contreversial article about protein

DAVID

New Member
This a contreversial article about protein- thank you for your advises about this article.:mad:

Good Morning -- BroJon Readers !! Here's the latest edition of
THE BROTHER JONATHAN GAZETTE
DAILY DIGEST
Tuesday August 1, 2006

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We'll know our disinformation program is complete when
everything the American public believes is false.
-- William Casey, CIA Director (from first staff meeting, 1981)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


TEACHING AN OLD DOG NEW TRICKS
How The American Government is Killing Americans

[Good-Bye GOUT?]
[And osteoporosis, autoimmune disorders, congestive heart failure
and kidney disease?]

~~~~~ (Special Edition, Print or Post to Your Website) ~~~~~


Recently a BroJon reader was diagnosed with a serious disease. He was an old friend aged 80. He had shortness of breath, fluid around the heart and lungs and severe fatigue. He had recently finished a week's worth of repairs in his backyard. He went to his local clinic for a diagnosis. He was told he had Congestive Heart Failure and Kidney Failure. He wrote me to tell me how serious it was. This is what I wrote back to him.

Burt --I got your email about the "Confirmed Initial Onset." I was greatly concerned. Not because you have a disease, but because you were badly and improperly diagnosed by the doctor. That diagnosis may have come from the doc's medical texts when he was in med school 40 years ago. It clearly is not current medicine. One thing I have learned is not try to argue with the doctor. It is best to find another doctor and get a second opinion.

THE OVER MEDICATION OF AMERICA THE AMERICAN DISEASE

I have been having a similar discussion with my mother for the last 30 years. She is 83 and actually has no diseases. For 60 years she has been a type-one insulin-dependent diabetic. Most docs are amazed that she is still alive at 83, let alone having no other diseases. Most diabetics die from diabetes and many related diseases in less than 20 years. I have been watching her medications and treatments for the last 30 years. I mostly advise her, don't go to doctors, don't listen to doctors, and don't take the medications they prescribe. At one time she was up to 13 medications at the same time. I went through her list of meds and found most of the medications were simply to ease the side-effects of the other medications, which were mostly preventative and not treatments for any disease that she actually had. I cut the list down to 4 meds, including the insulin. Suddenly all her insomnia, aches and pains, swollen feet, black and blue bruises and fatigue went away. She was healthy and "symptom" free. I have been watching my mom's med list carefully for the last 10 years. I have gotten her to ask the doctor, "Do I really need this? And Why?" The doc usually can't answer, and doesn't prescribe the meds. The medication was simply some samples the drug makers had dropped off at his office, hoping to get the doc's patients hooked on the drugs. She simply didn't need any of them.

TREATING THE SYMPTOMS AND NOT THE DISEASE

Since 1970, I have been reading medical textbooks and journals for the latest information. I also have a large collection of old Merck Manuals going back to 1910. I am amazed at what doctors believed 100 years ago. I now read the current medical texts with the same skepticism and amazement as the old texts, how can modern doctors believe such things. It is not logical and there is no medical evidence to prove it. There is no disease called Congestive Heart Failure. It is not even a disease, because it is merely the "symptom" of other diseases. Too many doctors today are only treating the symptoms of disease and not the cause of the disease itself.

In the last five years, in the Brother Jonathan Gazette, I have been writing a series of articles about SARS, Bird Flu etc, including many medical topics. I proved that they were not diseases, they were merely mis-diagnosed flu. My proof was absolute. Many doctors from around the world, wrote to me to thank me for the clear explanation. Few American doctors wrote to explain that they had been fooled by American drug companies into believing false information about diseases. Most American doctors believe the propaganda from the drug makers. It is part of the American medical school system. Doctors in other countries, aren't trained that way and can't understand why Americans have so many American "diseases." After reading my articles, the foreign doctors understood, and thanked me, since they thought they were behind the times because they did not use American treatments. The American treatments were, to them, simply illogical.

SALT ONLY CAUSES HYPERTENSION IN AMERICA

Burt, as an example, 20 years ago we had a discussion about salt and high blood pressure. I said there was no cause and effect relationship. You wanted evidence. I sent you a clipping from the San Jose Mercury News, when they still printed news, which showed that the American Heart Association had admitted that the study which related lowering salt intake would lower blood pressure, was based on an incorrect study of Amazonian indians. But the Heart Association, rather than withdrawing the recommendation to lower salt intake, instead persisted in the recommendation to eliminate salt from the diet.

The Heart Association said that they would not recant, since they did not want the public to lose "faith" in the recommendations of doctors. And besides, food makers were making millions by producing very expensive "heart healthy" low-salt versions of most food products. Why put the food makers out of business. The "heart healthy" diet was a fraud. What the article was showing was that most of American medicine is based on "faith" healing. If you "believe" your doctor, you might get better. If you don't "believe" your doctor you are going against modern American medicine. In other words, most of modern American medicine is Faith Healing.

So Burt, lets look at your diagnosis again. Among the list of symptoms, the critical item is the failure of the kidneys to eliminate all the toxins. This is clear from the blood panel tests which show high levels of certain kidney enzymes in the blood, The toxins remain in the blood. The body tries to flush out the toxins with extra fluids. This build up of fluids is called "congestive heart failure" and fluid in the lungs is like a precursor to pneumonia. But those are not diseases, they are the merely "symptoms" of the toxins in your blood. Your body is simply trying to flush out the toxins. Toxins that you generated, but not from any disease.

TOXINS FROM AN OVERWHELMED KIDNEY

And the toxins come from the kidneys being overwhelmed. There is nothing wrong with your kidneys other than your typical American diet. The main and sole purpose of the kidneys is to process and eliminate proteins and waste in the diet. There are three components of all diets: carbohydrates, fat and proteins. The first two are food, but protein actually has no caloric or food value. Yes, the caloric value of protein is virtually zero. Proteins are mostly dumped by the kidneys as a non-food waste product. That is the main purpose of kidneys in humans, to reject the excess protein in the diet. Protein is almost never used as food by the body, except in cases of extreme starvation. In normal humans almost all, about 96%, of the protein is dumped. If you eat a diet rich in protein, you will have a build up of protein by-product toxins in the blood, resulting in the constellation of symptoms which you now have. Your problem is not a disease, but simply diet. The symptoms could be cleared up in a day or two simply by giving your kidneys a rest. Don't eat any more animal protein.

