Depression / Anxiety and HRT

Kroms_laugh

New Member
Bros,
I've heard a lot of brothers say that since they've started TRT, they've become depressed or have anxiety problems. I currently have depression/anxiety without HRT... will HRT help or hurt my current situation? (knowledge: I start HRT next week).
 
Krom: Did you get your doc situation worked out? I haven't been reading here much...what are you gonna be doing as far as meds/dosages/etc ?

I had problems with depression and anxiety for several years leading up to HRT. HRT was pursued as a possible root cause after finding consistent low T levels. From my personal experience, I can say that HRT has helped tremendously in the anxiety/agitation department. I feel more calm on it. In terms of depression, I still have my ups and downs, but the HRT is (imo) a mood stabilizer and keeps things within a closer range.

Sonny
 
Thank you for your quick response, Sonny.

actually, I filed a complaint with the Kansas Board of Healing Arts, and they confronted him about his actions regarding my first visit with him. He's under the microscope to say the least.

After the Pituitary MRI, semen analysis, and yet ANOTHER blood test:
My levels are lower than they've ever been
I've got no anomalies with my pituitary gland that might have caused my T deficiency (good call, Swale)
And I've average fertility (apparently)

I really don't mind the depression, I've got ways of dealing with that now (got a kid, and that little boy is an inspiration to be every minute). I just don't like the anxiety. If that subsides with the introduction of Testosterone, I'll be a happy man.

BTW, is lithium taken for anything other than depression? Because is worse comes to worse, I could always say I'm taking it for something else for my fire services entrance examination.

Thanks again.
 
I've become more assertive with HRT and don't have any more panic attacks as I used to when speaking in public. BTW there is a lithium orotate available over the counter but I don't know how effective it is for depression/anxiety.
 
usufruct99 said:
I've become more assertive with HRT and don't have any more panic attacks as I used to when speaking in public. BTW there is a lithium orotate available over the counter but I don't know how effective it is for depression/anxiety.

Wow.. thank you, bro. I'll definately investigate.

I am taking 'intercultural communication' because 'public speaking' would literally kill me if I had to speak infront of a group of people. I once had to have an ambulance after reading to a class. That's how bad it is.

Thanks again, bro.
 
Kroms_laugh,

My depression and anxiety has improved since beginning TRT. I was already on 300mg Welbutrin and 225mg Effexor before beginning TRT. I have been on antidepressants and anti anxiety meds since 1996. I have taken Prozac, Celexa and another anti-anxiety med whose name escapes me. Since going on TRT reduced the Effexor to 150mg without any problems (many experience severe withdrawal symptoms) and plan to go further.

My outlook has improved. I no longer worry constantly and unnecessarily about minor things. I feel more positive and I can accomplish more. I enjoy spending time with my kids more. I work better. I'm less irritable and don't lose my temper as much. Making decisions is a little easier. I feel happy most of the time instead gloomy. Overall, TRT has been a huge plus for me.

The only negative so far has been this damn water retention, which I have been trying to control with OTC diuretics.

EDIT: Since posting this morning, I have just returned from a visit to my PCP (actually, a new doctor in the practice that I met for the first time today.) After getting my history, he concluded that the water retention was not a problem, and would probably lessen as I continue to lose bodyfat, since there would be less pressure inside my torso that could be restricting the flow of fluids now. Blood pressure was 112 over 70, and there was no sign of congestive heart failure. We also came up with a plan to wean me off the damned Effexor (if anyone reading this plans on going on Effexor, please consider a different antidepressant such as Prozac or Celexa first). So let me conclude by saying that the water retention is not a big issue for me, and that the benefits of TRT far outweigh the negatives for me. I should also add that my fasting blood sugar dropped nine points since going on TRT. This is a good thing, because my value always hovered around 99, which is one point below what they consider "pre diabetic."
 
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Don't know your age Krom, this might apply. However, I guess if you are starting trt next week you might not want dhea to cloud the picture immediately. A few women on another board have advocated dhea for depression over multiple trials of antidepressants.

