Culling the population

[Hogg]

While flipping through the news sites this morning, I was not suprised to see headlines wherein another 9 people died in an ambush on a fuel convoy.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040409/ts_nm/iraq_convoy_dc_2

Now lets see, a couple of days ago, I believe a dozen were killed, then 8 the last week, a few more in the days preceding.....hmmm, well now, I find it rather amusing that able-bodied young men and women are being sent to a foreign shithole to die over a fight that they could probably care less about.....you see, first we have a saudi arabian traversing the mountains on a donkey and we cant seem to catch him, then we have an Iraqi leader whom eludes us for months on end, we grab him, only to find another extremist popping up to continue the battle against us....it really doesnt matter what the fight is about at this point, there will always be somebody pissed off at the US and ready to grab the flag....we will eventually kill them, losing a ton of Americans in the process, and then another will take his place. perhaps at some point, osama bin laden will come down out of the mountains on his donkey and lead the charge against us himself....but even if we kill him, the battle will be far from over as there are probably as many extremists as there are available donkeys.....now imagine that, we've got soldiers driving around in tanks, choppers, humvees, and we cant catch a single arab on a donkey......how funny is that?

Meanwhile, the taxpayers continue to remain bent at the waist while the government's hand reaches into our wallets, and their genitalia probes deeper into our anus, breaking our spirits and simultaneously taking away some of our civil liberties along the way.....as though we are the criminals.

(sigh) so I laugh.......Its great that they have shamboozled a bunch of men and women into believing that they are fighting for something valid....the reality is, were it that we walked away, the iraqis and other middle easterners would simply turn their aggression toward other groups and continue the bloodshed....for you see, the region will be forever in turmoil......historically, there is always conflict in the middle east and we, the big white daddy (or devil depending how you look at it) think that we can resolve other people's conflicts.

Quite frankly, I see it as a case where it gives our military something to do. Since the cold war ended, the military has declined and many aerospace contractors have suffered terrible losses.....war is good for certain elements of our country....especially if you are some war-mongering bird colonel that hasnt had a good fight since the last gulf war....."awww hell, its been 10 years, lets go kick the shit out of those towel-headed cocksuckers again!!!"....military men love all of the bullshit, rank and protocol, ordering people around, battle, strategy......imagine being a CEO with no corporation to run, no board to meet with......when war comes, a lot of people go to work....its quite simple.

Now one last thing to ponder, and I know that I have rambled quite a bit in this post......imagine if, lets say canada invaded us much as we invaded Iraq......they capture our president and life goes on, they aim to structure our government in some way that benefits us.....and we return to some semblance of our normal lives...we begin working again.....going to the grocery store...whatever. .....so at some point, we are sitting in our offices, staring out the windows, watching canadian troops mustering in the street....at some point, even if we believed that there initial efforts were to our benefit, at some point, we might get really tired of seeing foreigners with guns in our streets, we might get really tired of curfews, and 18 year old kids with machine guns telling us what to do.....and we might, just might, dust off that 12 gauge that hasnt been fired in years, cut the barrel off, and load up with 5 rounds of slugs....and then light a couple of these fuckers up...and our coworkers might do the same ...and suddenly, now we are building traps, setting up ambushes, and making an effort to run them out of our country.....and we would do this under the guise of 'freedom fighting'....viewing the occupying force as the enemy....fighting them because we would rather die than to have a foreigner telling us how to live our lives and controlling our freedom. Hmmm, so perhaps the iraqis have a point, perhaps we should just fuck off back from whence we came and quit trying to impose western standards on their culture.

The crusaders rode down from the far north to the middle east......many did not return home. The middle east was unchanged by their efforts.

The russians spent a decade in afghanistan, only to find themselves, weary and their finances depleted.

We went to vietnam some years ago........

