AlwaysHungry
Member
Test var GH a fat burner if you want you’re golden ditch the MK it’s only good while bulking
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Cycle Plan for Fat Loss & Muscle Retention (Feedback Request)
- Thread starter Wombr
- Start date
SulekJr
Member
Honestly if you're 30kg overweight, I think TRT would be massively important to include, especially if you'll be fasting. I also lost 110lb from 310 to 200 over 8 months using fasts (but not PSMFs) when I was natural and lost so much muscle that my bench press max dropped almost 100lbs. When I did the other cut on TRT, it was insane how much more muscle I retained. You can always PCT later or just say fuggit and go on TRT anyways because being 30kg overweight probably isn't great on your test levels anyway. Either way good luck and you should make a log on here where people can help you and monitor your progress.
Let’s start with setting realistic expectations. If you’re aiming to lose 25-30kg of fat (which is 55-70lbs for the US folks), you’re looking at at least a year to do it in a way that doesn’t wreck your body. Your current cycle plan doesn’t really align with your goal.
First, drop the HGH - at the doses you’re considering, it’s more likely to cause water retention, which will mess with the scale and probably demotivate you. Since you’re dealing with obesity, unnecessary water weight fluctuations won’t help your mindset.
Clenbuterol? Forget it. It’s not worth touching until you’re around 10-12% body fat. At higher body fat percentages, it’s just extra stress on your heart for minimal extra fat loss.
For GLP-1s, I’d go with Tirz over Reta - it suppresses appetite better and offers superior blood sugar control, which is exactly what you need.
Anavar? Useless here. All you’ll do is mess up your lipid profile for no real benefit.
MK-677? Straight to the trash.
Test E at 300mg? It’s fine, but in your case, I’d lean more towards a low-dose TRT protocol instead of a full cycle.
What you actually need:
1. Diet: If you want fast and effective results, RFL is the way to go. You’re in Category 3, so you can safely do 12 weeks, then take a 3-4 week maintenance phase, and repeat for another 12 weeks.
2. Training: 3x per week strength training. Keep it simple.
3. Steps, steps, steps. Start with 5,000-6,000 per day, increasing weekly.
4. Cardio? On RFL, it’s questionable, but 3x per week low-intensity (45-60 min) can be added if you want.
Focus on diet and consistency before throwing in unnecessary compounds. The goal is fat loss, not playing chemist.
First, drop the HGH - at the doses you’re considering, it’s more likely to cause water retention, which will mess with the scale and probably demotivate you. Since you’re dealing with obesity, unnecessary water weight fluctuations won’t help your mindset.
Clenbuterol? Forget it. It’s not worth touching until you’re around 10-12% body fat. At higher body fat percentages, it’s just extra stress on your heart for minimal extra fat loss.
For GLP-1s, I’d go with Tirz over Reta - it suppresses appetite better and offers superior blood sugar control, which is exactly what you need.
Anavar? Useless here. All you’ll do is mess up your lipid profile for no real benefit.
MK-677? Straight to the trash.
Test E at 300mg? It’s fine, but in your case, I’d lean more towards a low-dose TRT protocol instead of a full cycle.
What you actually need:
1. Diet: If you want fast and effective results, RFL is the way to go. You’re in Category 3, so you can safely do 12 weeks, then take a 3-4 week maintenance phase, and repeat for another 12 weeks.
2. Training: 3x per week strength training. Keep it simple.
3. Steps, steps, steps. Start with 5,000-6,000 per day, increasing weekly.
4. Cardio? On RFL, it’s questionable, but 3x per week low-intensity (45-60 min) can be added if you want.
Focus on diet and consistency before throwing in unnecessary compounds. The goal is fat loss, not playing chemist.
Thanks, very helpful. I’ll stay away from everything except reta/tirz.
If you’re serious about this, check out Lyle McDonald’s book - it’s $20 on Amazon, which isn’t much for solid knowledge:
If you’re outside the US or don’t want to spend $20, there’s a 3-hour podcast covering the same principles. It’s long, but you’ll learn a lot:
View: https://youtu.be/t7T6Dii-90Q?si=nFD7QNl3YaA062kj
Discipline and consistency are what will get you there - stick with it, and you’ll be shocked at how fast the fat melts away.
Be careful with the half-life on the duta. It can be as long as 6 months. If you cycle of test and duta at the same time, the duta can linger for longer and can crash your DHT with the missing support/conversion from test. Finasteride, which has a shorter half-life, might be more appropriate if you're really set on cycling
xrayphoton13
Member
RFL holds a special place in my heart. The first diet that ever worked on me. Lyle is the man. The only person in the fitness industry that tells the truth and isn't trying to sell you something. (Although he may have gone off the deep end with rage lately.) The books are so so great though. His new GLP1 book should help a lot of people including OP
Here ya go OP, how to diet with glp1s without losing muscle:
And RFL(worth the buy)
The Rapid Fat Loss Handbook – Bodyrecomposition Store
Smokeythabear
New Member
This is excellent advice and pretty much exactly what I did that helped me lose 40lbs in 120 days while adding strength and muscle! It can be done in less than a year OP, but consistency and adherence is number 1.
