MR. RUSSERT: And we are back and joined by the two congressmen who will lead hearings this week into steroids and baseball: Chairman Tom Davis, ranking Democrat Henry Waxman.
Welcome both.
REP. HENRY WAXMAN, (D-CA): Thank you.
REP. TOM DAVIS, (R-VA): Thank you.
MR. RUSSERT: Chairman Davis, you have subpoenaed seven major-league baseball players, present or former. How many are showing up?
REP. DAVIS: We expect them all to show up.
MR. RUSSERT: All?
REP. DAVIS: We expect them to. That's what the subpoenas--now we're going to meet and there may be one who gets an excuse here or there, but we expect them all to be or we're ready to vote out of contempt resolution.
MR. RUSSERT: Vote a contempt of Congress resolution out of the committee?
REP. DAVIS: Absolutely. These people are not above the law. You know, they may fly in private planes and make millions of dollars and be on baseball cards, but a subpoena is exactly what it says it is. They have to appear.
MR. RUSSERT: Will it be approved by the committee?
REP. DAVIS: Of course.
MR. RUSSERT: And it will then go to the full House?
REP. DAVIS: Correct. I expect it to be approved by a very wide margin there.
MR. RUSSERT: How wide?
REP. DAVIS: Very wide, 350, 375 votes.
MR. RUSSERT: In favor of contempt of Congress?
REP. DAVIS: Of course.
MR. RUSSERT: And then where does it go?
REP. DAVIS: It goes to the courts of enforcement.
MR. RUSSERT: And what does that mean?
REP. DAVIS: That could mean they're in contempt, which is a fine or it could be jail sentence.
MR. RUSSERT: Do you agree?
REP. WAXMAN: Well, that's what it could ultimately come to, but I hope it doesn't because I think it's important to have an investigation of steroids in major-league baseball. To me the shocking thing is that baseball doesn't seem to have been much concerned about all the steroid stories about their players over the last 10 years. We shouldn't be doing these hearings. They should have been doing these hearings and for a number of reasons. One, the integrity of the game is at stake, but from my point of view, the most serious problem is that it permeates to our kids that using steroids to be better athletes is socially acceptable and they're under a competitive disadvantage if they don't do it. So if you look at the last 10 years, it used to be one out of every 45 kids use steroids. Now, it's one out of 16. That's 500,000 kids that are using steroids. That's a real serious threat to their health. And it's also a message that shooting is acceptable.
MR. RUSSERT: Would you agree with Chairman Davis, if the players do not show up, both the committee and the full House will hold them in contempt of Congress?
REP. WAXMAN: Well, we'll have no other choice but to pursue the ability to enforce our subpoenas, but I hope it doesn't come to that.
MR. RUSSERT: There's been a lot of discussion of your posturing in this particular situation. Congress Paul Kanjorski, who's on your committee, said this to the Philadelphia Inquirer. "I'm astounded. ... I think there's been a total failure to justify why these subpoenas are necessary. It appears to be a publicity stunt. ... To spend our time calling seven baseball players--maybe I've missed something, but is this the most important issue in the United States today? ... I've received no analysis or evidence that it is. ... I served as a page here 50 years ago during the McCarthy hearings. I was here when Nixon used subpoena power. I know how destructive they can be. What are we looking for? Until [the committee] proves there's a public crisis, it doesn't warrant even a committee hearing, no less the issuing of subpoenas."
REP. DAVIS: It is a public health crisis and our testimony from medical experts is going to show this. We have the parents of kids who have used steroids and committed suicide. Over a half a million youth are using steroids, and these major-league players are their idols. Major-league baseball has not come down hard on this. Players have not been out there denouncing it. The policy that they have, we're going to find out at the hearing--we're going to investigate it--but it's not what they say it is at this point and I think the public demands action on this.
MR. RUSSERT: Stanley Brand, an attorney for the major-league baseball and Players Association, is saying that this is beyond your committee's authority and that it is prying into the privacy of these American citizens, the baseball players.