PROVING THE SOURCE OF THE AMERICAN DISEASE

The truth of this form of diagnosis is not found in any medical textbooks, but is found in veterinary textbooks. About 30 years ago, many dog and cat owners were bringing in their older pets who had a strange constellation of symptoms. They seemed to have organ damage and build up of fluids in most organs. This was traced to kidney failure, caused by feeding the older animals canned cat and dog food. In the 1950's and 60's the pet food business boomed. It was a trillion dollar business. The pet food makers were going to the ASPCA's around the country and collecting all the euthanized dogs and cats and tossing them in big vats and turning them into cat and dog food in a can. You remember Kal-Kan and Alpo. The pet food makers were making trillions of dollars and it was all profit, since the raw product, dead dogs and cats was free. In many cases, the ASPCA's paid the pet food makers to haul away the dead animals.

MEDICAL PROOF FROM A SECOND SOURCE

But the vet docs realized, that this was OK for feeding young animals, but was killing the older pets. So the food makers came up with dried cat and dog food for older animals, mostly made from grains and vegetables with "meat flavoring" but no meat, and this solved the problem. Instantly the pet's kidney failures stopped and the old pets were up and running around again for many more years. OK, so the vets know that, but it seems no doctor for humans ever heard of such a thing. So instead, to get rid of fluid buildup due to the toxins in the blood, the doctors use diuretics to get rid of the fluids, rather than get rid of the toxins. That's one sure way to kill the patient. The docs are actually defeating the body's own attempt to flush out the toxins, by using diuretics. This can only lead to continued organ and heart failure, leading to a sure death.

THE TOXINS IN YOUR BLOOD

And what are those toxins? Proteins are made from amino acids, which are basically, ammonia acids. Ammonia is a nitrogen atom with three hydrogens. When attached to an organic acid such as -COOH, it becomes and amino acid. But notice that neither the ammonia NH3 nor the acid COOH can be oxidized or metabolized to produce energy, thus they have no food value. They cannot be oxidized or metabolized by the body to make energy. The amino acids are only used to make proteins which are found in the cell walls of your cells and to make DNA in the cell nucleus. Only a tiny amount of protein is needed for cell maintenance. For body maintenance you only need about 6 grams of protein per day for your few replicating or dividing cells. But the average American consumes about 140 to 160 grams of protein per day. It is not used by the body at all, since it is simply peed away through the kidneys. People in other countries don't consume that much protein per day, and they don't have the American diseases. And 6 grams of protein is about one tablespoon.

COMPARE 1 TABLESPOON OF ANIMAL PROTEIN
TO WHAT YOU CONSUME EVERY DAY!

How many tablespoons of meat do you eat per day? -- about 10 to 20 tablespoons? What does your body do with all the rest of the protein. Proteins are about half nitrogen by weight, and you have been making expensive nitrate fertilizer for your toilet. Why do you think animal manure is used as fertilizer?

PROTEINS. AMINO ACIDS AND AMMONIA

Without looking at the complete biochemistry of the kidneys, their job is to turn the amino acids, or ammonia acid, into uric acid. When mixed with water, this uric acid is called urine. Now you know why urine smells like ammonia. Check any baby's diaper for proof. The reason why babys have smelly urine is because their food intake, mother's milk, is very rich in protein. That's because babies are growing at the fastest rate ever during their whole life. They need the excess protein for the rapid cell growth right after birth. After several years, babies are weaned to foods that are much lower in protein percentage, and the urine becomes less ammonia-like. Except in America, where Americans are told to eat a diet which is richer in protein than even mother's milk. How did that happen? It doesn't happen anywhere else in the world.

THE SOURCE OF BAD HEALTH IN AMERICA

The primary cause of American diseases goes back to the founding of the USDA in the late 1880's. At that time farmers were going through a farm recession. The many hundreds of local county farm granges, got together and asked the federal government to help them out. The national grange association was a lobbyist group, which by congressional enactment was merged into the department of agriculture as the USDA. Thus, the USDA is and always has been a farm lobbyist group to help farmers by promoting the sale of farm goods, mostly meat, dairy and eggs. It is not logical, how the American medical profession has accepted the USDA as a source of nutritional information. It is completely illogical, and mostly false and fraudulent. The USDA has never been interested in nutrition nor health, it's only interest, as required in the founding congressional legislation is the promotion of farmers and farm goods. So what has happened in the last 100 years?

THE USDA EGG MODEL OF GOOD HEALTH

The USDA in the 1920's began a series of experiments in nutrition. They did this to sell farm goods. They determined that the basis for a good diet should be based on the model of the chicken egg. Why they chose that model is beyond me, since babies don't eat eggs. It is almost all pure protein. I chose a model based on mother's milk, and then gradually reduced the amount of protein with age. I call my diet the Kinderken Diet. It looks surprisingly like the 1970's Scarsdale Diet or the later, now popular, Mediterranean Diet. These diets are high in fruits and vegetables but do not eliminate meat, so they can't be called vegetarian. My system is much simpler with no calorie counting. Simply change the foods you buy, then eat as much as you want. You can graze all day, if all you are eating is good food. The standard USDA diet, and the latest USDA food pyramid is still extremely high in meat, eggs and dairy. But that's the job and purpose of the USDA by congressional enactment, to promote the sales of farm products, not to promote good health and nutrition.