My top tips
Tirz - Start at 2mg and titrate up 0.5mg every 2 weeks or whenever food noise comes back. It doesn’t take much of a boost IMO.
Diet - minimum protein of 0.8 grams per lb or 1.8 grams per kg of body weight. Get more if you can but most likely with Tirz, it’ll be hard to eat more.
Test - TRT dose of 150mg is a good starting point. You can build muscle in a calorie deficit with this.
Steps - get your average up to 10k per day. That should be enough.
Resistance training - track your progress to stay motivated. 3-4 times per week is enough with a large caloric deficit it will be tough to have the energy or recovery for more.
GH - optional 2-3iu before bed. Possible boost with fat loss, muscle retention, and recovery. Just be ready for water retention showing on the scale for a couple of weeks.
Cardio - optional of HIIT twice a week. Fat loss boost and overall helps with feeling good and getting BP & RHR down for better recovery/health.
Thanks, down 13kg with reta and gh. Thinking about adding in cagri for appetite suppression but reta is doing enough right now. Doing 30-60 minutes light cardio every day.
Smokeythabear
New Member
Great start! You got this. For me I started with Tirz and I am just now adding Reta for the metabolic benefits. I think Tirz is superior for appetite suppression. I don’t have Cagri experience but it sounds like it could help. If you wanted to add Tirz, watch the Vigorous Steve deep dive on Reta. He covers the equivalent dosages of all GLP.
Slowww
Member
What the hell is that lmao. Mk677 on a weight loss phase you plan to take as much exemastane as some people taking a gram of gear for 150mg test. AND Nolvadex. Where did you get this idea.
You don’t need clen when you have 30kg to lose. If you’re going to use it, save it until you are closer to the end and you have exhausted more choices in manipulating your cardio and diet. Maybe when you have like 10kg to go or even less it will be more appropriate. You should have absolutely no problem losing weight without any fat burners with such an excess of fat.
Someone else mentioned t3, also 100% unnecessary until you’re lean enough that your hormone production is hampered by the lack of fat and you need to replace hormones therapeutically.
If you’re already doing the cardio and diet, with some test and a little gh it’s probably enough to get the job done!
You don’t need clen when you have 30kg to lose. If you’re going to use it, save it until you are closer to the end and you have exhausted more choices in manipulating your cardio and diet. Maybe when you have like 10kg to go or even less it will be more appropriate. You should have absolutely no problem losing weight without any fat burners with such an excess of fat.
Someone else mentioned t3, also 100% unnecessary until you’re lean enough that your hormone production is hampered by the lack of fat and you need to replace hormones therapeutically.
If you’re already doing the cardio and diet, with some test and a little gh it’s probably enough to get the job done!
I already watched it, steve is great. Cagri has a synergistic effect with reta since it act through a different pathway
I’d just run hgh alone. I’d pin the test more frequently and get away with less or zero ai, more stable levels. Although not opposed to ai use if you prefer.I’m planning a fat loss-focused cycle while maintaining muscle mass. My goal is to drop ~25-30kg of fat while keeping as much muscle as possible. Below is my planned compound list, dosages, and reasoning. I’d appreciate any feedback, optimizations, or advice before I finalize my order.
Hormonal Compounds (Anabolics & Testosterone)
Compound Dosage Purpose Testosterone Enanthate 150-300mg/week (2x per week injections) Muscle retention, mood, energy, prevents suppression Anavar (Oxandrolone) 10-20mg pre-workout Strength, fat loss, muscle retention, no water retention Peptides & Growth Factors
Compound Dosage Purpose HGH (Human Growth Hormone) 6 IU/day (3 IU AM + 3 IU PM) Fat loss, muscle preservation, IGF-1 boost MK-677 (Ibutamoren) 12.5-25mg daily (before bed) Boosts IGF-1, enhances HGH effects, improves sleep & recovery Fat Loss Enhancers
Compound Dosage Purpose Retatrutide Start 2mg/week, titrate up to 6-10mg/week Strongest GLP-1/GIP agonist for appetite suppression & fat loss Clenbuterol Start 20mcg/day, ramp to 40-60mcg/day Beta-2 agonist for fat loss, metabolic boost Estrogen & Hormone Management
Compound Dosage Purpose Aromasin (Exemestane) 12.5mg EOD (adjust as needed) Controls estrogen, prevents water retention & gyno Nolvadex (Tamoxifen) 20mg/day during PCT Helps restore natural testosterone post-cycle & HPTA Post-Cycle Therapy (PCT) & Recovery
Compound Dosage Purpose HCG (Human Chorionic Gonadotropin) 500 IU 3x per week (last 2 weeks of cycle) Maintains testicular function & LH stimulation HMG (Human Menopausal Gonadotropin) 75 IU 2-3x per week (PCT weeks 1-2) Restores LH & FSH, better recovery than HCG alone Enclomiphene 12.5mg/day (PCT weeks 1-4) Stimulates LH & FSH, restores natural test faster Support & Health
Compound Dosage Purpose Tadalafil (Cialis) 2.5-5mg nightly Improves blood flow, combats potential ED from low estrogen Dutasteride 0.5mg EOD DHT blocker, prevents hair loss from Test/Anavar Cycle Length & Structure
- Weeks 1-12: Test E, Anavar, HGH, Retatrutide, Clen, MK-677
- Weeks 10-12: HCG to prepare for PCT
- Weeks 13-16: PCT (HMG, Nolvadex, Enclomiphene)
Questions for the Forum
Appreciate any feedback! Looking to optimize this for max fat loss with minimal muscle loss.