: Arch Gen Psychiatry. 2005 Feb;62(2):154-62. Related Articles, Links


Dehydroepiandrosterone monotherapy in midlife-onset major and minor depression.

Schmidt PJ, Daly RC, Bloch M, Smith MJ, Danaceau MA, St Clair LS, Murphy JH, Haq N, Rubinow DR.

Behavioral Endocrinology Branch, National Institute of Mental Health, Rockville, MD 20892-1276, USA. PeterSchmidt@mail.nih.gov <PeterSchmidt@mail.nih.gov>

CONTEXT: Alternative and over-the-counter medicines have become increasingly popular choices for many patients who prefer not to take traditional antidepressants. The adrenal androgen and neurosteroid dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) is available as over-the-counter hormonal therapy and previously has been reported to have antidepressant-like effects. OBJECTIVE: To evaluate the efficacy of DHEA as a monotherapy treatment for midlife-onset depression. DESIGN: A double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled, crossover treatment study was performed from January 4, 1996, through August 31, 2002.Settings The National Institute of Mental Health Midlife Outpatient Clinic in the National Institutes of Health Clinical Center, Bethesda, Md.Patients Men (n = 23) and women (n = 23) aged 45 to 65 years with midlife-onset major or minor depression participated in this study. None of the subjects received concurrent antidepressant medications.Intervention Six weeks of DHEA therapy, 90 mg/d for 3 weeks and 450 mg/d for 3 weeks, and 6 weeks of placebo. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: The 17-Item Hamilton Depression Rating Scale and Center for Epidemiologic Studies Depression Scale. Additional measures included the Derogatis Interview for Sexual Functioning. Results were analyzed by means of repeated-measures analysis of variance and post hoc Bonferroni t tests. RESULTS: Six weeks of DHEA administration was associated with a significant improvement in the 17-Item Hamilton Depression Rating Scale and the Center for Epidemiologic Studies Depression Scale ratings compared with both baseline (P<.01) and 6 weeks of placebo treatment (P<.01). A 50% or greater reduction in baseline Hamilton Depression Rating Scale scores was observed in 23 subjects after DHEA and in 13 subjects after placebo treatments. Six weeks of DHEA treatment also was associated with significant improvements in Derogatis Interview for Sexual Functioning scores relative to baseline and placebo conditions. CONCLUSION: We find DHEA to be an effective treatment for midlife-onset major and minor depression.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
 
Krom:

Lithium is used for many things, but they are all psychiatric in nature (as far as I know).

It is used to control mania in certain types of bipolar disorders.
It is used to augment the effect of anti-depressants when anti-depressants alone are not enough to control someone's depression.
It is sometimes used for people with alcoholism.
It is used as a mood stabilizer for people with mood stability problems.

I fall into the last category. Over the years, I've had recurrent problems with anxiety and depression. I'm sure there are other uses for it, but those are the ones that come to mind.

I had big hangups about taking lithium that set me back a long time. When you think about it though, it is probably one of the most "natural" psychiatric meds out there. I saw a study once awhile ago that stated that basically throughout time, they have found civilizations where there were higher amounts of lithium in the drinking water. It was also noted that these groups of people had significantly more stable and happy lives from a mental standpoint. The conclusion was that the water was a key factor.

Sonny
 
I've never felt better since starting HRT. I believe I was bipolar, and suffered bouts of really bad depression for years before going on HRT.

I'd have really massive highs, but then go for months in really bad lows for no particular reason.

Also, relationships were a disaster because I was so insecure and sensitive to everything. Now I feel completely stable, and strong. I'm much more secure and I haven't had a bad day since starting HRT. If something really bad happens, I feel bad about it, or sad, but not massively depressed or anything, and I'm able to get over it really quickly.

As swale says, depression can't be treated successfully while a person is testosterone defficient. (99% sure its swale who said this).
 
Can you guys (stez, earthdog, usufruct) post your current treatment regimes? I assume most of you are following Swale's protocol or a variant of it.