HOW THE USDA BOMBED YOUR HEALTH

In the 1930's several more experiments were done. The USDA invented the "calorimeter" to measure the calorie value of various foods. The instrument was called the "calorimeter bomb." This is a closed box, food samples are put inside and heated until they burn. The amount of heat given off was the amount of heat in calories per unit of food. They found that carbohydrates like sugar produced 6 calories per gram of sugar. Proteins also produced about 6 calories per gram. And fats, like olive oil or butter produced 9 calories per gram. But hold on here, there is something wrong with this process. It has fooled Americans ever since, especially the doctors. Proteins don't burn, they char.

Carbohydrates and fats are made from carbon and hydrogen. Both of those can be oxidized into Carbon Dioxide and water. You can live on just carbohydrates, and then you breath out the carbon dioxide waste and the water is peed away. But the pee has no uric acid smell, it is just clear water. People in long term deep comas are feed with a drip fluid called Ringer's Solution. Ringer's Solution is what most people get in the hospital when the doc asks for an IV drip. It is simply water, glucose and salt. The patients can live on that diet for many months. Their urine does not smell, since it's just water.

GLYCERIDES, DI-GLYCERIDES AND TRI-GLYCERIDES

The simplest carbohydrate is glucose. Which is like the simple sugars found in some foods like sugar cane and sugar beets and many other fruits and vegetables and even mother's milk. Combining two glucose molecules makes up a di-glyceride. These larger molecules are like the fructose found in many fruits, and starches in potatoes or carrots. The body simply breaks the di-glycerids apart in the stomach or intestines into single glycerides and the body uses them or burns them like simple glucose. It is fuel and food.

Glucose molecules can be combined into three or more units called tri-glycerides. Because the molecules are long and skinny, you can roll them between your fingers and they easily roll like pieces of dried spaghetti. Because they easily roll between your fingers, they feel slippery, and we call them oily or greasy. The tri-glycerides are fats and oils, like butter and vegetable oil. Because they are compact long molecules, the body stores them away in fat cells. You can't burn fats in your body. They must first be broken down into three or more separate glucose molecules by fat enzymes. The body doesn't release fat enzymes until you have exhausted all the available glucose or blood sugar, and then the body starts burning the glucose made from the tri-glyceride fats. Exercising for only half an hour will not burn fat, since it takes about an hour to produce the fat enzymes. That's why Americans are so fat, since they don't exercise long enough to burn the fat. So the carbohydrates and fats both are fuel and can be burned or metabolized into energy.

THE FOOD VALUE OF AN OLD PAIR OF SHOES

But then the USDA lied to you. They took protein, either a flank steak or a pair of old shoes, put them in the calorimeter bomb and then claimed that they got 6 calories per gram. But wait, there is no chemical process which takes ammonia and carbonic acid and burns them to make energy. Simply burning a steak or old shoe in the USDA Calorimeter does not reflect what occurs in the body. You end up with a charred steak or shoe -- just ashes, like charred or burned wood. There is no energy gained by eating protein. It is not a food nor fuel. Protein is the building block to make new cells, but it has no energy to make the cell work or make your muscles move. In a car, carbohydrates or fats, in the form of hydrocarbons or gasoline will make the car go. In the car the fuel is also burned or turned into carbon dioxide and water in the exhaust. Just what your body does with carbohydrates. But in a car the proteins are the equivalent of sheet metal and bolts for repairing the car. But the sheet metal and bolts won't make the car go. There is no energy nor food value in protein. But that information would hurt the sales of farm products, so the USDA never told you.

CONGRESS GETS INTO THE AMERICAN DISEASE BUSINESS

Even though it was known by earlier experiments that most people only need about 6 grams of protein per day to make new cells for maintenance, the USDA recommends about 25 to 50 grams per day. Why? To sell meat, dairy and eggs - what else?. The method they used to determine the protein number came from those genius nutritionists, the U.S. Congress. Just before WWII, the U.S. Congress, to make sure the soldiers were well fed, decreed that the USDA should recommend diets which would supply the protein needs for 90 percent of the population. And therein came the big lie which made farmers fabulously rich just by feeding the army. Normally you would think that if a small person needs 6 grams of protein per day, that a larger or heavier person, with more cells, would need a few more grams, while a smaller person would need less. It's a function of how many cells you have that need to be maintained. Thus you could make an equation or chart showing that a 100 lb person needs 6 grams, a 150 lb person needs 8 grams, a 200 lb person needs 10 grams etc. But the USDA did not do that.

Instead, the USDA took the congressional mandate in a different way. They looked at the total US population and divided them in groups by weight. There were 50 lb children, 90 lb grandmas, 150 lb soldiers, 200 lb loggers and football players, 250 lb wrestlers and 400 lb behemoths who were a tad over weight. The USDA took "90 percent" of all people to mean, all those who were under 300 lbs. To supply the protein needs of a 300 lb person would take 25 grams. Thus the USDA recommended that ALL adults should eat 25 grams of protein each day, even if they were 90 lbs grandmas. Thus the USDA did recommend an amount which literally would supply the protein needs for 90 percent of the population. That is absolutely ridiculous, but that is exactly what the USDA recommended in 1940.

HOW THE USDA CONNED THE ARMY FOR BILLIONS OF DOLLARS

The result is that the Army bought 25 grams of beef to feed each soldier each day, even though the average soldier was only 150 lbs and only needed 8 grams of protein. Of course, the soldiers ate all that meat, and peed away the extra 17 grams of protein. This made for some very smelly latrines. The farmers sold three times as much meat as the army needed. This is the result of the USDA being a lobbyist group and promoting the sales of meat, dairy and eggs. And they sure did during WWII. In other words, they convinced the army to buy three times as much beef as they actually needed to keep the soldiers in good health. And that also began the modern American diet and all the American diseases, such as osteoporosis, autoimmune disorders, congestive heart failure and kidney disease, all from an extreme excess of protein.

