Chute's HRT experience!

[Chute]

Hi everybody, it seems you guys know alot about HRT from your posts so I figured you would be the ones to ask, Ill try to compress 8 months into as small as possible(Im 21, 5'9 and 200 lbs btw):


We'll basically 8 months ago I went from a happy, confident person, to a very depressed and anxious one, to the point where I had to quit working and school and become a semi-hermit. The day when this happened, was in the time period of PCT for a PH cycle which consisted of 1AD/4AD.


I started feeling depressed and anxious 3 weeks into the cycle, so I started PCT as quickly as possible and ran Nolva and 6OXO, but that never helped for some reason(was also under stress at the time). Everything was researched and it was good dosages, as I had cycled before. But the only problem was: I had only given myself 1 month between the last cycle. This may have had something to do with it.


Eventually I went to the doctor, and went around an anti-Depressant merry-go-round(Lexapro, Paxil, a Tricyclic and more) for 6 months, in which they all helped a tiny bit, but either didn't work or turned you into a zombie. Eventually I had my testosterone checked and it came back at 273 ng/dl, which is apparently very low for someone who is 21(more like an 85 year old), but not insanely low like 50 ng/dl.


Originally an endocrinologist who saw my lab reports that put me on 5g of Androgel a day. After a couple weeks my mood went up 25%, which is pretty good when your in depression. But after that it got slightly worse, maybe 20% and just stayed there. The endocrinologist has appoints every 2 months, so I talked to another doctor after 1 month on 5g Androgel. From reading, it sounds like it could have been while my natural T and artificial were both still working.


This doctor saw my lab reports and put me on injections of testosterone cypionate at 200 mg weekly and Arimidex .25mg ED. During the first month I was *very* tired, but my mood also improved to at least 50% better. I also know the testosterone is high, because after declining strength levels for many months, they are recovering now. Ive been on for a total of 5 weeks.


However, now the mood elevation has dropped to 20% and thats even with trying up to 400mg testosterone weekly which is supraphysiological range. Im taking .25 Arimidex EOD, because its expensive. Some take 4x as much. Could the levels be too high? It seems like bodybuilders who do cycles would run into problems, but they only use anti-estrogens when certain symptoms come up. Why would using much less trigger worse symptoms? Also, sex drive improved from very bad to say below average, which is good...but on up to 400mg most people(without issues) that is report a massive increase in sex drive. I was wondering if estrogen or estradiol aromatization could have something to do with it???


The main symptoms are:
Medium-grade depression(still better than before T though, but declining)
Slightly lower sex drive, but still not too bad.
Brain fog/lack of any mental clarity.
Very fatigued

All of these I had before Testosterone injections, which improved all of them except fatigue by 50%, but then dropped to slightly above baseline depression after a month or so.



It is also possible that my depression is only partially testosterone related, because the original doctor said PH probably had nothing to do with it or triggered underlying depression. Was he right? Who knows, as testosterone *did* have a pretty good effect and he's the guy running the anti-depressant merry-go-round(Currently off AD's and have been for months) Anyways, sorry for making you read so much, but it was the quickest way I could compress 8 months into a few paragraphs! Any input is very appreciated! If you need any background information feel free to ask!

 

[SPE]

I'm no doctor...

But 400mg/week is insane for HRT. Even 200mg/week is high. You say you have been seeing your endo regulary, right? What do your labs look like? How is your E2? Prolactin? TSH? LH? T3&T4? Etc...

 

[Chute]

But 400mg/week is insane for HRT. Even 200mg/week is high. You say you have been seeing your endo regulary, right? What do your labs look like? How is your E2? Prolactin? TSH? LH? T3&T4? Etc...

No, there is two months between appointments, so I saw a regular doctor in between. 400 is not HRT, but it was too test why it wasnt working. Even 200 might be too high because of aromatizing or some other issue Im not aware of.


Here's the results on Thyroid and other stuff, all these tests were before taking testosterone:

Triiodothyronine (T3) FREE
Result: 4.4 pg/mL
Reference Range: 2.3-4.2 pg/mL

TSH(dont even know what that is sorry)
Result: 2.3 mIU/L
Reference Range: 0.5-4.7 mIU/L

T4
Result: 7.0 ug/dL
Reference Range: 4.5-12.0 ug/dL

Estradiol
Result: 42pg/mL
Reference Range(Adult Male): <20-56pg/mL

Prolactin
Result: 10.8ng/mL
Reference Range(Adult Male): 2.0-15.0ng/mL

LH
Result: 3.1*mIU/mL
Reference Range: 0.8-7.6 mIU/mL

Testosterone
Result: 273
Reference: Dont have it with me but around 1200


Free T
Result: Bottom of scale, but once again dont have it with me Ill try to get a hold of it, I think the number was a "2".