 

[crewboss]

While flipping through the news sites this morning, I was not suprised to see headlines wherein another 9 people died in an ambush on a fuel convoy.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040409/ts_nm/iraq_convoy_dc_2

Now lets see, a couple of days ago, I believe a dozen were killed, then 8 the last week, a few more in the days preceding.....hmmm, well now, I find it rather amusing that able-bodied young men and women are being sent to a foreign shithole to die over a fight that they could probably care less about.....you see, first we have a saudi arabian traversing the mountains on a donkey and we cant seem to catch him, then we have an Iraqi leader whom eludes us for months on end, we grab him, only to find another extremist popping up to continue the battle against us....it really doesnt matter what the fight is about at this point, there will always be somebody pissed off at the US and ready to grab the flag....we will eventually kill them, losing a ton of Americans in the process, and then another will take his place. perhaps at some point, osama bin laden will come down out of the mountains on his donkey and lead the charge against us himself....but even if we kill him, the battle will be far from over as there are probably as many extremists as there are available donkeys.....now imagine that, we've got soldiers driving around in tanks, choppers, humvees, and we cant catch a single arab on a donkey......how funny is that?

Meanwhile, the taxpayers continue to remain bent at the waist while the government's hand reaches into our wallets, and their genitalia probes deeper into our anus, breaking our spirits and simultaneously taking away some of our civil liberties along the way.....as though we are the criminals.

(sigh) so I laugh.......Its great that they have shamboozled a bunch of men and women into believing that they are fighting for something valid....the reality is, were it that we walked away, the iraqis and other middle easterners would simply turn their aggression toward other groups and continue the bloodshed....for you see, the region will be forever in turmoil......historically, there is always conflict in the middle east and we, the big white daddy (or devil depending how you look at it) think that we can resolve other people's conflicts.

Quite frankly, I see it as a case where it gives our military something to do. Since the cold war ended, the military has declined and many aerospace contractors have suffered terrible losses.....war is good for certain elements of our country....especially if you are some war-mongering bird colonel that hasnt had a good fight since the last gulf war....."awww hell, its been 10 years, lets go kick the shit out of those towel-headed cocksuckers again!!!"....military men love all of the bullshit, rank and protocol, ordering people around, battle, strategy......imagine being a CEO with no corporation to run, no board to meet with......when war comes, a lot of people go to work....its quite simple.

Now one last thing to ponder, and I know that I have rambled quite a bit in this post......imagine if, lets say canada invaded us much as we invaded Iraq......they capture our president and life goes on, they aim to structure our government in some way that benefits us.....and we return to some semblance of our normal lives...we begin working again.....going to the grocery store...whatever. .....so at some point, we are sitting in our offices, staring out the windows, watching canadian troops mustering in the street....at some point, even if we believed that there initial efforts were to our benefit, at some point, we might get really tired of seeing foreigners with guns in our streets, we might get really tired of curfews, and 18 year old kids with machine guns telling us what to do.....and we might, just might, dust off that 12 gauge that hasnt been fired in years, cut the barrel off, and load up with 5 rounds of slugs....and then light a couple of these fuckers up...and our coworkers might do the same ...and suddenly, now we are building traps, setting up ambushes, and making an effort to run them out of our country.....and we would do this under the guise of 'freedom fighting'....viewing the occupying force as the enemy....fighting them because we would rather die than to have a foreigner telling us how to live our lives and controlling our freedom. Hmmm, so perhaps the iraqis have a point, perhaps we should just fuck off back from whence we came and quit trying to impose western standards on their culture.

The crusaders rode down from the far north to the middle east......many did not return home. The middle east was unchanged by their efforts.

The russians spent a decade in afghanistan, only to find themselves, weary and their finances depleted.

We went to vietnam some years ago........

damn another great post hogg. got me thinking. can we liken modern iraq with a united states under seige fromt he north? surely if canada were to storm washington in the name of domestic freedom, the american people could not be so short sided as to assume that canada was really there to colonialize without a hard look at the US's incumbent process. we can all agree that dictatorships have never and will never work in modern society. under hussein there was no free trade, no freedom of speech or religion, no semblence of communal organization or social responsibility. Yes of course the US has vested interest however the benefits to Iraq resulting in a democratic restructuring would propagate and IMO, could result in a responsible, civil and very wealthy Middle East. It's like they don't have the capacity to realize that they can hold on to their culture AND prosper in the modern global market. Isreal and Palastine aside, they're a specific case that perhaps will never be solved, who knows..

there is pleanty reason for the US to be there. but since Iraq as a nation seems to be comfortable with living in ignorance, the UN's efforts are rendered useless and the lost lives appear in vain. i think the educated constituency in Iraq will never rise to a position of power because for the most part they're seen as unworthy of legitimacy by the masses. the manipulative & reactionary religious sects in the region make sure of that with their brainwashing reactionary fodder. but like you said, at some point the US must take inventory and realize that some countries are content to starve. i sure as hell want them all to come home at this point.