REP. WAXMAN: Well, we wrote a--Chairman Davis and I wrote an extensive letter to Stan Brand, the attorney for baseball, explaining to him why it was within the jurisdiction of our committee. The rules provide for it, but if you just look at the fact that they're violating the Controlled Substances Act, which Congress passed in 1991, they're violating baseball's own rules against using steroids and yet steroid use is increasing. We ought to find out at the minimum why federal laws aren't being enforced adequately or what changes in the law ought to be made. That alone justifies our jurisdiction.
But what strikes me is that baseball doesn't want to investigate it and they don't want us to investigate it. It seems to me that they've had a "don't know, don't tell" policy for the last 10 years. They said that there's a problem but they don't know who's involved, how it happened, but they're going to put something in place that will fix it. In your business, when CBS made a serious mistake about President Bush's service record, they changed their policy but they did it after they had an independent investigation. Baseball doesn't want any investigation of this issue.
MR. RUSSERT: Chairman Davis, in terms of the people who have been subpoenaed, why Sammy Sosa, Mark McGwire?
REP. DAVIS: Well, they've been named. I mean, they have been accused by former colleagues of having used drugs at this point. In one case, we've had players who have said they want to be able to come up and set the record straight. But there have been public accusations about these players. They've set records. There is, I think, a widespread feeling that maybe they cheated their way to achieving these records by using illegal drugs.
MR. RUSSERT: Rafael Palmeiro has been cited by only one person, Jose Canseco.
REP. DAVIS: And he's said he would like to come and refute that under oath. We're gonna give him that opportunity.
MR. RUSSERT: Palmeiro's coming?
REP. DAVIS: Well, we've asked him to come.
MR. RUSSERT: Isn't there a problem, though, if just one person, like Canseco, who has a long rap sheet, makes a comment about, well, someone like Rafael Palmeiro, he comes before your committee and takes the oath, it gives the suggestion that he did something wrong, or if he doesn't come, the suggestion that he did something wrong, when only one person has accused him.
REP. DAVIS: Well, you have colleagues. I mean, you have people that serve together. This is something baseball has just ignored over the last decade while it's been going on, records have been being set and they've been breaking attendance records. You now have not just Canseco, you have grand jury testimony in a number of cases. The more that we find out about this, the wider spread it appears to have been. We're going to allow members to come and set the record straight.
MR. RUSSERT: Jason Giambi of the New York Yankees has already testified before a grand jury. If he comes before your committee and you grant him immunity, won't that interfere with the criminal justice process?
REP. WAXMAN: Well, the grand jury is not looking at him. The grand jury is looking at BALCO, and we don't think it's going to. And, of course, before an immunity would be granted, we'd be checking this out. In fact, we've already started checking it out with the Justice Department. The purpose of this hearing is not to go after any individual player or to put them in legal jeopardy. The purpose of this hearing is to get the facts. You can't have a hearing about baseball without the players being involved. We have baseball, the baseball union, and we should have the players. We have medical people. We need to look at this from different aspects. It's a problem that needs to be investigated, and we're going to do it.
MR. RUSSERT: Why aren't you bringing in the baseball owners?
REP. WAXMAN: We are bringing the baseball commission which represents the baseball owners.
MR. RUSSERT: But there is suggestion that some of the owners look the other way, some teams may have altered contracts and turned a blind eye.
REP. DAVIS: Tim, we're bringing in some managers. One of the leaders there in the Oakland A's at the time all this was going on is coming. He's now a baseball executive. So we're going--we're looking at it from that aspect. You can't have everybody in one hearing. We're just trying to set a framework here. What we'd like baseball to do is admit they have a problem, show what they are doing to fix it, and make sure that we can set the record straight for young people. This is bad. This is bad for their health and it's bad for the kids.
MR. RUSSERT: Will every player that's called be given immunity from prosecution?
REP. DAVIS: No.
MR. RUSSERT: They won't?
REP. DAVIS: Some have--we have in one case, one player has said that they don't want immunity. They're ready to come and testify.
MR. RUSSERT: But anyone who asks, it will be granted?
REP. DAVIS: Not necessarily.
REP. WAXMAN: Well, we're still looking at that and still discussing it.