Here's a reponse about it I recieved on a Thyroid Message Board:

"Your T3 isn't bad... yes a little elevated but it is because your TSH is too high.
TSH = "Thyroid Stimulating Hormone" - it is a pituitary hormone that tells your thyroid to work. When the thyroid isn't using the TSH extra floats through your blood...

Here's the deal - you COULD be hypothyroid because people without hypothyroidism have a TSH of around 1.0. I was diagnosed at 1.8. And now the new reference ranges state that anyone with a TSH of over 2.5 should be considered for treatment. Also the T4 isn't even half way in the range of normal. Most hypos feel best when both T4 and T3 are in the UPPER third of the reference range."


BTW, my number 1 symptom is definitely fatigue with a close 2nd being depression. My 2 month wait is over, so I go to the Endocrinologist tommorrow and get a blood test too. It may take a week or two but I will post the new detailed results with E2 as well as every thing else. Can elevated estrogen or other hormones cause these symptoms?

 

[ciobl]

Here's a reponse about it I recieved on a Thyroid Message Board:

"Your T3 isn't bad... yes a little elevated but it is because your TSH is too high.
TSH = "Thyroid Stimulating Hormone" - it is a pituitary hormone that tells your thyroid to work. When the thyroid isn't using the TSH extra floats through your blood...

Here's the deal - you COULD be hypothyroid because...

some experienced bros might elaborate some more but t3 looks way up there over normal range suggesting hyperthyroidism

on post https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/134235401

synthroid and armour medications were recommended.

as far as t levels go, i'll let other bros answer that for you since you have to take care of t3 first.

take care bro.

 

[mxim]

you did not stay off testosterone or other drugs for a long enough period of time to get an accurare measure. you need at least 6 months off . also,200 mgs of test a week is way too much. try 100 mgs of cyp and very small amounts of hcg in conjunction. i would start now and go through the summer,then take at least 4-6 months off and have your levels checked again. at 21,you are much too young to be on T forever unless you really need it.

 

[earthdog]

Mxim is correct. 200mg of test cypionate is a very large dose for TRT. It will probably take to you twice the normal range. In the short term you may feel ok, but in the long term you will feel like crap. Its better to get into the high-normal range and stay there. Most guys do well on 100mg per week. After about 5 weeks, levels stabilize and you are ready for another set of lab tests. You want test and free test in the high normal range, and E2 (estradiol) at mid-range. You need to specify the "sensitive" E2 test or the results are meaningless. DHT should also be in the mid-to-high range. When you've established the dose that gets you to that point, only then do you add the HCG, as two 250IU doses two days before, and the day before your cyp shot. Arimidex should only be added if there is a proven need (high E2).

I've downed more bottles of 1-AD than I could possibly remember, and several bottles of M1T. As you know 1-AD converts to 1-test. 1-test is an evil, toxic substance that causes depression and lethargy. No amount of test cyp or 4-AD is going stop it. No one really knows why it causes those effects. They don't know what the effects of 1-test are on the nervous system or other systems of the body, but hundreds of guys report the same symptoms: depression and lethargy. That indicates that 1-test is having a toxic effect somewhere in the body. You need to get off and stay off it. Flush it. I'm serious. I never thought I'd think this way, but I'm glad the feds banned it and prohormones in general.

 

[Chute]

Mxim is correct. 200mg of test cypionate is a very large dose for TRT. It will probably take to you twice the normal range. In the short term you may feel ok, but in the long term you will feel like crap. Its better to get into the high-normal range and stay there. Most guys do well on 100mg per week. After about 5 weeks, levels stabilize and you are ready for another set of lab tests. You want test and free test in the high normal range, and E2 (estradiol) at mid-range. You need to specify the "sensitive" E2 test or the results are meaningless. DHT should also be in the mid-to-high range. When you've established the dose that gets you to that point, only then do you add the HCG, as two 250IU doses two days before, and the day before your cyp shot. Arimidex should only be added if there is a proven need (high E2).