DIAGNOSING THE AMERICAN DISEASE

Burt, for almost a decade you have been emailing out recipes. I like the bread recipes and tried some of them. But I completely ignored all those stew and pot roast recipes. I never eat anything like those. I have not bought any beef, hamburger or "red meat" in over 20 years. Instead I eat a variety of small amounts of chicken, fish, tuna, and small packets of sliced ham which I used as condiments or flavoring in the main dish which is mostly a large salad. I didn't want to argue with you then about your diet. I just assumed that one of these days, like most Americans, you would eat yourself into high protein kidney failure. And then we would all hear about it. Well that was then, and this is now, and now I hear about it. You don't have a disease, you have a bad diet. I bet your doctor didn't tell you that. You went to the wrong doctor. You're an old dog, going on 80 plus. Any pet vet would have told you, stop all that protein in the diet, and all the symptoms go away in a day or two.

THE KIDNEY CRACKER KETONE

Do not listen to the docs about going on a Salt Free diet. That is a sure kidney killer. One of the biochemical processes in the kidney involves the exchange of sodium ions to convert the amino acid into uric acid. With no sodium in the diet to supply the sodium ions the kidney function is shut down. One of the interim steps in the conversion is converting amino acids into ketones. The ketones are the toxins which are causing the build up of fluids in the heart and lungs. An excess of ketones also permanently damages the kidney itself. [Atkins Diet]

When I worked in aerospace and used chemicals, the one most dangerous cleaner was MEK, methyl-ethyl-ketone. It was called a Kidney Cracker. Just a strong whiff of MEK would put you in the hospital with kidney damage, and put you on the list for a kidney transplant. Just by being on a low salt diet, and eating surplus protein will produce ketones within the kidney itself and cause kidney damage. That's why I investigated the false story about salt causing high blood pressure and then the low-salt diet recommendations from the American Heart Association. It's a false story which leads to kidney damage in older people. I never recommend limiting salt intake. Your body knows when you need salt. Since ancient times salt has been known as a vitamin. It is necessary for life and proper body functions.

MEDICATING THE AMERICAN DISEASE

Thus Burt, do not take any medications. Do not take any diuretics. Do not take any ACE inhibitors. Do not take any blood pressure medications, bad bad. Do not restrict your salt intake. These are all meds for treating the symptoms and not the dis-ease. Instead, stop your intake of complex animal protein and all the symptoms go away. Especially meat proteins. If you take leafy vegetables, like spinach, carrot tops, collard greens, lettuce, celery etc, and analyze them - they are 50 percent protein. You probably didn't know that. The USDA won't tell you, but I got my info right from the USDA food tables themselves. But USDA hid it away by including all the water in the vegetables so they only look like 2% protein. I spent several months modifying the USDA tables by "subtracting" the water from all the foods on the list and just looked at the dry carbohydrates, fats and proteins, You would be amazed. So eating a variety of salads will supply you with all the protein you need. I usually make tuna, chicken or ham salads. With the meat for flavoring, but the salad provides most of the protein. My favorite is a can of spicy hot Chili con Carne tossed into a large salad and its like having 5 Taco Bell tacos without the taco shells. Very filling but only 7 grams of protein and very low fat.

Your doctor has suggested a regimen of medications which probably won't help and may cost you about $500 per month. You don't need any of that, and can solve the problem for free. If you can't find a doctor who will work with you to modify your diet, practice barking, and I can connect you with a doc who has been treating and curing these problems for decades. And it doesn't involve any medications. The use of meds only comes from the USDA working with the Drug Makers to sell meat, dairy and eggs. And then the Drug Makers make big profits from treating you for the side effects of the USDA diet. Do not start any of those medications. You will have a hell of a time trying to get off of them once you are addicted. They have no purpose in your body to cure diseases, only treat symptoms. Their real purpose is to transfer money from your pocket into the pockets of the big pharmaceutical companies.

FINDING A CURE FOR YOUR DISEASE

Burt, I don't want to argue with you about the diagnosis that you got and the recommended therapies. It is simply a standard diagnosis of toxic protein syndrome with a group of medications to treat the side effects. And it kills a good percentage of older people, especially in nursing homes, and even young people with extreme diets. I have had this discussion and argument years ago with many actual practicing doctors. They wanted proof. I gave them the proof from biochemistry and cytology texts. Texts which they never read in med school. The docs only get one unit of nutrition classes in four years of med school, and it is all USDA handouts and charts. That's all the docs know. The docs I talked to only grumbled and stopped the discussion that I was having with them. They don't want to learn about nutrition. That's for nutritionists, not doctors. The docs already have all the answers. The USDA already told them so, and big Pharma has all the drugs and pills needed to treat all the symptoms. None of them has a cure or treatment for the disease. And they want you to buy all those expensive tri-tips, fillet mignons, and T-bones. Well, my old friend, I expect you to live for another good 20 years or more. You can cure yourself, for free. And it's cheap. Simply change what you eat. And to do that, simply change what you buy at the store....


Marshall Smith
Editor, Brother Jonathan Gazette
 
Even though it was known by earlier experiments that most people only need about 6 grams of protein per day to make new cells for maintenance, the USDA recommends about 25 to 50 grams per day. Why? To sell meat, dairy and eggs - what else?.


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That is the most full of sh-t article I have ever read.
 
ForemanRules said:
Even though it was known by earlier experiments that most people only need about 6 grams of protein per day to make new cells for maintenance, the USDA recommends about 25 to 50 grams per day. Why? To sell meat, dairy and eggs - what else?.


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That is the most full of sh-t article I have ever read.

Isn't the amount of protien needed dependant on your weight and DNA? Different people need different amounts. It's pretty common knowlegde that those trying maintain their weight (LBM) consume no less than 1 gram of protein per lbs of bodyweight.
 
DaVinci2 said:
Isn't the amount of protien needed dependant on your weight and DNA? Different people need different amounts. It's pretty common knowlegde that those trying maintain their weight (LBM) consume no less than 1 gram of protein per lbs of bodyweight.
Could be .5 to 1 gram a day per lb of bodyweight, depending on the medical source. All I know is 6 grams a day = death.
