Can I get some guidance on addressing my horribly out of whack reproductive hormones?

[RoidmeDangerfield]

Hey, all.

My cheap ass finally got around to getting blood work done. The whole shebang was a little over $400. I just think of how many bottles of test or tren I could have bought with that. I did a comprehensive metabolic panel as well as one for erectile dysfunction. Hence, the main reason for me asking for advice in this particular thread. For the most part all of my blood work and eGFR look good. I've added 300mg of trenbolone enanthate to my 200mg of testosterone that I take indefinitely, for the most part. My medically prescribed dose of testosterone is 150mg weekly of either cypionate or enanthate. I add another 50mg of propionate that I got on my own. So, basically I'm on 500mg total of everything.

I have been complaining to my previous doctor for years about my ED and now that I've moved to another state my current doctor really isn't all that better. I now live in the burbs of a smaller city so getting a good doctor in my network is like finding a needle in a haystack. It's been a pain in the ass, to say the least. So I took matters into my own hands and ordered a sexual reproductive hormone blood panel from Quest Laboratories and have most of my results. God, so far the results I have (not all are in as you can see in the chart below) clearly indicate everything is out of whack. Some things are a hell of a lot worse than others like my estrogen which is over 100!


My questions are, what can I take long term to address my estrogen. I want to make it clear that I will get another panel done when I come off of the tren to see what direction my hormones go. But given that I've been on medically prescribed testosterone for over ten years (due to diagnosed hypogonadism) and my erectile dysfunction has been an issue for several years I do not think the trenbolone I recently added has anything to do with my concerns. In fact, it's made me want to have sex but physically getting and maintaining an erection is extremely difficult. I was on medically arimidex in the past and took .5mg two to three times a week but my new doctor told me to go off since long term use of this drug can cause heart problems which I and my previous doctor were unaware of.

So what is a safe long term solution to keep estrogen within a normal healthy range? I'm pretty sure such a high estrogen level is the result of my testosterone aromatizing. I've only done tren for two months and prior to that I haven't done any underground gear since I was in my mid to late thirties. I'm now fifty years old.

I also looked into normalizing my LH and FSH levels and it looks like Clomid would be a two birds with one stone option. Does anyone have any other suggestions?

My prolactin isn't terribly high but I may look into cabergoline. Are there other options or anything over the counter to help with this? I believe I read somewhere that if you can lower estrogen levels that prolactin levels can also lower together. We'll see how that goes with more testing in the future.

Lastly, what is the best approach to raise my SHBG to a normal level? Mine is terribly low! I just read that Tamoxifen can raise SHBG levels. Does anyone have any knowledge or experience with this?


I'm 5'10" and weigh 225lb and to look at me you wouldn't think my estrogen is very high. I took some photos of myself just last night at the pool and my abs are really popping thanks to the trenbolone and adding 40 minutes of cardio six days a week (mainly done in an attempt to control blood pressure). I'm leaner and bigger than I've been in over a decade.

I'm also waiting for results on pregnenolone which aren't ready yet.

Any pointers or suggestions?

 

[Gbro]

I would start by getting your estrogen in check. 12.5 MG of aromasin twice a week for two weeks, and then recheck your e2. Adjust your dosage up or down as necessary. I wouldn't be surprised to see improvement with your ed. Don't go taking a whole bunch of different stuff all at once. You won't know what works and what doesn't..

 

[RoidmeDangerfield]

Excellent point, Gbro. I'll take your advice. But it looks like aromatase inhibitors, in general, can cause heart problems and osteoporosis for long term users. Whereas Tamoxifen risks are blood clots and stroke (and endometrial cancer in women). However, those risks seem to be observed while taking daily doses for post breast cancer treatment.

Here's a short article talking about Arimidex, Aromasin and Femara:

Aromatase Inhibitors

In other words, I'm left wondering if Aromasin is going to pose the same long term risks.

 

[Mac11wildcat]

Excellent point, Gbro. I'll take your advice. But it looks like aromatase inhibitors, in general, can cause heart problems and osteoporosis for long term users. Whereas Tamoxifen risks are blood clots and stroke (and endometrial cancer in women). However, those risks seem to be observed while taking daily doses for post breast cancer treatment.

Here's a short article talking about Arimidex, Aromasin and Femara:

Aromatase Inhibitors

In other words, I'm left wondering if Aromasin is going to pose the same long term risks.

Those things develop from low estrogen, not the drugs themselves as I recall. Estrogen is protective of a a lot of bodily functions and organs. Crashing it is bad. Aromasin is the safest crash wise, and if you’re using gear correctly, you should not be on aromasin “long term.”

this conversation is also incomplete with out all your results back.