I've downed more bottles of 1-AD than I could possibly remember, and several bottles of M1T. As you know 1-AD converts to 1-test. 1-test is an evil, toxic substance that causes depression and lethargy. No amount of test cyp or 4-AD is going stop it. No one really knows why it causes those effects. They don't know what the effects of 1-test are on the nervous system or other systems of the body, but hundreds of guys report the same symptoms: depression and lethargy. That indicates that 1-test is having a toxic effect somewhere in the body. You need to get off and stay off it. Flush it. I'm serious. I never thought I'd think this way, but I'm glad the feds banned it and prohormones in general.

I agree with you about everything. You might have been confused, but I stopped cycling or ever using 1AD over 8 months ago, which may or may not have caused this illness.


The thing that leads me to believe it was caused by 1AD was that the depression, fatigue, and anxiety all hit hard within a 3 day period of cycle/post cycle on that crap. During this time I was also under stress, which may have added or somehow triggered all the problems. To clarify: after those 3 days the depression and fatigue never stopped and goes on to even right now, 8 months later. Lexapro helped slightly, but not enough for me to believe it was a serotonin related problem.



UPDATE: I went to the endo today, and he said 200mg weekly was too high, which I agreed with. But on everything else he was completely clueless. He said Arimidex is never necessary no matter how high estrogen goes, because T balances it out. He also said for his patients 270ng/dL testosterone was the "ideal" level. Another statement was "If someone is Hypogonadal, Androgel will always cure them with 5g". He didn't want to test anything except iron levels(which I agreed with cause they were slightly high)..but I insisted, so he agreed to put free test, E2, and LH on there. Anyways, I will go get another blood test with everything on it as soon as possible.


If I drop to 100mg, should I expect an depressed emotional rollercoaster for 5 weeks or so?(went from 200 to 400 back to 200 so far). Also, how much Arimidex should I take at this dosage if any, and why the HCG...maybe 50mg testosterone injected 2x a week would solve that? Thanks, if anyone has any input they would like to share including my original post lemme know.

 

[Chute]

you did not stay off testosterone or other drugs for a long enough period of time to get an accurare measure. you need at least 6 months off . also,200 mgs of test a week is way too much. try 100 mgs of cyp and very small amounts of hcg in conjunction. i would start now and go through the summer,then take at least 4-6 months off and have your levels checked again. at 21,you are much too young to be on T forever unless you really need it.

I agree about trying 100mg. As far as going off because my young age, my strength dropped every week for 6 straight months when I wasn't on anything, and this was with my natural testosterone. It tested at 273ng/dL after being off PH's for 6 months, so chances are thats probably what it will go back to.

 

[ciobl]

UPDATE: I went to the endo today, and he said 200mg weekly was too high, which I agreed with. But on everything else he was completely clueless. He said Arimidex is never necessary no matter how high estrogen goes, because T balances it out.

you might want to consider finding a new doctor on the link below:

Finding a new Dr.

you can always print the procedures Dr Crisler uses and give it to your doc:

Testosterone Replacement Therapy - A Recipe for Success - MESO-Rx

My Current Best Thoughts on How to Administer Testosterone Replacement Therapy (TRT) for Men We have already learned a practical bit about the various

thinksteroids.com

take care bro

 

[pmgamer18]

I agree with you about everything. You might have been confused, but I stopped cycling or ever using 1AD over 8 months ago, which may or may not have caused this illness.


The thing that leads me to believe it was caused by 1AD was that the depression, fatigue, and anxiety all hit hard within a 3 day period of cycle/post cycle on that crap. During this time I was also under stress, which may have added or somehow triggered all the problems. To clarify: after those 3 days the depression and fatigue never stopped and goes on to even right now, 8 months later. Lexapro helped slightly, but not enough for me to believe it was a serotonin related problem.



UPDATE: I went to the endo today, and he said 200mg weekly was too high, which I agreed with. But on everything else he was completely clueless. He said Arimidex is never necessary no matter how high estrogen goes, because T balances it out. He also said for his patients 270ng/dL testosterone was the "ideal" level. Another statement was "If someone is Hypogonadal, Androgel will always cure them with 5g". He didn't want to test anything except iron levels(which I agreed with cause they were slightly high)..but I insisted, so he agreed to put free test, E2, and LH on there. Anyways, I will go get another blood test with everything on it as soon as possible.


If I drop to 100mg, should I expect an depressed emotional rollercoaster for 5 weeks or so?(went from 200 to 400 back to 200 so far). Also, how much Arimidex should I take at this dosage if any, and why the HCG...maybe 50mg testosterone injected 2x a week would solve that? Thanks, if anyone has any input they would like to share including my original post lemme know.