 
ForemanRules said:
Could be .5 to 1 gram a day per lb of bodyweight, depending on the medical source. All I know is 6 grams a day = death.


You would have to really work at it to keep your protein intake down to 6 g/day, even without eating any food from animal sources. A bowl of lentil soup gives you 10-15 g; a bowl of oatmeal gives you 5-6. An apple gives you a gram or two. Even a green salad gives you a little bit of protein.
 
ForemanRules said:
Could be .5 to 1 gram a day per lb of bodyweight, depending on the medical source. All I know is 6 grams a day = death.

May be yes, may be no. In fact, I do many research about intake protein per day. In fact, I've cutting my protein to 180 gr a day to 60 gr a day for 3 months- BIG SURPRISE - I don't lose any muscle mass but I lose water retention. My body definition still BETTER; I train 2 time a week6 MY weight is 90 kg - Bodyfat 10 %.
I ate more good fat and good carbs (fruits-vegetable) and some oats with only egg (no protein powders, no steaks, no fish) with some fish oils and ontioxydant. I take only testosterone gel from my physician.
I 'm not a big specialist, but when I read many study : TAKE 1GR TO 2GR of protein each day for better body composition - I have no explication but for me when I cut protein for three I look at the best of my life.

I have changed my mind now. Quantity is not the more important. Protein utilisation and quality is more important . Many boydybuilders look bloated = maybe to much protein and bad protein (denaturated)...
 
Well if you get nutrition facts from Bodybuilding sources you can bet they are wrong. I'm 255 and eat about 200g a day and I grow just fine. Back when I was on a tight diet I ate about .75g per lb of body weight and felt and looked great for years at a time.

The idea a 200lb natural male bodybuilder needs 300+ grams of protein a day is laughable IMO......but this mis-information sure sells protein for the supplement companies
 
DAVID you can't generalize what you've gained on little protein to the whole population. The reason you may look better is that you've dropped bodyfat...that has more to do with calories. However, most pro-lifters consume that much protein so that they can insure they continue to gain muscle. It's hard to know how much protein you should be taking, so people have to say "From 1 to 2 grams per lbs." You eventually find what works, and what you don't need.
 
There's a difference, however, between what one 'needs' and what one can consume to get optimal results. If you're training intensely, there's no reason why you should skimp on protein. Someone might get much better results consuming 1.5 g/lb than by consuming only 1.0 g/lb. In fact, if you're trying to gain mass and you're looking for better body composition, it's desireable to overconsume protein to be on the safe side, rather than overconsuming other macronutrients.
 
ForemanRules said:
Well if you get nutrition facts from Bodybuilding sources you can bet they are wrong. I'm 255 and eat about 200g a day and I grow just fine. Back when I was on a tight diet I ate about .75g per lb of body weight and felt and looked great for years at a time.

The idea a 200lb natural male bodybuilder needs 300+ grams of protein a day is laughable IMO......but this mis-information sure sells protein for the supplement companies


Thank you Foreman for your answer and sorry for this bad english - MAY BE YOU CAN TRY .50 g per lb or .25g per lb with no chang of your body composition, but many bodybuilder have afraid to lose muscle.
Sure if you read many study who have more afraid - an exemple

> you can see that aging people need more proteins like 1 or 1.2 gr/ day to
> prevent sarcopenia.

If you want to prevent something, you need to know what causes this first.
Do you think that sarcopenia is caused by a lack of protein?

you can keep a good body composition with a low protein diet ? But the higher the volume must be (according to you), the more protein you
need indeed.
More important is protein QUALITY, as most protein cannot be used for
construction purposes due to its poor quality. So, you can strongly increase
utilization of protein without increasing overall protein intake.
> I've reading
> that low protein diet increase water retention and you said that protein
> increase cellulite and water retention. !!!

People forget that protein (amino acids) have a very strong stimulating effect
on onsulin as well, even stronger than that of glucose!
Most protein is converted into sugars and fats.

if you cut protein, youdon't lose muscle mass. Not if you compensate that with a higher protein quality.
it is also very important how often you eat, as it is the case that between meals, when the blood glucose level decreases,muscle protein is converted into energy.

>As infants grow older, they need less protein;

Pretransitional human milk (2nd to 3th day post partum) yet contains 2,6% protein.

Transitional human milk (6-10th day post partum) contains 1,6% protein.

Mother's milk (mature milk from 10th day post partum) contains only 1,1% protein.

Consuming more protein in general, does not at all enhance growth, for processing more protein requires extra vitamins and energy. Logically, Neanderthals consuming much more animal food ,were less tall than earlier Homo erectus, who consumed less animal food and more fruits.

Consuming lots of fruits and 50 gram of fresh raw salmon or -egg yolk daily, even tall men abundantly absorb all the protein they need.

Protein recommendations are much higher than protein requirements because we are supposed to eat unnatural and prepared foods, containing badly composed protein.
FAO / WHO recommendations are too high, for 'safety' reasons ; most food is consumed after preparation, causing destruction of amino acids. Compared to minimal need for amino acids, FAO / WHO recommendations are about twice as high as necessary. This has been affirmed through other scientific investigations ; To meet the minimal amino acid requirements, for each kg bodyweight, 0,60 gram (6) ,respectively 0,51 gram or 0,34 gram (7) potato protein appeared to be sufficient to maintain nitrogen balance. These figures equal 57%, respectively 48% and 32% of FAO / WHO recommendations for methionine and cysteine, the most scarce amino acids in potato protein, considering raw potato protein. In fact protein requirements are even lower, because in these investigations people were not fed raw- but prepared potato protein. And due to the preparation process protein quality decreases. In fried potato slices for example, protein quality has even decreased 70%. Considering a moderate 10% decrease, these potato protein intakes would meet 29% to 51% of FAO / WHO recommendations.