I find long term clomid to be an absolutely moronic solution. Why are you trying to “normalize” FSH and LH when it is an inherent result of exogenous gear use? Are you planning to PCT or have kids?

 

[RoidmeDangerfield]

Those things develop from low estrogen, not the drugs themselves as I recall. Estrogen is protective of a a lot of bodily functions and organs. Crashing it is bad. Aromasin is the safest crash wise, and if you’re using gear correctly, you should not be on aromasin “long term.”

this conversation is also incomplete with out all your results back.

I find long term clomid to be an absolutely moronic solution. Why are you trying to “normalize” FSH and LH when it is an inherent result of exogenous gear use? Are you planning to PCT or have kids?

Me? A dad? That's a very scary thought. No, I'm not planning on having kids.I don't care about sperm count. I'm just trying to focus on reversing my ED for happy sexual functioning and thought normalizing everything would be the ultimate goal to achieve that.

I have taken arimidex in the past on a regular schedule. I'm sure, with blood work using arimidex or aromasin to keep estrogen levels in check but I'm pretty sure it's not going to be the end all solution.

I do see online that low estrogen levels themselves can cause heart problems. But I can't seem to find specific information stating that it's actually the result of very low estrogen levels that cause heart problems and not the medications themselves. Do you have any links from reputable sources to support this? I'd like to bring it up to my doctor. In the meantime I'll look into switching to aromasin.

 

[Mac11wildcat]

Me? A dad? That's a very scary thought. No, I'm not planning on having kids.I don't care about sperm count. I'm just trying to focus on reversing my ED for happy sexual functioning and thought normalizing everything would be the ultimate goal to achieve that.

I have taken arimidex in the past on a regular schedule. I'm sure, with blood work using arimidex or aromasin to keep estrogen levels in check but I'm pretty sure it's not going to be the end all solution.

I do see online that low estrogen levels themselves can cause heart problems. But I can't seem to find specific information stating that it's actually the result of very low estrogen levels that cause heart problems and not the medications themselves. Do you have any links from reputable sources to support this? I'd like to bring it up to my doctor. In the meantime I'll look into switching to aromasin.

I can try to dig some up, do not have them on hand.

 

[Forthewin1123]

Soo I I'd recommend going back to 150mg test a week.. less aromatizing.. also I would cut tren in half.. I get better boners and libido with out tren..
Maybe add primo or add aromasin for ai.. I believe for long term use aromasin wins over the rest.
Also for lh fsh.. look into hmg.. I believe that is both of them.. adding that will raise the 2.. but do some research on hmg for I don't know alot about it.. .
Make 1 change at a time.. so you can learn as you go..

 

[Test_Subject]

The simplest, healthiest answer is to dial back your test dose to 125-150 and see how much that helps. You don’t want to be on AIs long term because they’re not great for you, and that extra 50-75mg of test is negligible growth-wise.

There was a study that I read a bit back that indicated that there was little to no difference in muscle growth within the normal physiological testosterone range. 200 mg probably puts you just over the top of the range, but if it’s causing E2 issues that’s the simplest solution by far.

 

[Mac11wildcat]

The simplest, healthiest answer is to dial back your test dose to 125-150 and see how much that helps. You don’t want to be on AIs long term because they’re not great for you, and that extra 50-75mg of test is negligible growth-wise.

There was a study that I read a bit back that indicated that there was little to no difference in muscle growth within the normal physiological testosterone range. 200 mg probably puts you just over the top of the range, but if it’s causing E2 issues that’s the simplest solution by far.

This is truth. This is why I beg guys to take real cruises in the physiological range and test only. The muscle loss is negligible at worst, if any, and your body appreciates the break from other compounds, AIs, and the stress of elevated testosterone.

 

[RoidmeDangerfield]

Okay, when I finish my tren/test cycle I will dial back down to 150 a week of test only. I was thinking of doing a total of sixteen weeks and I'm halfway through.

 

[RoidmeDangerfield]

By the way, I got my pregnenolone results back and it's low. It's 16 and the range should fall within 22-237.

I read on another bodybuilding forum that some people were using some type of pregnenolone cream to apply to their scrotum. There were some guys in that thread who claimed it worked and improved libido and sexual functioning. Does anyone here have any experience with this or are there other things a man can take to improve pregnenolone levels? I read this can be the culprit for ED. I'd like to focus on this after I get my estrogen levels back to normal.

 

[Gbro]

By the way, I got my pregnenolone results back and it's low. It's 16 and the range should fall within 22-237.