- Would you keep Test E at 150mg/week or go up to 300mg?
- Should I remove Anavar, or is it worth keeping for strength and recomp?
- Would MK-677 + 6 IU HGH be overkill, or should I just run HGH alone?
- Any suggested adjustments?
Mk677 will increase appetite possibly even if taken at night, which is when the later diet fatigue takes its toll through lack of sleep due to hunger. I’d skip mk.
Hgh split 2x Is good. Consider bumping to 2.5iu 3x per day 6 or 7 hours apart between when in the home stretch if fat loss is stalling.
Which brings me to Clen, I’d begin Clen after the first 6-8 weeks of the diet are completed without beta 3 agonism. It’s not that Clen losing effect I’m
Afraid of.. it’s that fat loss becomes more challenging after a specific point, the faster you lose fat the sooner this happens. .. the first 4-8 weeks are a freebie anyways. I’d wait. Not because the Clen won’t work, but because you don’t need it, you do lose sensitivity to the personal beta 1 effects ( the ephedrine like effects ) which do increase NEAT (non exercise activity thermogenesis)
I’d save anavar for the end when your like leaner than you think would be lean enough for it to show effect. Even the most stoic person, seeing a sudden change in physique cosmetically, it’s a new visual que that you’ve got improvements happening and fuel to keep going.
The visual changes the first part of the diet will be so significant so quickly anyways, I’d personally never be able to tell what anavar was doing if anything. I personally don’t get any legit performance enhancing effect from it I don’t get with test etc. but if it helps you in the gym and you really feel it, and notice it. Then go for it whenever you want. I just personally notice no effect performance wise. It’s cosmetic only.
Lastly generally retatrutide is the “least” appetite suppressive of all the GLP1’s. Tirzepatide is better for this (for many people anyways). That part is true. But I haven’t run Reta yet to assess if there is any fat loss coming directly from the Reta. With how I personally structure my diets, I doubt I’d notice a difference if Retatrutide’s added glucagon agonism provided a noticeable difference in fat loss coming directly from the drug, not the calorie deficit it facilitates you eating at. I drop fat quickly my last cut I dropped for. 238 and over dieted a shitload down to 187 in 13 weeks. By week 5 I was already 214lb and looked to be 8-10% bodyfat.
Basically all the little fat loss aids I feel make most sense when trying to come into a show as best as possible- which also means a slow rate of dieting and simultaneously beginning that diet when your already striking distance of being single digits at the very most. The more fat you have to drop, the worse look on stage (at a certain point). And this is when the fat loss tools matter most for when going allll the way down deeep deeep deep down into the low single digits ranges where your entire body is micro veiny and or feathered up and down.
Thanks for the write up.
I ended up with just reta and hgh. 2iu is plenty if i pin pre cardio.
This whole thing made me realise there’s no magic pill to be stage ready without any work.
For reta, i noticed weight loss even without any extra calorie expenditure. But it doesn’t compare to how well it works when you do cardio.
I just ordered some cagrilintide, supposedly great for appetite control.
Not sure im ready for test yet.
Down 18kg. started 141kg, now 122.8
Biggerp73
Member
If you have never used steroids then don’t start using them. You’ll never want to come off and you’ll never be satisfied with your muscle. No matter how big you are, you’ll know it’s steroids and you’ll feel like it’s not big enough. If you are natty just stay natty and appreciate the real muscle you have that isn’t going to disappear because you stop using drugs.
But if you’ve already used gear, let me know and I’ll weed out the bad advice you have gotten in this thread. It seems like most people here have only been using gear a few years and have limited experience.
Humble-Beast
Member
Great job man, glad you kept it simple. Keep it up!