First stop taking the Arimidex I will bet you are to low on your E2. Find a new Dr. any Dr. that feels a level that low is normal does not know what he is doing when it comes to TRT.
If after you get down to 100 mgs/week and feel better your going to feel bad for a few weeks. So don't mess around just do it.
If after you have been on 100 mg. a week shot of T get tested and if you find you E2 is to high then try Indooplex/DIM it works better and is OTC.
Phil

 

[greyowl]

QUOTE=pmgamer18] UPDATE: I went to the endo today, and he said 200mg weekly was too high, which I agreed with. But on everything else he was completely clueless. He said Arimidex is never necessary no matter how high estrogen goes, because T balances it out. He also said for his patients 270ng/dL testosterone was the "ideal" level. Another statement was "If someone is Hypogonadal, Androgel will always cure them with 5g". He didn't want to test anything except iron levels(which I agreed with cause they were slightly high)..but I insisted, so he agreed to put free test, E2, and LH on there. Anyways, I will go get another blood test with everything on it as soon as possible.


If I drop to 100mg, should I expect an depressed emotional rollercoaster for 5 weeks or so?(went from 200 to 400 back to 200 so far). Also, how much Arimidex should I take at this dosage if any, and why the HCG...maybe 50mg testosterone injected 2x a week would solve that? Thanks, if anyone has any input they would like to share including my original post lemme know.[/QUOTE]

I think you should listen to mxmin.

As somebody who's been a bit of a pioneer in terms of getting HRT, my advice to you is to get off this merry-go-round of different dosages of hormones. I think the best thing you can do for yourself is to stop taking testosterone, stop doing HRT altogether, and take the time to let your hormone levels return to normal by themselves.

You're 21 and apparently in good health -- there's no reason for you to take test. I'm certain your test levels were fine before you starting ingesting hormones -- you drove them down yourself when you went on cycle for the first time. Had you stopped there and let your hormone levels return to normal by themselves, this all would have been over by now. Instead, you decided to turn your body into a chemistry set by shopping for TRT docs like my girlfriend shops for shoes.

The longer you stay on test, and the more you vary the dose from one month to the next, the more you suppress your body's testosterone production axis, and the harder it you make it for your body to re-establish hormonal equilibrium on its own.

HRT is for hypogondal men -- men whose test levels are well below par permanently. Do you want to be dependent on test injections for the rest of your life? If you don't stop HRT, that's what will happen to you.

If you're not prepared to let nature take its course, then do some research about various protocols that have been developed to reverse cases such as yours of symptomatic hypogonadism induced by the improper use of hormones. Clomid therapy comes to mind, and I've personally experienced excellent results from a two-month, high-dose cycle of arimidex. But in no case should you try this unless you're prepared to put yourself in the care of a physician who has experience in using meds to reverse steroid-induced hypogondism.

 

[Chute]

I think you should listen to mxmin.

As somebody who's been a bit of a pioneer in terms of getting HRT, my advice to you is to get off this merry-go-round of different dosages of hormones. I think the best thing you can do for yourself is to stop taking testosterone, stop doing HRT altogether, and take the time to let your hormone levels return to normal by themselves.

You're 21 and apparently in good health -- there's no reason for you to take test. I'm certain your test levels were fine before you starting ingesting hormones -- you drove them down yourself when you went on cycle for the first time. Had you stopped there and let your hormone levels return to normal by themselves, this all would have been over by now. Instead, you decided to turn your body into a chemistry set by shopping for TRT docs like my girlfriend shops for shoes.

The longer you stay on test, and the more you vary the dose from one month to the next, the more you suppress your body's testosterone production axis, and the harder it you make it for your body to re-establish hormonal equilibrium on its own.

HRT is for hypogondal men -- men whose test levels are well below par permanently. Do you want to be dependent on test injections for the rest of your life? If you don't stop HRT, that's what will happen to you.

If you're not prepared to let nature take its course, then do some research about various protocols that have been developed to reverse cases such as yours of symptomatic hypogonadism induced by the improper use of hormones. Clomid therapy comes to mind, and I've personally experienced excellent results from a two-month, high-dose cycle of arimidex. But in no case should you try this unless you're prepared to put yourself in the care of a physician who has experience in using meds to reverse steroid-induced hypogondism.

