CNS Fatigue

[Girth]

I ask this question as more of a public service announcement than anything. I'm of the mind that the CNS is a bigger factor in gym performance than muscle condition. With that said, what is it that causes the most CNS fatigue.

1. higher volume of not to failure sets.
2. training to failure
3. consecutive days in the gym

I'm not going to say whose right or wrong here, but I just want to point out that many people train EOD in order to recuperate their CNS, not just their muscles. I too have found that I am fresher mentally when I train EOD as opposed to a 2 on 1 off, even though the volume total is the same in both routines.

Then again, you have Olympic and Metal Melitia trainers who are in there 6 days a week, twice a day, for hours at a time. What is it that these high volume, high frequency, high intensity trainers, are doing to prevent CNS burnout? I'm sure it's not just genetics.

 

[chiseled21]

In my opinion it is a combination of CNS, muscle soreness, lactic acid build-up, and depletion of glycogen stores. I cannot fathom how some people can workout everyday and actually get somewhere(although i used to all the time in the beginnnig). There is no way for me to do an all out leg workout on Monday and expect to get a all out upper body workout on Tuesday. It used to piss me off that my max bench would vary week to week. But when I examined it closer it had to do with the overall workload I had put my body through on the previouss 2 days and the amount of calories consumed.

 

[MANWHORE]

that's easy ... shorten your workouts,stop staying in the gym for 2hrs and you can train more days per week .. Marathon trainees can't train 7 days per week but the rest of us can ... Mike Mentzer always said INTENSE BRIEF and INFREQUENT .. well i say INTENSE BRIEF and FREQUENT. .. If you are getting stronger,you are not overtraining. ...

 

[AnimalMass]

I think consistent maxing out the same movements for several weeks in a row is the best way to burn out CNS.

Also, I have trouble if I go two really hard days in a row.

Also, training to complete muscular failure will do it in a hurry.

The point to remember is that at times we want our CNS burned out a bit (that's what intense loading is) - but then you have to back off for a week or two and allow yourself time to recover.

Also, Manwhore, Phreezer and I trained together the other night and we were box squatting. I worked up to over 600 and he worked up to nearly 700. Guys like us just can't get in a training session in under 2 hours anymore. If you squat 315, then sure, you can get in in an hour - but not if you squat 700, and then have to do some pulling, gluter hams, hypers, abs, and calves. - It takes well over an hour just to squat...

For example...

barx10, barx10, 95x8, 135x5, 225x5, 315x5, 405x3, 495x2, 545x1, 585x1, 635x1 - That takes over an hour when you are training with 3-4 different people (which most strength athletes are). 11 sets of squats - that's one set every 5 minutes - we probably take less rest int he beginning and a little more in the end.

Matt

 

[Madcow2]

With that said, what is it that causes the most CNS fatigue.

1. higher volume of not to failure sets.
2. training to failure
3. consecutive days in the gym

It's about balance and conditioning. No factor can be held in isolation. You can squat a set of 5 at 25% every single day, probably multiple times a day indefinitely (high frequency and volume but low intensity - think about walking and how often you do that). You can do a few sets of 5 at 85% once a week (high intensity - relatively anyway, but low volume and frequency) but doing it multiple times per week might be stimulative at first and then begin to make serious inroads as fatigue catches up (this is the periodized 5x5 which tend to drive most people into overreaching in that timeframe). It's all a relationship and a total workload put up against the tolerances of a specific individual. What is very taxing to you might well be a walk in the park and sustainable indefinitely for an elite weightlifter.

Obviously workload held equal, training to failure will be more taxing to the system due to the rate coding spike the nervous system must generate to offset fatigue. And this is why HIT tends to default to low volume and low frequency (not that this is right or wrong but merely a very obvious offset to programming if one trains to failure with high frequency and moderate intensity (%1RM)).

Complete days off from training are also restorative. Undulating loads factor in too (heavy, light, medium days). Obviously it takes years to build up to the kind of conditioning you see in elite weightlifters but those primary movements also lack an eccentric portion, are done dynamically rather than grinding power lifts at 90-100%, and their programming takes all of this into account to achieve the balance that allows for the desired variables to be stressed.

 

[Girth]

Good topic it would seem, as it garnered some great replys. It even brought MC2 out of hiding. Welcome back. Always love to see your detailed posts. I think AM hit it for me however. It's always that second day that I'm toasted.

I appreciate everyone's feedback, and hopefully this makes others think a bit more about the detail of their program. Granted, overanalyzation is my forte/downfall. But most seem to have the mentality that they will have bad days at the gym, and that's just that. I however think there is a reason for said bad performances. And provided you are committed to living your life outside of the gym conducively to productive workouts, perhaps your program failed you, and not your "bad luck".

 

[Madcow2]

As far as bad performances, consider that things are relative. You will always have bad days because they follow a distribution (i.e. your average day might be tons better and more controllable than some nitwit's but you will have above and below days also). The idea is to be accountable and have everything in check mentally and physically. Everyone misses, but the goal is to leave as little to chance as possible. What you'll find is that the varriance gets a lot smaller and by attention to detail, motivation, and momentum you will be able to pull it out when you need it (winning is a skill, as is dealing with adversity, hanging in there, and coming up big when the chips are down and you need it).