Damaging the hormone?

[safarifilms]

Hey all

This may be a dumb question but I’m gonna ask anyway.

When brewing any raw to injectable does one damage the hormone if you brew the total contents past the hormones melting point?

Example if test E melt point is 30C and I brew it at 60C will it be damaged?

Does each compound need to be brewed at its melting point temp? Just want to make sure I’m doing it right.

Thanks guys

 

[Liberty Labs]

Hey all

This may be a dumb question but I’m gonna ask anyway.

When brewing any raw to injectable does one damage the hormone if you brew the total contents past the hormones melting point?

Example if test E melt point is 30C and I brew it at 60C will it be damaged?

Does each compound need to be brewed at its melting point temp? Just want to make sure I’m doing it right.

Thanks guys

No, when brewing the heat is used to help dissolving the raw into the carrier.

You don't have to brew at melting point,
some compounds have pretty high melting point, for example DHB is like 159C, but you don't have to heat it to that temperature.

Other compounds have low melting point, Equipoise, for example is liquid at room temperature, does it mean that it damages? No.
Same thing for Test E, brewing it past 30C up to 60C won't damage it.

The standard rule is that 50C or 60C should be enough to dissolve any compound, and won't damage it,
going past that temperature doesn't have any benefit, and may possibly damage the compound.

 

[safarifilms]

No, when brewing the heat is used to help dissolving the raw into the carrier.

You don't have to brew at melting point,
some compounds have pretty high melting point, for example DHB is like 159C, but you don't have to heat it to that temperature.

Other compounds have low melting point, Equipoise, for example is liquid at room temperature, does it mean that it damages? No.
Same thing for Test E, brewing it past 30C up to 60C won't damage it.

The standard rule is that 50C or 60C should be enough to dissolve any compound, and won't damage it,
going past that temperature doesn't have any benefit, and may possibly damage the compound.

Thank you so much for clarifying that for me. Merry Christmas

 

[filtros29]

No, when brewing the heat is used to help dissolving the raw into the carrier.

You don't have to brew at melting point,
some compounds have pretty high melting point, for example DHB is like 159C, but you don't have to heat it to that temperature.

Other compounds have low melting point, Equipoise, for example is liquid at room temperature, does it mean that it damages? No.
Same thing for Test E, brewing it past 30C up to 60C won't damage it.

The standard rule is that 50C or 60C should be enough to dissolve any compound, and won't damage it,
going past that temperature doesn't have any benefit, and may possibly damage the compound.

I know this has nothing to do with the topic, but does anyone here sterilize their vials in an autoclave with the oil already inside? I mean, I have the vials already sterilized and dried, once they are filled and filtered I normally seal them and that's it, but recently I've seen that there are people who sterilize everything together to finish the process, sounds good, but wouldn't this poison the benzyl benzoate and benzyl alcohol? I mean it's 138º Celsius, wouldn't that also degrade the hormone?

 

[mikeh1998]

I know this has nothing to do with the topic, but does anyone here sterilize their vials in an autoclave with the oil already inside? I mean, I have the vials already sterilized and dried, once they are filled and filtered I normally seal them and that's it, but recently I've seen that there are people who sterilize everything together to finish the process, sounds good, but wouldn't this poison the benzyl benzoate and benzyl alcohol? I mean it's 138º Celsius, wouldn't that also degrade the hormone?

Post in thread 'Toxicity of benzyl alcohol and benzyl benzoate'

Jan 1, 2025

It's fine.

This is an FDA compliant compounding pharmacy recipe for Test-cyp.


Look at the final sterilization in step 5.

https://www.medisca.net/pdf/shortage-support/en-us/injection/F%20004%20571v2%20Testosterone%20100%20mg%20per%20mL%20Intramuscular%20Injection.pdf

• Ghoul

• 
• 

 

[curveball2025]

Post in thread 'Toxicity of benzyl alcohol and benzyl benzoate'

Jan 1, 2025

It's fine.

This is an FDA compliant compounding pharmacy recipe for Test-cyp.


Look at the final sterilization in step 5.

https://www.medisca.net/pdf/shortage-support/en-us/injection/F%20004%20571v2%20Testosterone%20100%20mg%20per%20mL%20Intramuscular%20Injection.pdf

• Ghoul

• 
• 

This is the correct answer.

You can get further supporting information about degradation due to high temperature by reading section

2.7 DTA/TG Analysis​

of

Structural Insights and Intermolecular Energy for Some Medium and Long-Chain Testosterone Esters - PMC

Testosterone (17β-Hydroxyandrost-4-en-3-one) is the primary male anabolic-androgenic steroid. The crystal structures of two medium and two long esterified forms of testosterone, including enanthate, cypionate, decanoate and undecanoate, were ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

DTA/TG curves of analyzed compounds are shown in Figure S5 (Supporting Information). Small endothermic peaks appear at (42 °C for Tena), (97 °C for TCyp), (49 °C for TDec) and (65 °C for TUnd), and are assigned to the melting points of the compounds. It should be mentioned that TEna has the lowest melting point, and in the solubility evolution process it became gelatinous even though it was assessed at 14 °C.

With the increase in temperature, no thermal events occurred until the onset temperature of 320 °C for long esters (TDec, TUnd) and up to 350 °C for medium esters (TEna, TCyp).