 

[greyowl]

[/QUOTE] lets say canada invaded us much as we invaded Iraq.[/QUOTE]

If Canada invaded the U.S., within 6 months all you guys would be scarfing down toasted back bacon and cheddar cheese sandwiches instead of mass-produced burgers that taste like cardboard, swilling full-strength suds instead of that piss you call beer down there, smoking legal weed on the street in full view of uninterested cops, and playing real sports with clubs in your hands and razor-sharp blades on your feet -- unlike those pansies who need to protect themseles in suits of armour while frolicking over a mowed lawn in pursuit of a pigskin ball. And believe me, you'd be the happier for it.

Wait for it Hoggsie, you're about to be inundated with hundreds of outraged e-mails. Since they won't be able to refute your points, they'll try to neutralize you arguments by assassinating your character and calling you an anti-American communist.

Watch out especially for the mouth-breathers whose only sources of information are barking fools on FOX-TV, and the rigidly-controlled, highly-censored corporate agenda of U.S. newspaper conglomerates. They'll try to convince you that it's justified for the U.S. to piss taxpayers' money and servicemen's blood down the shit-hole because the occupation forces have sieved the leaves out of a few canals, and turned the lights back on that they bombed out a few months ago.

In their view, this is evidence of George Bush's humanitarianism reasons for invading. That's like calling Mussolini a humanitarian despite all the atrocities he committed because he made the trains in Italy run on time, or calling Stalin a statesman because he use hydro dams to build Russia's first electrical system.

Let me tell you about one of the most disgusting stories I read recently (one of the thousands of stories U.S. news media controlled by corporate conglomerates refuse to tell Americans).

Next year, that cowardly draft dodger Bush Jr. wants to charge veterans just to get in the door at the VA. Then he wants to more than double their prescription drug co-pay. The VA budget is 2.6 billion dollars short of the minimum amount needed to provide quality care for veterans, and it plans to lengthen the waiting periods vets experience for basic health care appointments -- which already runs to 6 months.

That's the NeoCon prescription for America -- send thousands of kids to Iraq to be maimed, then deny them health care when they return home as cripples, because America is spending too much money paying oil companies and contractors to feather their nests in the Middle East.

Mission Accomplished, George W. Say, who gave you the snazzy flight jacket -- one of the pilots who died in your place in Vietnam because you were too busy playing softball with your Ivy League buddies to show up for duty?

 

[bigtraps]

2 more died today, so far that is. Its never going to end.

 

[joe shmoe]

for the longest time now i've been a firm believer that the US should take a look at switzerland and follow the lead. we should mind our own business and take care of our own problems at home and fuck the rest of the world. you gotta take care of #1 first.

that aside, since we are there, i dont think we should leave the job undone...much like vietnam. yes hogg, i see your point as far as canada crossing the border and trying to change the US. however, we never threatened canada with sucide/homicide bombers....car bombs....and we never flew an Air Canada plane into the heart of their economy and their military establishment.

now i know that we will never be like switzerland in the sense that we dont bother with anyone elses problems. having said that, i think and honestly believe that we should, and have to, blow the fuck out of any country that not only poses a threat to us, but acts upon it and/or sponsors it. if they dont respect us, they should fear us. taking a line from the movie "a bronx tale" where "C" asked Sonny(the mob boss) if its better to be respected or feared. sonnt responded with "feared. people lose respect, but its hard to lose fear"...or something along those lines. you get the gist of it.

have a nice day

 

[Bob Smith]

Excellent analysis, Hogg. And the more and more this crap goes on, the more I lean towards exactly what you are saying. Screw 'em. We will never change their beliefs or ideas that they can be free and have a free market and a better standard of living. The same can be said for Isreal/Palestine. Theyve been fighting for centuries upon centuries and no amount of "peace treaties" and bullshit will ever get those two groups to settle down and come to an honest agreement. In the end, screw em. Let them fend for and fight amongst themselves. If they ever do come to a point of attacking us, then we can retaliate and blow them further back into the stone age than they already are.

now imagine that, we've got soldiers driving around in tanks, choppers, humvees, and we cant catch a single arab on a donkey......how funny is that?