MR. RUSSERT: Dave Anderson of The New York Times--very respected sports writer--wrote this on Friday: "Without Bonds, Hearing Loses Much of Its Power. For all the questions being raised in the skirmish between a Congressional committee and a and Major League Baseball over most of the subpoenas issued for Thursday's real opening day - the scheduled hearing in Washington on steroids in baseball - perhaps the most important question has been raked under the infield dirt: Why wasn't Barry Bonds subpoenaed? ...Since Bonds is the symbol of suspected steroid use in baseball, a hearing without his testimony, whatever it may be, loses some, if not most, of its credibility. Without issuing a subpoena for Bonds, the committee is giving him an intentional walk."
How do you respond?
REP. DAVIS: Well, there are a lot of reasons why people are on or off the list, including the BALCO investigation in San Francisco, but including the fact that we didn't want to make this about one player. The problem of steroids has been systematic throughout baseball. You bring Bonds in, it's going to be just about Barry Bonds. It's more widespread than that.
MR. RUSSERT: But if you have Giambi and Palmeiro and McGwire and Sosa, it's not just about one player. Why...
REP. DAVIS: There are a lot of factors that go into this, including other investigations going on in terms of who we asked and who we didn't call.
MR. RUSSERT: So with Barry Bonds, your concern is the granting of immunity?
REP. DAVIS: I didn't say that. I think there are a lot of factors that go in that decided not to go with Bonds.
MR. RUSSERT: But as you know, Congressman Waxman, baseball fans are watching Barry Bonds close in on the home run record of Babe Ruth and Henry Aaron. Why not bring him before your committee and ask him straight up, "Did you ever take steroids?"
REP. WAXMAN: Well, he may come before us at some future hearing. This may not be the last hearing we hold on this subject. Depends how much we learn on Thursday, and, of course, if people don't even want to come in, refuse, snub their nose at the Congress, then we're going to have another hearing at least.
But the important point is not any one player. The important point is the widespread use of steroids by baseball players and other athletes, and what changes in the law we might need and how we can stop this signal to the kids that they have to take steroids to be athletes and be competitive. High school kids are told if they want a scholarship, they better take steroids.
MR. RUSSERT: Who says that?
REP. WAXMAN: Well, that's the whole lineup. If your professionals, your competitors take steroids, you're at a competitive disadvantage. If you're in college, you want to go into the pros, you feel like you have to take steroids. And then high school kids are--get the sense that if they want scholarships, to be good athletes, they better take steroids. It forces them. It's a pressure on them. And then on the other side of it is it becomes socially acceptable. Baseball and other sports have made it acceptable for people to use steroids to enhance their performance, which also means they're cheating in order to win.
MR. RUSSERT: How widespread do you think this problem is?
REP. DAVIS: Well, there's no question it's been very widespread. Now that baseball is starting testing, we'll be getting some of the test results. We don't want to know who passed and who failed, but we need to know, you know, what the numbers are. We'll get, I think, a better handle on it.
MR. RUSSERT: Are you satisfied with the new policy put in place by major-league baseball?
REP. DAVIS: Not at all. I mean, we don't know what the policy is. We've asked for it two weeks ago and we have yet to receive it. The subpoena calls for their delivery on Monday at noon. And I think we'll have more to say after we see it.
REP. WAXMAN: That's one of the subjects of the hearing. Baseball says they have a new policy. They couldn't do anything before because they had collective bargaining agreements. That's their argument. But they say they have a new policy. Well, I've heard through the grapevine that some people think you have to be an idiot to ever get caught under that new policy. This business of saying that they have a consent decree and that's the reason we should understand that they didn't do anything strikes me as ridiculous. Steinbrenner said that he doesn't want players with long hair and beards and so there are no players with long hair and bears. That's not part of the collective bargaining agreement. He just said that's a priority of the Yankees. Why hasn't he and other owners say it's a priority not to use steroids? We can't test everybody randomly. But if you've got a suspicion that somebody has been using steroids, and it's against the rules of baseball, can they sit back and say they've done nothing, they don't need to do anything, they can't do anything? That seems to me absurd.
MR. RUSSERT: Will you call Mr. Steinbrenner?
