Cardio and Fat loss

[thetribalmaster]

Adivse please, I want to start losing the fat for summer, Im not to bad -14% Bf, 200lbs, 5'11. This is my concern, I eat well and train hard 5 days a week (must confess I do little CV now rugby season is over) but as I said I want to lose some fat, but dont want to also lose to much muscle. I think I am right in saying that it is best to do CV on an empty stomach, and would ideally have a protein shake after to spare my muscle. However will my body not just use this protien as the 'readily available' source of energy instead of burning fat.

The same goes for CV after a weights session. I obviously want to consume protein straight after the wiehgts work out but will this agian prevent me buring fat and instead use the protein just consumed?

So I guess the question is when should I do the CV and when should I have protein to maximise fat lose whilst retaining as much muscle as possible?

Sorry if this doent make sense as am in middle of my exams and my head is a mess!

Cheers

 

[Bob Smith]

Do cardio whenever it fits into your schedule, in the morning will produce no greater fat loss than at any other time of day. And actually, there is anecdotal evidence that cardio on an empty stomach will actually promote muslce loss as well as some fat loss.

Get your nutrition in order, throw in some cardio and you should be good to go.

 

[thetribalmaster]

Thanks just what i wanted to hear! I can chuck in the cardio then. What about the intake of protein afterwards - get it down me?

 

[01dragonslayer]

Do cardio whenever it fits into your schedule, in the morning will produce no greater fat loss than at any other time of day. And actually, there is anecdotal evidence that cardio on an empty stomach will actually promote muslce loss as well as some fat loss.

Get your nutrition in order, throw in some cardio and you should be good to go.

Sorry Bob, but I have to disagree here. Cardio in the A.M., on an empty stomach, is by far the most effective for maximum fat loss. Lets say you wake up, eat your breakfast, eat lunch and then decide to do your cardio. All you will doing is burning the calories of the food you have already ate. If cardio is done in the A.M. BEFORE the consumption of any food your body your body realizes that there are no carbs to burn(the body naturally draws energy from carbohydrates first) and will go directly to stored fat as a means of energy.

 

[Bob Smith]

I have no problem with disagreement. But I will side with Lyle McDonald and his years of research, experience and mountainous piles of feedback from people.

 

[Freddy]

Have Bob Smith outline some interval sprints for you. That and cutting out my beer and pizza did the trick just fine for me. But I'm a whacky powerlifter...I don't know what you crazy bodybuilders are like.

 

[Bob Smith]

Gotta love Freddy's LESS pizza and beer diet. Dick, I hate people that can diet like that! lol

 

[Freddy]

thetribalmaster I just reread your post again and you say that you're already at 14% bodyfat? Whats the problem then? I'm right around there, give or take, and my abs look fine.

The problem with a lot of you recreational bodybuilders is that you don't train your core for shit, no offense. I don't know how you train, so please excuse me if I'm stereotyping you.

But you guys seem to refuse to do heavy straight legged situps 2x a week, and you guys call oblique exercises like side bends faggy.

Then you all wonder why you have to get down to 8% to see your freakin' abs. Look, they are just like any other muscle. The bigger you get them, the fatter you can be before you can't see them anymore.

And its just plain SAFER too. You get hernias from a strength imbalance that develops between your abdonimal wall and your spinal erectors. I mean, few reactional bodybuilders have really strong spinal erectors it seems like, but their core development is even worse! That is a dangerous strength imbalance. Again, I'm not saying this is the case with you, please don't take this personally...this is just something I've noticed with recreational lifters.

And also, the "it throws off your proportions" responce is lame. Most of the recreational lifters on this board know they'll never step on stage, so stop giving me that "proportions" and "symmetry" shit. You know what looks disproportionate? Lil' girly "I couldn't survive a jab to the gut" abdominals. You play rugby, so hopefully this isn't the case with you. I'm just talking in general now.

If you're at 12-14% bodyfat and can't see abs, you need to do heavy weighted straight legged situps 2-3x a week, AND side bends. I don't care how poofy you guys think you look. Getting down to a genuine, water-submersion tested 7-8% bodyfat should not be required for you guys to look good, and if it does, you need to look at your training in addition to your diet. And it lets you drink a few beers every now and then.

 

[Neodavid]

Straight legged situps? Not for abs man, not unless you just want really great leg extensors...

Maybe you do them right, but most people don't, they keep their torso straight, and that doesn't touch your abs.