Further, two broad exothermic peaks were recorded. The first peak had its maximum at the following temperatures: (381 °C, TEna), (393 °C, TCyp), (378 °C, TDec) and (387 °C, TUnd). This peak can be attributed to the process of degradation and oxidation of organic matter, accompanied by a significant loss of mass. The second exothermic peak, with maxima (544 °C, TEna), (537 °C, TCyp), (540 °C, TDec), (540 °C, TUnd), can be associated with the decomposition and oxidation of the remaining material simultaneously with a less significant loss of mass. Similar thermal behavior has been reported for other active pharmaceutical ingredients such as riboflavin and norfloxacin

This study has also been used here for reference purposes regarding testosterone solubility for different esters in different carrier oils. Unfortunately, a slight mathematical modification of the solubility results must be made to show the information using the same context we do about mg/ml in our normal discussions. If the results are not recalculated, we will mistakenly believe testosterone mg/ml limits are significantly higher than what we are used to, which is not the case.

I am curious if anyone else has found our misinterpretation "mistake."

 

[Biggerp73]

I don't heat to a specific temperature. I turn the oven on the lowest setting, keep it cracked open, and come check on the powder every few minutes to watch it as it slowly melts. The moment it's entirely melted, I remove it from heat. This process ensures the powder never goes even one iota above the minimum heat needed to melt it.

 

[Exhortae]

I heat below melting point. I always add bb before heating the raw.

 

[mikeh1998]

I don't heat to a specific temperature. I turn the oven on the lowest setting, keep it cracked open, and come check on the powder every few minutes to watch it as it slowly melts. The moment it's entirely melted, I remove it from heat. This process ensures the powder never goes even one iota above the minimum heat needed to melt it.

This technique (double boiling) should be a little easier.



Place your beaker into a shallow pan. Put water into the pan, set heat to high.

Once the beaker is at desired temp e.g. 50 C / 133 F set the heat to low. The beaker should remain warm and at stable at that temperature, no need to adjust heat or remove the beaker to control temperature.

 

[mikeh1998]

Btw as mentioned here, pharmaceutical testosterone finished vials are sterilized using dry heat at 160 C for 180 minutes as the final step.



Heating the solution up so that it dissolves or mixing better is perfectly fine, there’s no risk of damage whatsoever.

If anything use slightly more heat than you think you need so that the hormone dissolves better.

Unless you go full retard and heat it to 500 C of course

 

[29trt]

This technique (double boiling) should be a little easier.

View attachment 311775

Place your beaker into a shallow pan. Put water into the pan, set heat to high.

Once the beaker is at desired temp e.g. 50 C / 133 F set the heat to low. The beaker should remain warm and at stable at that temperature, no need to adjust heat or remove the beaker to control temperature.

Yeah don't do that.... Unless you heat it up again over 100*C to removed the water that gets in solution from the steam....
Get yourself an adjustable hot plate it's not that expensive, you can get it SH

 

[Sampei]

This is the correct answer.

You can get further supporting information about degradation due to high temperature by reading section

2.7 DTA/TG Analysis​

of

Structural Insights and Intermolecular Energy for Some Medium and Long-Chain Testosterone Esters - PMC

Testosterone (17β-Hydroxyandrost-4-en-3-one) is the primary male anabolic-androgenic steroid. The crystal structures of two medium and two long esterified forms of testosterone, including enanthate, cypionate, decanoate and undecanoate, were ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

DTA/TG curves of analyzed compounds are shown in Figure S5 (Supporting Information). Small endothermic peaks appear at (42 °C for Tena), (97 °C for TCyp), (49 °C for TDec) and (65 °C for TUnd), and are assigned to the melting points of the compounds. It should be mentioned that TEna has the lowest melting point, and in the solubility evolution process it became gelatinous even though it was assessed at 14 °C.

With the increase in temperature, no thermal events occurred until the onset temperature of 320 °C for long esters (TDec, TUnd) and up to 350 °C for medium esters (TEna, TCyp).

Further, two broad exothermic peaks were recorded. The first peak had its maximum at the following temperatures: (381 °C, TEna), (393 °C, TCyp), (378 °C, TDec) and (387 °C, TUnd). This peak can be attributed to the process of degradation and oxidation of organic matter, accompanied by a significant loss of mass. The second exothermic peak, with maxima (544 °C, TEna), (537 °C, TCyp), (540 °C, TDec), (540 °C, TUnd), can be associated with the decomposition and oxidation of the remaining material simultaneously with a less significant loss of mass. Similar thermal behavior has been reported for other active pharmaceutical ingredients such as riboflavin and norfloxacin

This study has also been used here for reference purposes regarding testosterone solubility for different esters in different carrier oils. Unfortunately, a slight mathematical modification of the solubility results must be made to show the information using the same context we do about mg/ml in our normal discussions. If the results are not recalculated, we will mistakenly believe testosterone mg/ml limits are significantly higher than what we are used to, which is not the case.

I am curious if anyone else has found our misinterpretation "mistake."

So looks like we can heat up shit quite a lot without any kind of degradation at least for testosterone.

I wonder if other substances are different...

 

[HereToTeachAndLearn]

Here is further support of dry heat sterilization. Below is a FDA notice documenting a violation of dry heat sterilization procedures for a compounding pharmacy.

 

[Sampei]

So looks like we can heat up shit quite a lot without any kind of degradation at least for testosterone.

I wonder if other substances are different...

The issue is... I wouldn't be happy to hear carrier oil close to 100c or more