I read on another bodybuilding forum that some people were using some type of pregnenolone cream to apply to their scrotum. There were some guys in that thread who claimed it worked and improved libido and sexual functioning. Does anyone here have any experience with this or are their other things a person can use to improve pregnenolone? I read this can be the culprit for ED. I'd like to focus on this after I get my estrogen levels back to normal levels.

Dude... just do one thing and see what happens.

 

[RoidmeDangerfield]

Dude... just do one thing and see what happens.

As I said in my last sentence which you quoted me on, after I get my estrogen levels in check I'm going to address something else.

By the way, when we were all shut down for nearly a year, due to Covid, and I couldn't work out that entire time due to gym closures I dropped my testosterone injection to 100mg a week. It was only as of December of last year that I went back up to 150mg and then 200mg around Spring or summer of this year. I don't have bloodwork to show what my levels were for anything but my ED issues were still the same back then throughout the entire time. But I'm sure my estrogen levels were not as bad with only 100mg per week. That's why I have a hunch this will not be fixed with lowering estrogen only.

 

[WeightLossBurn]

Excellent point, Gbro. I'll take your advice. But it looks like aromatase inhibitors, in general, can cause heart problems and osteoporosis for long term users. Whereas Tamoxifen risks are blood clots and stroke (and endometrial cancer in women). However, those risks seem to be observed while taking daily doses for post breast cancer treatment.

Here's a short article talking about Arimidex, Aromasin and Femara:

Aromatase Inhibitors

In other words, I'm left wondering if Aromasin is going to pose the same long term risks.

You put far worse things into your body to now be concerned with the risks of Aromasin

 

[MaintenanceGuy]

I'm in this boat I thought my test was undersosed but I switched back to a lab I know was good and my erections are still weak. Cialis barely works I gotta pull bloods to see what's up. I'm following this one. I don't have symptoms of elevated e2, my shbg has been on the low end regularly.

 

[RoidmeDangerfield]

I gotta pull bloods to see what's up. I'm following this one. I don't have symptoms of elevated e2, my shbg has been on the low end regularly.

When you get your results please share them here. If you have a Quest labs testing site near you you'll get your results pretty quick.

 

[MaintenanceGuy]

@RoidmeDangerfield are you certain your test is legit. I had to switch back to some older vials about 2 months ago that I thought I had good bloods on but I've had to deal with so many labs who knows. Anyway I switched recently and morning wood is back. I'm not gonna shill without bloods but it's there. This alone sounds shillish but I wanted to mention it. I was getting
Mad concerned about it, especially with a new lady in my life.

 

[bodybuilder8806]

Agree with some of the posts above. Best thing to do in my opinion / experience is go back to a TRT dose of test after you finish the tren where you had good libido (If you know this dosage). If not then titrate from 100mg/week up while testing E2 etc to find what your feel good level is. Next if you want to add things in like Primo or other compounds just do one at a time, and do blood work after each adjustment to find out how it affected you. It's a long process, but the only real way to get things dialed in for the long term and keep an eye on health, libido, etc.

**Also make sure you're doing the LC/MS/MS versions of your hormone tests, particularly for Test and E2. This is even more important when running other compounds because it cant always differentiate between Test / Estrogen and the other compounds you're running if they use the normal testing methods.

 

[RoidmeDangerfield]

**Also make sure you're doing the LC/MS/MS versions of your hormone tests, particularly for Test and E2. This is even more important when running other compounds because it cant always differentiate between Test / Estrogen and the other compounds you're running if they use the normal testing methods.

This is something I wanted to talk more about. How would it really matter if my E1 or E2 is elevated if I'm going to use an AI to bring either one down? I was mentioning this in another thread and the impression I got was that if either is elevated you still treat it with an AI like aromasin or arimidex to bring high levels back down. Or if not, what am I missing?

 

[bodybuilder8806]

This is something I wanted to talk more about. How would it really matter if my E1 or E2 is elevated if I'm going to use an AI to bring either one down? I was mentioning this in another thread and the impression I got was that if either is elevated you still treat it with an AI like aromasin or arimidex to bring high levels back down. Or if not, what am I missing?

E2 is going to be the one that's most important in men and responsible for most of the physiological effects on the body. The other ones are many times less potent and not quite as important, your body will normally sort that ratio out itself from my understanding.

The main problem with not using LC/MS/MS is that the other more basic test can have a lot of variance as well, it might say your E2 is 50 when in reality it's 24 then you start thinking you need an AI and crush your E2 levels with something like Arimidex or Aromasin when Estrogen wasn't the problem.