REP. WAXMAN: Well, I'm not interested in his policy about long hair and beards. I'm interested in knowing why they all observe that policy at the Yankees and other owners can't use that kind of example and say, "This is it. This is not going to be permitted." And the message is clear that steroid use is not going to be accepted either by the Yankees or any other baseball team.
MR. RUSSERT: If baseball does not cooperate, might it lose its antitrust exemption?
REP. DAVIS: Well, I don't think we're there yet. Just as we're not there sending to jail. But ultimately when you push this out, they not only enjoy antitrust exemptions, they enjoy a lot of tax exemptions in terms of depreciation of players and so on. They're advantageous to the business of baseball. You have to remember the BALCO hearings, and the grand jury investigation talks about masking agents, ways that you can get around the traditional tests, as well. That's something we need to look at. Is there a lot of ways that you can continue to use steroids and avoid testing?
MR. RUSSERT: What authority does your committee have? Could you look into drugs in Hollywood, drugs in the music business? How widespread do you feel you can go?
REP. DAVIS: Rule 10, Clause 4C2 gives us the ability to hold a hearing on any matter at any time. We're the major investigatory committee of Congress. We don't abuse it. We didn't issue any subpoenas for the last two years. Henry and I worked together in a bipartisan fashion to decide what we'll do. But this is a serious problem. Kids are dying from the use of steroids. They're looking up to these major- league leaders in terms of the enhancements that they're using. And we have to stop it.
MR. RUSSERT: What about football, basketball? Any other sports?
REP. WAXMAN: Well, I think it's a problem in all of these sports, and maybe one thing we ought to look at is one standard for all of the athletic teams. Maybe the Olympic standard. That is one that seems to be taking hold and the message is very clear. The standard that baseball is telling us they're going to put into place and we don't know exactly what all the details are, but they're saying you'll be suspended for 10 days if you're using steroids. Well, is that tough enough? I don't know.
MR. RUSSERT: Again, you're confident that several players will show up on Thursday?
REP. DAVIS: Of course.
MR. RUSSERT: We'll be watching. Chairman Tom Davis, ranking member Henry Waxman, thank you very much.
REP. WAXMAN: Thank you.
Welcome both.
REP. HENRY WAXMAN, (D-CA): Thank you.
REP. TOM DAVIS, (R-VA): Thank you.
MR. RUSSERT: Chairman Davis, you have subpoenaed seven major-league baseball players, present or former. How many are showing up?
REP. DAVIS: We expect them all to show up.
MR. RUSSERT: All?
REP. DAVIS: We expect them to. That's what the subpoenas--now we're going to meet and there may be one who gets an excuse here or there, but we expect them all to be or we're ready to vote out of contempt resolution.
MR. RUSSERT: Vote a contempt of Congress resolution out of the committee?
REP. DAVIS: Absolutely. These people are not above the law. You know, they may fly in private planes and make millions of dollars and be on baseball cards, but a subpoena is exactly what it says it is. They have to appear.
MR. RUSSERT: Will it be approved by the committee?
REP. DAVIS: Of course.
MR. RUSSERT: And it will then go to the full House?
REP. DAVIS: Correct. I expect it to be approved by a very wide margin there.
MR. RUSSERT: How wide?
REP. DAVIS: Very wide, 350, 375 votes.
MR. RUSSERT: In favor of contempt of Congress?
REP. DAVIS: Of course.
MR. RUSSERT: And then where does it go?
REP. DAVIS: It goes to the courts of enforcement.
MR. RUSSERT: And what does that mean?
REP. DAVIS: That could mean they're in contempt, which is a fine or it could be jail sentence.
MR. RUSSERT: Do you agree?
REP. WAXMAN: Well, that's what it could ultimately come to, but I hope it doesn't because I think it's important to have an investigation of steroids in major-league baseball. To me the shocking thing is that baseball doesn't seem to have been much concerned about all the steroid stories about their players over the last 10 years. We shouldn't be doing these hearings. They should have been doing these hearings and for a number of reasons. One, the integrity of the game is at stake, but from my point of view, the most serious problem is that it permeates to our kids that using steroids to be better athletes is socially acceptable and they're under a competitive disadvantage if they don't do it. So if you look at the last 10 years, it used to be one out of every 45 kids use steroids. Now, it's one out of 16. That's 500,000 kids that are using steroids. That's a real serious threat to their health. And it's also a message that shooting is acceptable.