Crunches man, crunches. side bends are great of course.

thetribalmaster I just reread your post again and you say that you're already at 14% bodyfat? Whats the problem then? I'm right around there, give or take, and my abs look fine.

The problem with a lot of you recreational bodybuilders is that you don't train your core for shit, no offense. I don't know how you train, so please excuse me if I'm stereotyping you.

But you guys seem to refuse to do heavy straight legged situps 2x a week, and you guys call oblique exercises like side bends faggy.

Then you all wonder why you have to get down to 8% to see your freakin' abs. Look, they are just like any other muscle. The bigger you get them, the fatter you can be before you can't see them anymore.

And its just plain SAFER too. You get hernias from a strength imbalance that develops between your abdonimal wall and your spinal erectors. I mean, few reactional bodybuilders have really strong spinal erectors it seems like, but their core development is even worse! That is a dangerous strength imbalance. Again, I'm not saying this is the case with you, please don't take this personally...this is just something I've noticed with recreational lifters.

And also, the "it throws off your proportions" responce is lame. Most of the recreational lifters on this board know they'll never step on stage, so stop giving me that "proportions" and "symmetry" shit. You know what looks disproportionate? Lil' girly "I couldn't survive a jab to the gut" abdominals. You play rugby, so hopefully this isn't the case with you. I'm just talking in general now.

If you're at 12-14% bodyfat and can't see abs, you need to do heavy weighted straight legged situps 2-3x a week, AND side bends. I don't care how poofy you guys think you look. Getting down to a genuine, water-submersion tested 7-8% bodyfat should not be required for you guys to look good, and if it does, you need to look at your training in addition to your diet. And it lets you drink a few beers every now and then.

 

[thetribalmaster]

Freedy, thanks for your response. The problem is that although by BF isnt too bad I only store fat around my bloody belly! Not very pleasant as the rest of me is lean, unlucky genetics. Unless you know a miracle cure I have to drop my BF.

What was the situation with protein intake post weights but prioir to CV (weights followed by CV). Also if I only did CV one day (stranger things have happened!) should I have a shake after the run to spare muscle or would this be used as the easy source to replacew lost energy??

Appreciated

 

[Neodavid]

Are you Norwegian? I've noticed our clan has a lot of mid body fat. We can gain a lot of weight and not look that bad, but then trying to get rid of that sub-q over the belly, man, I was down to 173 once, and STILL had no 6 pack (plenty of muscle there though... super lean all over too, just not in the belly area).

Freedy, thanks for your response. The problem is that although by BF isnt too bad I only store fat around my bloody belly! Not very pleasant as the rest of me is lean, unlucky genetics. Unless you know a miracle cure I have to drop my BF.

What was the situation with protein intake post weights but prioir to CV (weights followed by CV). Also if I only did CV one day (stranger things have happened!) should I have a shake after the run to spare muscle or would this be used as the easy source to replacew lost energy??

Appreciated

 

[Freddy]

Straight legged situps? Not for abs man, not unless you just want really great leg extensors...

Maybe you do them right, but most people don't, they keep their torso straight, and that doesn't touch your abs.

Crunches man, crunches. side bends are great of course.

This is misguided advice propogated by high school gym teachers everywhere, and its really problematic.

Crunches remove hip work from the movement almost completely, destroying your body's ability to work in concert with them. You're just going to develop another strength imbalance. I mean, its a wonder everyone on this board has hip problems.

The only time crunches should be done over straight legged situps is when you have an injured lower back, or very, very poor lower back strength. I'm sure that this is not case for the majority of people on this board. Even stabilizing lat pull downs is enough of a spinal erector workout to balance out your body enough to do S.L. sit ups.

Your hips and abs were intended to work with one another. When you "isolate" the two, you are just opening yourself up for more injuries. And if you're actively trying to AVOID hip work in order to maintain small, weak hips...you are really asking for trouble.

 

[Freddy]

Freedy, thanks for your response. The problem is that although by BF isnt too bad I only store fat around my bloody belly! Not very pleasant as the rest of me is lean, unlucky genetics. Unless you know a miracle cure I have to drop my BF.

What was the situation with protein intake post weights but prioir to CV (weights followed by CV). Also if I only did CV one day (stranger things have happened!) should I have a shake after the run to spare muscle or would this be used as the easy source to replacew lost energy??

Appreciated

What are you doing for ab work?