We are the most powerful nation on earth and we're being evaded by a 2nd Century nomad.

 

[joe shmoe]

In their view, this is evidence of George Bush's humanitarianism reasons for invading. That's like calling Mussolini a humanitarian despite all the atrocities he committed because he made the trains in Italy run on time, or calling Stalin a statesman because he use hydro dams to build Russia's first electrical system.

thats nice...comparing a democratically elected official to brutal dictators. what was that about character assassination??

have a nice day

 

[Bob Smith]

Greyowl said: If Canada invaded the U.S., within 6 months all you guys would be scarfing down toasted back bacon and cheddar cheese sandwiches instead of mass-produced burgers that taste like cardboard, swilling full-strength suds instead of that piss you call beer down there, smoking legal weed on the street in full view of uninterested cops, and playing real sports with clubs in your hands and razor-sharp blades on your feet -- unlike those pansies who need to protect themseles in suits of armour while frolicking over a mowed lawn in pursuit of a pigskin ball. And believe me, you'd be the happier for it.

Hell yeah we would be better with stick holding people on sharp edges! "We shall kill all people that play sports on a 'diamond'!"

We could all be smoking pot and eating patins (sp?), yet still not be able to use ephedrine and AAS. Not much of an improvement to me.

 

[greyowl]

In their view, this is evidence of George Bush's humanitarianism reasons for invading. That's like calling Mussolini a humanitarian despite all the atrocities he committed because he made the trains in Italy run on time, or calling Stalin a statesman because he use hydro dams to build Russia's first electrical system.

thats nice...comparing a democratically elected official to brutal dictators. what was that about character assassination??

have a nice day

Hitler was democratically elected to power too. Say , wait a minute, didn't Gore get votes more than Bush ... I must be confused? Oh yeah, I remember now, Buish got less than half the votes cast, and only half of eligible voters showed up to vote. Which means he got elected by fewer than 25% of the eligible voters. Democracy in action -- something to teach those ignorant fools in Iraq.

 

[mdoc]

Well said!

At least with canada most Americans/Canadians would have health insurance. It is a travesty that many cannot afford adaquate, or for that fact any health insurance in this country.
Moreover, would we have to learn french, because it seems that I need to brush up on my Spanish more and more every day.

Like many, I was for the war when it first began one year ago, but now it is evident that the costs are far out-weighing the benefits. My wife works with a girl's mom who said her daughter hasn't heard from her husband in two weeks. Her husband is stationed in Iraq and she fears he may be dead. Very sad.

There will be no peace with the radical islams, it is a movement - not a person.
PEACE!
MDOC

 

[Bob Smith]

I like our healthcare system better than Canada's. The last thing I want is another damn tax.

 

[joe shmoe]

I remember now, Buish got less than half the votes cast,

unfortunately, you remember wrong. or choose not to remember the re-re-re-re-count. even the ultra liberal washington post and new york times, after doing their own recounts, published a very small article buried somewhere in the paper that said Bush actually did get more votes.

sorry to have burst the bubble. i'm sure that you can find the info if you do a search in those papers. assuming ofcourse that you dont mind reading something you dont like.

have a nice day

 

[joe shmoe]

in the hopes of keeping some sort of civility between mods...i wont be posting anymore in this thread.

i have read and respect all posts. but it doesnt mean that they are correct or that i agree with them.

have a nice day

 

[chris gordon]

they can keep their socialist welfare healthcare up north with their anti gun legislation too

 

[Bob Smith]

I remember now, Buish got less than half the votes cast,

unfortunately, you remember wrong. or choose not to remember the re-re-re-re-count. even the ultra liberal washington post and new york times, after doing their own recounts, published a very small article buried somewhere in the paper that said Bush actually did get more votes.

sorry to have burst the bubble. i'm sure that you can find the info if you do a search in those papers. assuming ofcourse that you dont mind reading something you dont like.

have a nice day

Joe, IIRC, Gore did get more popular votes on a national level, which is what greyowl was probably referring to. I dont think he was limiting it to just Florida, in which case you would be correct.

