

[BigTomJ]

Any endo will tell you “ treat symptoms not numbers “ it’s like their motto. They have to deal with All those people that go into their office and want 50 things tested and they go crazy if something is out of range.

you treat symptoms WITH numbers.
how is this so hard to understand

And p5p is garbage let’s just get that out of the way

youre just flat wrong.

im no longer involving myself with this idiotic back and forth

 

[baxter0312]

you treat symptoms WITH numbers.
how is this so hard to understand

youre just flat wrong.

im no longer involving myself with this idiotic back and forth

P5p causes nerve problems at any dose that would do anything. Selegiline is a better alternative.

You went from saying “almost no one needs this” to saying “well if you need it you need it” to saying “if your prolactin is high then use it”

Well no shit thanks for your valuable input

 

[BigTomJ]

P5p causes nerve problems at any dose that would do anything.

youre confusing p5p with regular b6. p5p would never be taken at a dose even remotely close to causing nerve issues

You went from saying “almost no one needs this” to saying “well if you need it you need it” to saying “if your prolactin is high then use it”

go read my posts again, and put your reading comprehension glasses on.

almost no one needs caber because almost ALL situations of elevated prolactin or symptoms of elevated prolactin can be addressed by correcting elevated e2. Period.

I then outlined EXACTLY how to determine if you do, in fact, need caber. IE if you did bloodwork and had in range e2 and elevated prolactin and experiencing high prolactin sides. this simple concept is apparently too complicated for you.

Well no shit thanks for your valuable input

your idiotic, misinformed take on this subject drug me back in against my better judgement.

 

[baxter0312]

elevated prolactin?
take caber, or better yet just dont take shit that elevates your prolactin in the first place

Also thank you for this gem.
I’ll just stop using Test, that will solve all my prolactin problems. You’re a genius

 

[baxter0312]

youre confusing p5p with regular b6. p5p would never be taken at a dose even remotely close to causing nerve issues

No I’m not I’m talking about as little as a 100mg dose of p5p

go read my posts again, and put your reading comprehension glasses on.

almost no one needs caber because almost ALL situations of elevated prolactin or symptoms of elevated prolactin can be addressed by correcting elevated e2. Period.

I then outlined EXACTLY how to determine if you do, in fact, need caber. IE if you did bloodwork and had in range e2 and elevated prolactin and experiencing high prolactin sides. this simple concept is apparently too complicated for you.


your idiotic, misinformed take on this subject drug me back in against my better judgement.

You’re making up an unlikely scenario. The idea of someone thinking they have a prolactin problem but is actually high e2 is far fetched . It’s almost always the opposite

 

[BigTomJ]

No I’m not I’m talking about as little as a 100mg dose of p5p

citation required

You’re making up an unlikely scenario. The idea of someone thinking they have a prolactin problem but is actually high e2 is far fetched . It’s almost always the opposite

astounding, you STILL dont comprehend.
ill try the smallest sentence i can just for you.

Elevated e2 is linked to elevated prolactin. fix the e2 and prolactin falls back in range.

99% of the time.



post up your bloodwork

 

[baxter0312]

yes prolactin rises in accordance with e2 they act like a seesaw. I know all about how that works. But that’s not relevant.

You came in here saying how no one should take the evil caber because it’s e2 not prolactin. You’re making a lot of assumptions there bud. You’re concocting a story in your head about a guy who’s never heard of e2 before and instead believes in the prolactin boogeyman. I’ve never met that guy.

 

[baxter0312]

post up your bloodwork

You mean my preliminary bloodwork before I hopped on test? I actually still have it I think

 

[BigTomJ]

You came in here saying how no one should take the evil caber because it’s e2 not prolactin. You’re making a lot of assumptions there bud. You’re concocting a story in your head about a guy who’s never heard of e2 before and instead believes in the prolactin boogeyman. I’ve never met that guy.

Ive never said any of these things man.

Clear as day i simply said "almost no one needs caber".

the reason almost no one needs caber is because most instances of elevated prolactin is due to elevated e2.

i then said if this isnt the case then caber makes sense. clear as day.

i never made any comment about "evil caber" until you brought it up, that was your assumption.

I dont think caber is some horrible poisonous drug, just like every drug it carries certain risks and we dont want to be subjecting ourselves to that if its unnecessary. Im all for the appropriate ancillary for the appropriate use case, most people just take caber casually for the wrong use case.

 

[BigTomJ]

You mean my preliminary bloodwork before I hopped on test? I actually still have it I think

i mean bloodwork, on cycle/trt/whatever you do that had in range e2 and elevated prolactin at a time that you were experiencing high prolactin side effects.