People think protein is healthy, and fats and sugars are not. But that is not true ;

Due to the preparation of food, protein easily becomes mutagenic, toxic to the brain and / or mind altering. Damaged protein causes obesity, diabetes and stress. Sugars and fats are primarily essential to the brain and the heart. Protein from prepared food is also not that valuable (anymore), because much essential amino acids are chemically altered due to the influence of heat. Protein quality of prepared pork for example, is 9 to 11% lower than protein quality of raw pork. (Mongomery, R. et al, Biochemistry, A Case-Oriented Approach 6th ed., Mosby-Year Book inc. St. Louis, Missouri. 1996. / 603.)
Frying potato slices (crisps) even decreases protein quality 70%, destroying almost all methionine. (Schmidt, R. & G. Thews, Human Physiology, Springer-Verlag, Heidelberg 1983 / 667.

To compensate the low quality of proteins from unnatural- ,and from prepared food, a high total protein intake is officially recommended. Instead, to become much healthier, and to be able to focus much better, you should drastically reduce prepared protein- and unnatural foods consumption.

To absorb ample protein; all you need is fruits and a little high quality protein regularly.

I feel well with only 60 gr of protein each day- Good for my health, kidneys and good to buy more flowers for my wife.
 
Some of the strongest people ever lived were the omnivores. Hell, they used to treat scurvy 100 years ago with raw meat.

As far as meat being the evil of the world, that is just bullshit.

Vegetarianism is rampant with deficiencies like creatine and vitamin B-12, just to name a few.
Oh, in case you didnt get that one that is in meat:D

Some of the best sources of calcium come from animal products.
Vitamin D can be found in one of the only sources in eggs.

I am not sure where you get your information from but it is flawed.

Protein requirements have to do with several things like, physical activity, training, amount of lean muscle mass you have, etc.

I found that on Atkins I lost a lot of bodyfat.
I felt great, surely some of these diseases would have manifested or given me a clue that there might be something wrong.
Felt great.
 
Yes Sir, I'm thinking like you before I've reading this" e-book ". Because all my life I've eating many many proteins, do be sure that keep my body mass.
When I've try this diet ( Wai is a genus scientist in germany), I cut my protein too 60 g a day.
Now I look more cut than before...
READ AND TRY AND FORGET THAT YOU NEED PLENTY OF PROTEIN...

http://www.freeacnebook.com/FreeAcneBook.pdf
 
A couple of things.
You can live without carbohydrates you can not live without proteins and fats. 100 years ago they used to treat epileptics with fat and protein and this stopped the seizures. Now 100 years later they still will use Ketogenic diets when the drugs wont stop the seizures, with great success.

So living on carbs and fat would not work and you would eventually perish.

Proteins and carbohydrates have 4 calories per gram not 6.
This is nutrition 101 mate and you missed that one. This leads me to believe this whole article is based on your opinion and has little fact in it.

That food pyramid was designed to get the growers money in the agricultural department.
Prior to the agricultural age people lived longer and were stronger and taller.
Many years ago they treated diabetics with fats and proteins.
We eat more carbohydrates now and diabetes is common.
Too many carbohydrates can cause insulin resistance and too much insulin is known for its inflammation causing effects.

I feel people are fat because they over eat. I also feel they over eat carbohydrates, and this is the main contributor here not the other way around.

I thought that fats were converted to ketones not amino acids, I may be wrong but I have not heard that one before.
Like I said above they treated epileptics with ketogenic diets 100 years ago and had many of the kids on that diet for 2 years with no health problems.
Making a sweeping statement that Atkins type diets will permanently damage the kidneys is false.

I think the amonia in the diet is from acid ashing and the body has too low of PH, not ketones.

I do agree with eating fruits and vegetables, I just done agree that protein is the root of all disease, I don't buy that for one minute.

But, you are a good writer, I have to give you that, maybe you can switch to fiction, oops, I see you already did that:D
 
DAVID said:
Yes Sir, I'm thinking like you before I've reading this" e-book ". Because all my life I've eating many many proteins, do be sure that keep my body mass.
When I've try this diet ( Wai is a genus scientist in germany), I cut my protein too 60 g a day.
Now I look more cut than before...
READ AND TRY AND FORGET THAT YOU NEED PLENTY OF PROTEIN...

http://www.freeacnebook.com/FreeAcneBook.pdf

I am dieting right now and take in about 60g of carbs a day and the rest is fats and protein and I am losing 2 lbs a week and go to the gym 5 days a week and feel very good and I will be 47 next month.

Using your weight loss to validate that diet is not a good arguement.
 
I'm thinking like you because I 've eating 150 to 180 gr of proteins each day since 10 year's- I agree with you that protein is very important and I've just thinking differently now.
I don't say that I'm gaining muscle weight with 60 gr of protein each day- but this low quality protein keep my muscle mass intact- May be my testosterone gel, my thyroid treatment help me to keep my muscle. Protein utilisation is perhaps more important
I don't train too much - 2 time a week with high intensity training for 30 mn only. My bodyfat is not so much (10 % of body fat) with better defination now. I don't train to much because I've a adrenal fatigue since 2001- I take hydrocortisone 20 mg every day.
I've good result on my body composition may be because my liver albumin is low bordeline (3.5) before when I'm taking to much protein. May be the low albumin say that I'm a problem with kidney (I don't known for sure) and my cutting protein help me to lose the bloated look.
I don't say that I'm the true, I'm not Jesus-Christ, but I love the true and I want to find the true. I love JESUS because this guy like the true but in this world there are many many liers... MONEY, MONEY ... is the god of this world
 
Well, I hear ya about the truth and a bunch of liars.

Sometimes when things seem to be too good to be true they usually are.

So, you are low testosterone, low thyroid and adrenal fatigue?
How old are you?


Ok, I dont have anything wrong with me right now and I eat meat every day and eat protein with every single one of my meals.
Yes I get around 180 grams of protein a day.

I get bloated when I eat carbs and especially bread.

But some times when people believe something and they put together something that sounds good in writing, it is biased, and the slant of the writing will seem skewed.