 

[Hogg]

Woah, time out. I just picked canada since it was the first country that came to mind but I was only using their country to represent an occupying force of foreigners in my illustration. Really, I doubt the canadians would ever invade us because there is little here that they want

With that said, in my post, replace "Canada" with whatever you choose - Japan, China, a neo-military faction of states from the EU, Mexico, Britain, the French, whatever. The key point is to consider an occupying force who are controlling us.

 

[Hogg]

Thanks CB and BS.

Greyowl, indeed, let them flood my box with emails.....fuck it, I'm soo sick of the herd-like patriotic mentality...."love it or leave it"....to which I reply: " fuck you since I pay more in taxes than you do, you leave"... I'm just over it. I'm over the sheep lapping up the shepherd's piss and gleefully walking over the edge.....you wont find him at the bottom of the cliff amongst your lifeless carcasses....he's still up at the top finding more of you to direct over the edge. Wake up. See it for what it is.

I love my country to death but for Christ's sake, we were better off under Clinton than Geo. W and Clinton's a fucking democrat!!!!!

Piss on it....

 

[Ronin_]

I cant reply to this posts intended area as I am not very well versed in politics, but regarding culling, hell yes! Cut back benefits, and make people NEED skills to survive rather than breed to live off welfare

 

[garyzilla]

Thanks CB and BS.

Greyowl, indeed, let them flood my box with emails.....fuck it, I'm soo sick of the herd-like patriotic mentality...."love it or leave it"....to which I reply: " fuck you since I pay more in taxes than you do, you leave"... I'm just over it. I'm over the sheep lapping up the shepherd's piss and gleefully walking over the edge.....you wont find him at the bottom of the cliff amongst your lifeless carcasses....he's still up at the top finding more of you to direct over the edge. Wake up. See it for what it is.

I love my country to death but for Christ's sake, we were better off under Clinton than Geo. W and Clinton's a fucking democrat!!!!!

Piss on it....

Just about everyone on this baord knows what I do for a living. Better yet my calling in life. This post by Hogg kinda got to me. IMO, i do not think life was better under Clinton. For me as a pastor no way was it. I will be voting for Bush again this November, because I cannot as a pastor vote for Kerry. Yes, I believe that the war in Iraq is a mess, and that we might have not gone about it the right way. But at least Bush is against abortion, partial birth abortion, stem cell research, and so forth. The point is, depending on your views either Bush or Kerry is a monster. I am sad to say that our choices this election are very poor, and either way we get screwed. The question is who will screw us over more.

 

[crewboss]

Woah, time out. I just picked canada since it was the first country that came to mind but I was only using their country to represent an occupying force of foreigners in my illustration. Really, I doubt the canadians would ever invade us because there is little here that they want

With that said, in my post, replace "Canada" with whatever you choose - Japan, China, a neo-military faction of states from the EU, Mexico, Britain, the French, whatever. The key point is to consider an occupying force who are controlling us.

i know what you meant hogg, i wasn't taking it at face value. i was comparing an invaded US with the invaded Iraq. the mentality of the "invaded" should be self-examination. "why are we being invaded??" everyone knows traditional colonialism is dead, and they knew their system was typified by oppression, hate, and capital blood shed. they KNOW why he had to go...

if you don't read another one of my posts, do me a favor and hear me out on this one, and tell me i'm an idiot afterwards if you're so inclined...

take one step back. we feel the obligation to ensure stability and peace everywhere, for what? in the end, the goal is to create a global environment typified by collaboration. the idea is to end the notion of war in order to solve bigger problems, like why the fuck we're here... it's no secret that a country embodying a democratic voice, freedom of speech, and civil order is most fertile ground to contemplate man's most important questions. See ancient Greece and Rome. This is why we fight for order in 3rd world countries. We won't begin to scratch the surface of the more important questions as a human race until countries stop italicizing our differences. Countries like Iraq propogate hate, and they are the world's BIGGEST problem for this reason.