I would agree with, except for the fact that after that original PH, I stayed off everything and never wanted to go back on again, but even after 6 months, I was feeling slightly worse than after the cycle. My level was tested at 270ng/dl. BTW, I already cut the dosage in half like you guys recommended, it will stay that way. As far as being in good health, not really at least mentally. When your mentally shattered, you dont really care what your body looks like, you just want to get better.


If it really possible to have all my hormones(which I dont even know is causing the depression, but probably) just correct themselves naturally and lack of using anything, I would love to do that. I tried that for 6 months already, should I try it for a year this time? What if it doesn't work again? I read of someone else trying Clomid(Krom), and as soon they stopped the benefits went away just like stopping TRT does.


My doctor is doing phone consultations and he does alot of his patients through the internet, he seems to know somewhat about TRT(unlike the endo) but not as much as Swale and some of the other people here do.

 

[pmgamer18]

Greyowl is giving you some dam good advice if you were not suffering from Hypogonadism before doing that crap you should stop doing everything and let you body repair it's self. Hopefully you will go back to normal. It will not be easy but it will be a lot easier then being on TRT for the rest of your life.
Phil

 

[dj75]

I would agree with, except for the fact that after that original PH, I stayed off everything and never wanted to go back on again, but even after 6 months, I was feeling slightly worse than after the cycle. My level was tested at 270ng/dl. BTW, I already cut the dosage in half like you guys recommended, it will stay that way. As far as being in good health, not really at least mentally. When your mentally shattered, you dont really care what your body looks like, you just want to get better.


If it really possible to have all my hormones(which I dont even know is causing the depression, but probably) just correct themselves naturally and lack of using anything, I would love to do that. I tried that for 6 months already, should I try it for a year this time? What if it doesn't work again? I read of someone else trying Clomid(Krom), and as soon they stopped the benefits went away just like stopping TRT does.


My doctor is doing phone consultations and he does alot of his patients through the internet, he seems to know somewhat about TRT(unlike the endo) but not as much as Swale and some of the other people here do.

Chute, Wait it out........i too, took prohormones that lower my testosterone......it will take time but it will come back.......i know you feel like shit.....so did i.....but wait it out.........your mind is probably going in a million directions....... but try and relax....that the best thing you can do right now.....your body will bounce back......Ive gone from:
it will take time........maybe a year for me to get back to normal......but my doctors have given me confirence that it will.........I;ve been thru an MRI, Testicular Altrasound, and Biopsi
i'm in consuling and acupuntcher
260-1000
TT - 178
TT - 325
TT - 365

In a matter of about four months.......and my LH is rising
Range 1.5-9.5
1.8
4.5
6.5

Wait it out

 

[ciobl]

If it really possible to have all my hormones(which I dont even know is causing the depression, but probably) just correct themselves naturally and lack of using anything, I would love to do that. I tried that for 6 months already, should I try it for a year this time? What if it doesn't work again? I read of someone else trying Clomid(Krom), and as soon they stopped the benefits went away just like stopping TRT does.

Chute bro, what makes you think we have not been in the same position you are going through right at this minute ?

when you said:"should I try for a year this time?. what if it doesn't work again?"

let me copy what greyowl said:

But in no case should you try this unless you're prepared to put yourself in the care of a physician who has experience in using meds to reverse steroid-induced hypogondism.

in the meantime, print that advice and make copies, keep one in your wallet, one in your room, one in your car, everywhere !!!!! and wait damn it.

I am sorry if i may sound harsh but remember we all have been in your shoes.

just listen...and one day....you might say to yourself: "those bros at meso wanted the best for me."

 

[Chute]

Chute bro, what makes you think we have not been in the same position you are going through right at this minute ?

when you said:"should I try for a year this time?. what if it doesn't work again?"

let me copy what greyowl said:



in the meantime, print that advice and make copies, keep one in your wallet, one in your room, one in your car, everywhere !!!!! and wait damn it.

I am sorry if i may sound harsh but remember we all have been in your shoes.

just listen...and one day....you might say to yourself: "those bros at meso wanted the best for me."

I believe 100% that everyone here is trying to help me and vice-versa. I dont think anyone is out to get me, and main reason people are even here in the first place is to help. Also, the doctor Im dealing fits the exact description your describing, but maybe not as knowledgeable as some here.


That said, I cut the dosage down to 100mg, and am doing blood tests...dont you think I should give it 5 weeks till all the levels even out before calling it quits? I want to make sure the T, E2 and other levels aren't out of whack, before calling it a failure, as it *did* improve my symptoms in the first month.


Also, did your use of hormones cause severe depression, fatigue, and mental fog for the whole year? Or did it gradually get better? The reason I ask this is because for me it got slightly worse.