You really can only go by what is good for you and how you feel.

All diffrent diets have their flaws, I collect diet books and have been for 10 years, I cant tell you how many diets I have read about. They always fascinate me.
I look at it like there is a big puzzle and little pieces fit, not all the pieces fit but some do.
After a while when things get said, I see flaw in this.

Dont get my wrong the big pharma companies run many of the tests and wont give you all the information on its ability to be save. i can think of handfulls of drugs that were pulled for being safe after they were on the market.

Diets, all I can say is keep an open mind, I see flaws in the article you posted, not sure if it is by you or someone else, but I see some truth and some un-truth.

I have alot of things I believe that most people would say i am crazy like:
Meat is not bad for you.

Butter is good for you.

Carnavore's are stronger and more aggressive.

Saturated fats are needed in the diet and necessary (most will argue the amounts), I can go into that one if you like:D

Processed foods will make you fat and give you inflammation.

Hydrogenated oils and trans fats have no place in the diet what so ever.

Dont go to a doctor and see if something is wrong with you as they WILL find something.

Prostate cancer in alot of men should be left alone and not opperated on.

Salt is not bad for you.

Etc.........

I don't say these things as truth as it is just my opinion.
 
Yes, just before to try less protein, I eat raw meat every day, egg, a lot of fat and feel great too.
May be I will be back on this diet- more energy ; One of my best book about diet is "primal diet" of Aajonus Vonderplanitz" - But I'm sure "for me" all the protein powder is bad- I look more bloated when I eat this stuff than when I eat some oats.
 
I would tend to agree that most of us eat to much protein especially considering our sedentary lifestyles. Protein is needed for repair and creation of new cells. Most of us do not have the lifestyles of ancient men. If you look at primitive societies their diets consist mainly of grains and vegetables that they grow or find in the harvest. They often hunt for meat but it may take days to make a kill that feeds an entire tribe. Think of the eskimos in the artic often spending days in freezing weather to kill a seal. The amount of calories expended must have been enormous just to kill one seal or find fish to eat.

There is no perfect diet for everyone!! Alll these diet books are confusing the hell out of veryone.
They just contradict each other. What you eat depends on climate, lifestyle (how active you are) and your total environment. My father was a butcher and worked in a cold refrigerator most of the day and also ate plenty of meat. He lived to be 92 and was in good health until his last year. But that might not be the right diet for an office worker.

Gorillas seem to do well on basically vegetarian diets and are the most muscular of the of the primates. Most primates will eat meat on an occassional basis.

I do believe that food is the most important medicine in your life. I believe that cancer , heart disease, diabetes etc are caused by an incorrect diet. If you suffer from any of the above look to your diet and what you might be doing wrong. But i believe the idea of one diet fits all just doesn't work. Remember climate, lifestyle and environment should dictate what you should be eating including how much protein.
 
If you look at Clarence Bass he eats lots of carbs and very little meat and probably lower protein than most but he is shredded to the max. Granted he does not have the most mass in the world but he sure knows how to get ripped.


http://www.cbass.com


I want to clarify myself though. I love most types of protein but have often wondered how much we really need. I eat lots of it because I love meat.



Paul
 
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Human Protein Requirements


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Experts are still not entirely sure how much protein we need, and estimates have often been revised in recent years. The national and international organizations which advise on nutrient requirements suggest standards which are calculated to meet or exceed the requirements of practically everyone, explicitly taking into account individual variation, and so these levels have a wide in-built safety margin. In 1985 the World Health Organization (WHO) published revised figures as follows:(1)

The WHO protein figures translate into 56g of protein a day for a (75kg) man, and 48g for a (64kg) woman. The recommendations of the UK Department of Health and Social Security (DHSS) are slightly higher, at about 68g a day for sedentary or moderately active men, and 54g a day for women (2). Both these official recommendations suggest that eating 10% of our daily energy as protein will provide an adequate amount. The NACNE report (3) proposes a protein intake of 11%. National and international recommendations for protein intake are based on animal sources of protein such as meat, cow's milk and eggs. Plant proteins may be less digestible because of intrinsic differences in the nature of the protein and the presence of other factors such as fibre, which may reduce protein digestibility by as much as 10%. Nevertheless, dietary studies show the adequacy of plant foods, as sole sources of protein (see Combining Proteins below), as does the experience of healthy vegans of all ages.

The main protein foods in a vegan diet are the pulses (peas, beans and lentils), nuts, seeds and grains, all of which are relatively energy dense. As the average protein level in pulses is 27% of calories; in nuts and seeds 13%; and in grains 12%, it is easy to see that plant foods can supply the recommended amount of protein as long as the energy requirements are met.

People are not Rats

Tradition has it that plant proteins are of a poorer quality than animal proteins, because the essential amino acids are present in proportions which may not be ideal for human requirements. In the early years of research into protein quality this belief derived from experiments with laboratory rats, when it became clear that amino acid supplementation of a plant source of protein improved its biological value to the point where it would support the growth of weaning rats. The parameters of these experiments were set in such a way that differences in the quality of plant and animal proteins were maximised; the second major problem is that rats and humans have different nutritional requirements (4).

The weanling rat grows, relatively, at a much faster rate than the human infant and therefore requires a more concentrated source of nutrients, including protein. A comparison with human milk makes the difference quite clear; protein comprises only 7% of the calorie content of breast milk, while rat milk contains 20% protein. If weanling rats were fed soley on human milk, they would not thrive. Using the same logic as was applied in the early experiments, it could be argued from this that breast milk is also inadequate for human infants!

Some early studies further demonstrated the differences in nutritional requirements between rats and humans. In 1955 (5) an experiment with three male volunteers showed that the amino acid cystine is able to substitute for 80-89% of the body's requirement for another essential amino acid, methionine, whereas in rats the substitution value is only 17%.