MR. RUSSERT: Would you agree with Chairman Davis, if the players do not show up, both the committee and the full House will hold them in contempt of Congress?
REP. WAXMAN: Well, we'll have no other choice but to pursue the ability to enforce our subpoenas, but I hope it doesn't come to that.
MR. RUSSERT: There's been a lot of discussion of your posturing in this particular situation. Congress Paul Kanjorski, who's on your committee, said this to the Philadelphia Inquirer. "I'm astounded. ... I think there's been a total failure to justify why these subpoenas are necessary. It appears to be a publicity stunt. ... To spend our time calling seven baseball players--maybe I've missed something, but is this the most important issue in the United States today? ... I've received no analysis or evidence that it is. ... I served as a page here 50 years ago during the McCarthy hearings. I was here when Nixon used subpoena power. I know how destructive they can be. What are we looking for? Until [the committee] proves there's a public crisis, it doesn't warrant even a committee hearing, no less the issuing of subpoenas."
REP. DAVIS: It is a public health crisis and our testimony from medical experts is going to show this. We have the parents of kids who have used steroids and committed suicide. Over a half a million youth are using steroids, and these major-league players are their idols. Major-league baseball has not come down hard on this. Players have not been out there denouncing it. The policy that they have, we're going to find out at the hearing--we're going to investigate it--but it's not what they say it is at this point and I think the public demands action on this.
MR. RUSSERT: Stanley Brand, an attorney for the major-league baseball and Players Association, is saying that this is beyond your committee's authority and that it is prying into the privacy of these American citizens, the baseball players.
REP. WAXMAN: Well, we wrote a--Chairman Davis and I wrote an extensive letter to Stan Brand, the attorney for baseball, explaining to him why it was within the jurisdiction of our committee. The rules provide for it, but if you just look at the fact that they're violating the Controlled Substances Act, which Congress passed in 1991, they're violating baseball's own rules against using steroids and yet steroid use is increasing. We ought to find out at the minimum why federal laws aren't being enforced adequately or what changes in the law ought to be made. That alone justifies our jurisdiction.
But what strikes me is that baseball doesn't want to investigate it and they don't want us to investigate it. It seems to me that they've had a "don't know, don't tell" policy for the last 10 years. They said that there's a problem but they don't know who's involved, how it happened, but they're going to put something in place that will fix it. In your business, when CBS made a serious mistake about President Bush's service record, they changed their policy but they did it after they had an independent investigation. Baseball doesn't want any investigation of this issue.
MR. RUSSERT: Chairman Davis, in terms of the people who have been subpoenaed, why Sammy Sosa, Mark McGwire?
REP. DAVIS: Well, they've been named. I mean, they have been accused by former colleagues of having used drugs at this point. In one case, we've had players who have said they want to be able to come up and set the record straight. But there have been public accusations about these players. They've set records. There is, I think, a widespread feeling that maybe they cheated their way to achieving these records by using illegal drugs.
MR. RUSSERT: Rafael Palmeiro has been cited by only one person, Jose Canseco.
REP. DAVIS: And he's said he would like to come and refute that under oath. We're gonna give him that opportunity.
MR. RUSSERT: Palmeiro's coming?
REP. DAVIS: Well, we've asked him to come.
MR. RUSSERT: Isn't there a problem, though, if just one person, like Canseco, who has a long rap sheet, makes a comment about, well, someone like Rafael Palmeiro, he comes before your committee and takes the oath, it gives the suggestion that he did something wrong, or if he doesn't come, the suggestion that he did something wrong, when only one person has accused him.
REP. DAVIS: Well, you have colleagues. I mean, you have people that serve together. This is something baseball has just ignored over the last decade while it's been going on, records have been being set and they've been breaking attendance records. You now have not just Canseco, you have grand jury testimony in a number of cases. The more that we find out about this, the wider spread it appears to have been. We're going to allow members to come and set the record straight.