 

[Chute]

Ok everybody, here are the new numbers:


Testosterone Total:
672 ng/dL
Reference range: 241-827 ng/dL

Free T:
2.97 ng/dL
Reference range: 0.95-4.30 ng/dL

Estradiol:
47 pg/mL
Reference range(Adult Male): 20-56 pg/mL


LH:
<0.1, which is expected considering Im on exogenous T. This blood test was taken on the 6th day after a 400mg testosterone cypionate shot(which has since been lowered to 100mg on the advice from members). I will get another more comprehensive test next week.


My original numbers(before testosterone) were:

Testosterone Total: 274 ng/dL

Free Testosterone: .95 ng/dL

Estradiol: 42 pg/mL

LH: 3.1 mIU/mL



Im still havin alot of problems unfortunately, so if anyone see's somethin funny or wants more background information, feel free to ask!

 

[SWALE]

IMPO, your initial test cyp dosing was twice what it should have been. And there is no way to predict you will need Arimidex without labs to prove it.

Another victim of OTC PH's!

I am sorry to say this Endo is pretty clueless. But that is pretty much a pattern with them. AND you cannot get them to learn about it.

 

[dj75]

Also, did your use of hormones cause severe depression, fatigue, and mental fog for the whole year? Or did it gradually get better? The reason I ask this is because for me it got slightly worse.[/QUOTE]


Of course it did (its been only 6 months).........(and i did not even finish the bottle of MAG10) Took Wellbutrin for about 2 weeks then just trashed it.......i'm going to get thru this no matter what...........without TRT......our bodies can get back to normal......if we just keep them clean.......Granted it may take awhile....A very long while.....but if you eat well and work-out (i know it's hard cause you are tiered) get plenty of rest......you should bounce back......

And to be honest with you in my opinion (sex drive) is all in you mind....and right now your mind if playing tricks on you.........(like it has to me)...

Swale is right when it comes to sex we set the bar way to high.........what is normal sex drive.......not 3 times a day every day......(its good) but it's not normal........I though to have normal sex drive i had to have sex everyday.......and 10 minuts after i had sex .........i had to do it again just to prove to myself that i could.......and at that time my testosterone was 200.....and having sex everyday......

in short........wait it out at least 1 year

 

[dj75]

Also, did your use of hormones cause severe depression, fatigue, and mental fog for the whole year? Or did it gradually get better? The reason I ask this is because for me it got slightly worse.

Of course it did (its been only 6 months).........(and i did not even finish the bottle of MAG10) Took Wellbutrin for about 2 weeks then just trashed it.......i'm going to get thru this no matter what...........without TRT......our bodies can get back to normal......if we just keep them clean.......Granted it may take awhile....A very long while.....but if you eat well and work-out (i know it's hard cause you are tiered) get plenty of rest......you should bounce back......

And to be honest with you in my opinion (sex drive) is all in you mind....and right now your mind if playing tricks on you.........(like it has to me)...

Swale is right when it comes to sex we set the bar way to high.........what is normal sex drive.......not 3 times a day every day......(its good) but it's not normal........I though to have normal sex drive i had to have sex everyday.......and 10 minuts after i had sex .........i had to do it again just to prove to myself that i could.......and at that time my testosterone was 200.....and having sex everyday......

in short........wait it out at least 1 year[/QUOTE]

i'ts been 5 months.........and it my take another 5 months...... but the doctors have reassured me that its on the rise........(test show that) ots in black and white.......

I have gone to a very prominant uro in NYC (Columbia-Presbyterian)......He has costed me about $600 for 2 visits (he does not accept insurance)....... He administers HRT and told me the following:

My LH is coming back but it will take some time for my testosterone to catch up in the blood and start circulating......

He would not give me clomid unless my test was at about 200.....he said anything over 300 the clomid would only cause a temporary rise.......

He works with a lot of Steroid users who have testosterone levels of 50, 75, 100......and even then he will try and start their own production with clomid and HCG..........before TRT.......

he is open to giving me TRT (only if he did not see the rise in my levels)....Of course i want to make my own........so i will wait......and see

So i will see him in three months........for more blood work to see if i have continued the rise

Also told me if i lose wait (I'm 5'-10" and 230#) and excercise my testosterone will continue to rise.....
what kind of rise can i expect with a 10-15# weight lose.......Also I have just
recently found out that my GF is pregant......So i was a bit stressed when I took my latest blood work........