Although the terms 'first-class' and 'second-class' proteins are no longer used, in some circles the belief persists that a vegan diet, containing only plant proteins, may be inadequate. This is because cereals, nuts and seeds contain less of the amino acid lysine, while being high in methionine; and pulses are rich in lysine but contain less methionine. This has given rise to concern that the amino acid present in lower amounts in each food will limit the availability to the body of the others, and the suggestion has been made (6), and adopted quite widely - even among vegans - that complementary protein foods, such as beans and grains, should be eaten at each meal in order to enhance amino acid availability. Vegetarians are also sometimes advised to ensure that they complement vegetable proteins with dairy foods. Are these precautions necessary?

Protein combining may reduce the amount of protein required to keep the body in positive protein balance (7), but several human studies have indicated that this is certainly not always the case. For example, over a 60-day period seven human subjects were fed diets in which protein was derived solely either from beans, corn and refined wheat; beans, rice and refined wheat; or a combination of the plant foods with the addition of cow's milk (8). All subjects remained in positive nitrogen balance (a measure of the adequacy of dietary protein), and there were no significant differences in nitrogen balance between the subjects eating only plant foods and those whose diet was supplemented with milk.

Another study looked at the nutritive value of a plant-based diet in which wheat provided 76% of the protein (9). The aim was to determine whether this regime could be improved by adding other sources of plant protein - such as pinto beans, rice and peanut butter. The diets were entirely vegan, containing only 46g of protein, and were fed to 12 young men over a 60 day period, during which they continued their normal daily activities. The researchers found that all subjects remained in nitrogen balance, and that replacement of 20% of the wheat protein with beans, rice or peanut butter did not result in significant changes in the levels of essential amino acids in the bloodstream.

Even more startling perhaps were the findings of a 59-day investigation with six male subjects who consumed diets in which virtually the sole source of protein was rice (10). At two protein levels (36g and 48g per day) the diets comprised rice as the sol source of protein, or regimes where 15 and 30% of the rice protein was replaced with chicken. The partial replacement of rice with chicken protein did not significantly affect the nitrogen balance of the volunteers (in contrast to earlier experiments with rats which showed that a rice diet did not sustain normal growth). In this human study, even on the low-protein diet rice as the sole source provided between 2 and 4.5 times the WHO-recommended amounts of all essential amino acids, except lysine - of which it supplied 1.5 times the suggested level.
On the higher protein diet, rice alone provided between two and six times the essential amino acid levels suggested by the WHO, and all subjects were in positive nitrogen balance.

When cornmeal was fed as virtually the sole source of protein to ten male volunteers during a 100-day study it was found that at an intake of 6g of nitrogen per day (approx. 36g protein) not all the subjects were in positive nitrogen balance (11). Yet all the essential amino acids were eaten in amounts which met or exceeded standard requirements, with the exception of tryptophan - of which 91% was provided. These results suggest that on a corn protein diet, non specific nitrogen is the first limiting factor, not lack of esssential amino acids.

The 1988 position paper of the American Dietetic Association emphasized that, because amino acids obtained from food can combine with amino acids made in the body it is not necessary to combine protein foods at each meal. Adequate amounts of amino acids will be obtained if a varied vegan diet - containing unrefined grains, legumes, seeds, nuts and vegetables - is eaten on a daily basis.(12)

These and other similar experiments show clearly that diets based solely on plant sources of protein can be quite adequate and supply the recommended amounts of all essential amino acids for adults, even when a single plant food, such as rice, is virtually the sole source of protein. The American Dietetic Association emphasizes that protein combining at each meal is unnecessary, as long as a range of protein rich foods is eaten during the day.


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References

1.Food and Agriculture Organization/ World Health Organization/ United Nations University (1985). 'Energy and protein requirements', WHO Technical Report Series 724. Geneva, WHO.

2.Department of Health and Social Security (1979). Recommended Daily Amounts of Food Energy and Nutritients for Groups of People in the United Kingdom. London, HMSO.

3.National Advisory Commitee on Nutrition Education (1983). Proposals for Nutritional Guidelines for Health Education in Britain. London, Health Education Council.

4.Vaghefi, S.B., Makdani, D.D. and Mickelsen, O. (1974). 'Lysine supplementation of wheat proteins, a review', Am. J. Clin. Nutr. 27, 1231-1246.

5.Rose, W.C. and Wixom, R.L. (1955). 'The amino acid requirements of man. XIII The sparing effect of cystine on methionine requirement', J. Biol. Chem., 216, 763-773.

6.Lappe, F.M. (1976). Diet for a small planet. New York, Ballantine Books.

7.Kofranyi, E., Jekat, F. and Muller-Wecker, H. (1970). 'The minimum protein requirements of humans, tested with mixtures of whole egg plus potatoes and maize plus beans', Z. Physiol. Chem., 351, 1485-1493.

8.Clark, H.E., Malzer, J.L., Onderka, H.M., Howe, J.M. and Moon, W. (1973). 'Nitrogen balances of adult human subjects fed combinations of wheat, beans, corn, milk, and rice', Am. J. Clin. Nutr., 26, 702-706.
9.Edwards, C.H., Booker, L.K., Rumph, C.H., Wright, W.G. and Ganapathy, S.N. (1971). 'Utilisation of wheat by adult man; nitrogen metabolism, plasma amino acids and lipids', Am. J. Clin. Nutr., 24, 181-193.

10.Lee, C., Howe, J.M., Carlson, K. and Clark, H.E. (1971). 'Nitrogen retention of young men fed rice with or without supplementary chicken', Am. J. Clin. Nutr., 24, 318-323.

11.Kies, C., Williams, E. and Fox, H.M. (1965). 'Determination of first limiting nitrogenous factor in corn protein for nitrogen retention in human adults', J. Nutr., 86, 350-356.

12.Havala, S. and Dwyer, J. (1988). 'Position of the American Dietetic Association: vegetarian diets - technical support paper', J. Am. Diet. Assn., 88, 352-355.
 
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