MR. RUSSERT: Jason Giambi of the New York Yankees has already testified before a grand jury. If he comes before your committee and you grant him immunity, won't that interfere with the criminal justice process?
REP. WAXMAN: Well, the grand jury is not looking at him. The grand jury is looking at BALCO, and we don't think it's going to. And, of course, before an immunity would be granted, we'd be checking this out. In fact, we've already started checking it out with the Justice Department. The purpose of this hearing is not to go after any individual player or to put them in legal jeopardy. The purpose of this hearing is to get the facts. You can't have a hearing about baseball without the players being involved. We have baseball, the baseball union, and we should have the players. We have medical people. We need to look at this from different aspects. It's a problem that needs to be investigated, and we're going to do it.
MR. RUSSERT: Why aren't you bringing in the baseball owners?
REP. WAXMAN: We are bringing the baseball commission which represents the baseball owners.
MR. RUSSERT: But there is suggestion that some of the owners look the other way, some teams may have altered contracts and turned a blind eye.
REP. DAVIS: Tim, we're bringing in some managers. One of the leaders there in the Oakland A's at the time all this was going on is coming. He's now a baseball executive. So we're going--we're looking at it from that aspect. You can't have everybody in one hearing. We're just trying to set a framework here. What we'd like baseball to do is admit they have a problem, show what they are doing to fix it, and make sure that we can set the record straight for young people. This is bad. This is bad for their health and it's bad for the kids.
MR. RUSSERT: Will every player that's called be given immunity from prosecution?
REP. DAVIS: No.
MR. RUSSERT: They won't?
REP. DAVIS: Some have--we have in one case, one player has said that they don't want immunity. They're ready to come and testify.
MR. RUSSERT: But anyone who asks, it will be granted?
REP. DAVIS: Not necessarily.
REP. WAXMAN: Well, we're still looking at that and still discussing it.
MR. RUSSERT: Dave Anderson of The New York Times--very respected sports writer--wrote this on Friday: "Without Bonds, Hearing Loses Much of Its Power. For all the questions being raised in the skirmish between a Congressional committee and a and Major League Baseball over most of the subpoenas issued for Thursday's real opening day - the scheduled hearing in Washington on steroids in baseball - perhaps the most important question has been raked under the infield dirt: Why wasn't Barry Bonds subpoenaed? ...Since Bonds is the symbol of suspected steroid use in baseball, a hearing without his testimony, whatever it may be, loses some, if not most, of its credibility. Without issuing a subpoena for Bonds, the committee is giving him an intentional walk."
How do you respond?
REP. DAVIS: Well, there are a lot of reasons why people are on or off the list, including the BALCO investigation in San Francisco, but including the fact that we didn't want to make this about one player. The problem of steroids has been systematic throughout baseball. You bring Bonds in, it's going to be just about Barry Bonds. It's more widespread than that.
MR. RUSSERT: But if you have Giambi and Palmeiro and McGwire and Sosa, it's not just about one player. Why...
REP. DAVIS: There are a lot of factors that go into this, including other investigations going on in terms of who we asked and who we didn't call.
MR. RUSSERT: So with Barry Bonds, your concern is the granting of immunity?
REP. DAVIS: I didn't say that. I think there are a lot of factors that go in that decided not to go with Bonds.
MR. RUSSERT: But as you know, Congressman Waxman, baseball fans are watching Barry Bonds close in on the home run record of Babe Ruth and Henry Aaron. Why not bring him before your committee and ask him straight up, "Did you ever take steroids?"
REP. WAXMAN: Well, he may come before us at some future hearing. This may not be the last hearing we hold on this subject. Depends how much we learn on Thursday, and, of course, if people don't even want to come in, refuse, snub their nose at the Congress, then we're going to have another hearing at least.
But the important point is not any one player. The important point is the widespread use of steroids by baseball players and other athletes, and what changes in the law we might need and how we can stop this signal to the kids that they have to take steroids to be athletes and be competitive. High school kids are told if they want a scholarship, they better take steroids.
MR. RUSSERT: Who says that?