 

[Freddy]

This is misguided advice propogated by high school gym teachers everywhere, and its really problematic.

Crunches remove hip work from the movement almost completely, destroying your body's ability to work in concert with them. You're just going to develop another strength imbalance. I mean, its a wonder everyone on this board has hip problems.

The only time crunches should be done over straight legged situps is when you have an injured lower back, or very, very poor lower back strength. I'm sure that this is not case for the majority of people on this board. Even stabilizing lat pull downs is enough of a spinal erector workout to balance out your body enough to do S.L. sit ups.

Your hips and abs were intended to work with one another. When you "isolate" the two, you are just opening yourself up for more injuries. And if you're actively trying to AVOID hip work in order to maintain small, weak hips...you are really asking for trouble.

I came off as more of a dick then I was intending. I always try and come off as a dick, but this was a little too much. lol.

If you really think you need to do crunches, do them after your S.L. ab work, with the straight legged stuff getting the priority. Hell, at least you can be confident that the hips have been sufficiently 'pre-exhausted' to isolate the abs afterward.

 

[Neodavid]

I'm not sure it's entirely misguided, in that I can do straight legged situps all day long. Ever since I started biking, they are easy. but they didn't help my abs grow.

My abs got better when I started doing crunches.

My theory is a lot of people are different, really different, in muscle attachments, nervous system, etc.

Also, when I think of abs, I'm thinking near the top, which may be part of the difference in what we are talking about.

But you make a point for those, I know of nothing to get the lower abs, except situps. If I could take my leg extensors out of the picture somehow, I'd get a decent workout, but as it is I pump out 100 and have nothing to show for it. Hence crunches, which do the only part of my abs you can see. or... would see... if I could lose that darn 1/4 fat over them.

This is misguided advice propogated by high school gym teachers everywhere, and its really problematic.

Crunches remove hip work from the movement almost completely, destroying your body's ability to work in concert with them. You're just going to develop another strength imbalance. I mean, its a wonder everyone on this board has hip problems.

The only time crunches should be done over straight legged situps is when you have an injured lower back, or very, very poor lower back strength. I'm sure that this is not case for the majority of people on this board. Even stabilizing lat pull downs is enough of a spinal erector workout to balance out your body enough to do S.L. sit ups.

Your hips and abs were intended to work with one another. When you "isolate" the two, you are just opening yourself up for more injuries. And if you're actively trying to AVOID hip work in order to maintain small, weak hips...you are really asking for trouble.

 

[Freddy]

I'm not sure it's entirely misguided, in that I can do straight legged situps all day long. Ever since I started biking, they are easy. but they didn't help my abs grow.

My abs got better when I started doing crunches.

My theory is a lot of people are different, really different, in muscle attachments, nervous system, etc.

Also, when I think of abs, I'm thinking near the top, which may be part of the difference in what we are talking about.

But you make a point for those, I know of nothing to get the lower abs, except situps. If I could take my leg extensors out of the picture somehow, I'd get a decent workout, but as it is I pump out 100 and have nothing to show for it. Hence crunches, which do the only part of my abs you can see. or... would see... if I could lose that darn 1/4 fat over them.

Hense I said "heavy" or "weighted" straight legged situps. Would you do 100 reps of bench pressing?

EDIT: I should emphasize that I don't think crunches are bad...I think excluding heavy straight legged situps in favor of crunches is bad. You can do crunches until your hearts content after you've brutalized your hips with some SL ab work.

 

[01dragonslayer]

I have no problem with disagreement. But I will side with Lyle McDonald and his years of research, experience and mountainous piles of feedback from people.

Any links to his research????....would like to check'em out.

 

[Bob Smith]

Any links to his research????....would like to check'em out.

www.bodyrecomposition.com

 

[Neodavid]

To give you a fair shot, I'm trying that. Started weighted situps today, with 25lbs. Will work up the weight slowly, don't want to injure myself. I'll see for myself if you have it right or are full of crap (grin).

Hense I said "heavy" or "weighted" straight legged situps. Would you do 100 reps of bench pressing?

EDIT: I should emphasize that I don't think crunches are bad...I think excluding heavy straight legged situps in favor of crunches is bad. You can do crunches until your hearts content after you've brutalized your hips with some SL ab work.

 

[thetribalmaster]

Freedy could you run through the correct form for 'Weighted Straight Leg Situps'

Nice one