REP. WAXMAN: Well, that's the whole lineup. If your professionals, your competitors take steroids, you're at a competitive disadvantage. If you're in college, you want to go into the pros, you feel like you have to take steroids. And then high school kids are--get the sense that if they want scholarships, to be good athletes, they better take steroids. It forces them. It's a pressure on them. And then on the other side of it is it becomes socially acceptable. Baseball and other sports have made it acceptable for people to use steroids to enhance their performance, which also means they're cheating in order to win.
MR. RUSSERT: How widespread do you think this problem is?
REP. DAVIS: Well, there's no question it's been very widespread. Now that baseball is starting testing, we'll be getting some of the test results. We don't want to know who passed and who failed, but we need to know, you know, what the numbers are. We'll get, I think, a better handle on it.
MR. RUSSERT: Are you satisfied with the new policy put in place by major-league baseball?
REP. DAVIS: Not at all. I mean, we don't know what the policy is. We've asked for it two weeks ago and we have yet to receive it. The subpoena calls for their delivery on Monday at noon. And I think we'll have more to say after we see it.
REP. WAXMAN: That's one of the subjects of the hearing. Baseball says they have a new policy. They couldn't do anything before because they had collective bargaining agreements. That's their argument. But they say they have a new policy. Well, I've heard through the grapevine that some people think you have to be an idiot to ever get caught under that new policy. This business of saying that they have a consent decree and that's the reason we should understand that they didn't do anything strikes me as ridiculous. Steinbrenner said that he doesn't want players with long hair and beards and so there are no players with long hair and bears. That's not part of the collective bargaining agreement. He just said that's a priority of the Yankees. Why hasn't he and other owners say it's a priority not to use steroids? We can't test everybody randomly. But if you've got a suspicion that somebody has been using steroids, and it's against the rules of baseball, can they sit back and say they've done nothing, they don't need to do anything, they can't do anything? That seems to me absurd.
MR. RUSSERT: Will you call Mr. Steinbrenner?
REP. WAXMAN: Well, I'm not interested in his policy about long hair and beards. I'm interested in knowing why they all observe that policy at the Yankees and other owners can't use that kind of example and say, "This is it. This is not going to be permitted." And the message is clear that steroid use is not going to be accepted either by the Yankees or any other baseball team.
MR. RUSSERT: If baseball does not cooperate, might it lose its antitrust exemption?
REP. DAVIS: Well, I don't think we're there yet. Just as we're not there sending to jail. But ultimately when you push this out, they not only enjoy antitrust exemptions, they enjoy a lot of tax exemptions in terms of depreciation of players and so on. They're advantageous to the business of baseball. You have to remember the BALCO hearings, and the grand jury investigation talks about masking agents, ways that you can get around the traditional tests, as well. That's something we need to look at. Is there a lot of ways that you can continue to use steroids and avoid testing?
MR. RUSSERT: What authority does your committee have? Could you look into drugs in Hollywood, drugs in the music business? How widespread do you feel you can go?
REP. DAVIS: Rule 10, Clause 4C2 gives us the ability to hold a hearing on any matter at any time. We're the major investigatory committee of Congress. We don't abuse it. We didn't issue any subpoenas for the last two years. Henry and I worked together in a bipartisan fashion to decide what we'll do. But this is a serious problem. Kids are dying from the use of steroids. They're looking up to these major- league leaders in terms of the enhancements that they're using. And we have to stop it.
MR. RUSSERT: What about football, basketball? Any other sports?
REP. WAXMAN: Well, I think it's a problem in all of these sports, and maybe one thing we ought to look at is one standard for all of the athletic teams. Maybe the Olympic standard. That is one that seems to be taking hold and the message is very clear. The standard that baseball is telling us they're going to put into place and we don't know exactly what all the details are, but they're saying you'll be suspended for 10 days if you're using steroids. Well, is that tough enough? I don't know.
MR. RUSSERT: Again, you're confident that several players will show up on Thursday?
REP. DAVIS: Of course.
MR. RUSSERT: We'll be watching. Chairman Tom Davis, ranking member Henry Waxman, thank you very much.
REP. WAXMAN: Thank you.