Me: 100mg Test Cyp/week + 500 iu of HCG/week (spread over 4 days)

Sonny
 
I'm currently on:

125mg Test Enanthate E5D
200-250iu HCG EOD
25mg Proviron ED

However the mood changes came just from the test alone, before even adding hcg/prov.
 
Stez said:
I've never felt better since starting HRT. I believe I was bipolar, and suffered bouts of really bad depression for years before going on HRT.

I'd have really massive highs, but then go for months in really bad lows for no particular reason.

Also, relationships were a disaster because I was so insecure and sensitive to everything. Now I feel completely stable, and strong. I'm much more secure and I haven't had a bad day since starting HRT. If something really bad happens, I feel bad about it, or sad, but not massively depressed or anything, and I'm able to get over it really quickly.

As swale says, depression can't be treated successfully while a person is testosterone defficient. (99% sure its swale who said this).

The same thing for me when I first got sick and was to see a lot of Dr.'s and they could not find anything wrong they said I was suffering from Depression. I was treated for Depression for 5 yrs. and on every kind of AD Drug on the market. I never felt better I felt worse. I got a bad bladder infection from trying Prozac and had to see a Uro this Dr. told me he thinks I have Low T and that I am not suffering from Depression. I was on so much shit I had to go in to a Rehab Clinic to get off the crap. Once I started on TRT I got much better and was able to get back to work after being off of work more then I was there. Yet after starting on T I got bad panic attacks and had them for over 15 yrs. Just last yr. we found out it was high E2 Estradiol that caused me to have panic attacks in the middle of the night.
Now I am doing better then I have in the last 21 yrs. of this. I do feel I was never suffering from Depression and taking the SSRI meds caused me more harm then good.
Phil
 
While I don't doubt that antidepressants were detrimental to Phil, I must say that they did help me somewhat. They kept me out of deep despair and more on an even keel, emotionally. Prozac, Celexa and Welbutrin were all helpful. I do not recommend Effexor, though, because of the harsh withdrawal symptoms some folks experience. But I wonder if I could have avoided them completely when I came to my former-PCP in 1996 and tested 260 or so for total T (scale was 200 something - 1000) and he refused to do anything about it.

I wanted to add one more positive benefit of TRT, and that is that I seem to recover from my workouts better now. Previous to TRT, 3 workouts a week consisting of 1/2 hr weights and 1/2 hr cardio would result in overtraining for me. I would end up exhausted and sick. I had to keep my weight training to 2 days a week or less. Now, I'm doing 3 workouts a week consiting of 45-60 minutes of weights and 30-45minutes of cardio and I feel good. I know I could do better by doing more days or breaking up the cardio and weights, but that is all I have time for right now, and all my wife has agreed to "let" me do. :rolleyes:

I must also add that I consider myself blessed to have found Dr. John Crisler as a physician (Swale you can put the 50 bucks in the mail anytime :) ).
 
TRT has been shown to be phenomenally effective for treating underlying depression and anxiety. IMPO, you cannot successfully treat these conditions without first adressing the underlying hypogonadism.

Experiencing an exacerbation of anxiety CAN occur when DHT levels are boosted too high for a particular individual, usually only when a transdermal has been prescribed at too high a dose.
 
HeadDoc--This study demonstrates how POOR the writing can be with scientific studies. The abstract provides no breakdown mentioned as to differential responses between male and female subjects. Did you get the chance to see the entire paper? I would be interested in knowing a bit more about it.

The authors demonstrate absolutley no appreaciation, or even awareness, of the vast differences between males and females with respect to their hormonal systems.

As you guys have read from me before, we always have to be careful when extrapolating studies conducted on females to males. Were a male to take 450mg of DHEA per day, or even the lower 90mg QD dose, he would experience even more problems, as estrogen levels would elevate, but not testosterone. I cannot for the life of me see how increasing estrogen, with a subsequent decrease in testosterone, would help any man's depressive symptoms. Especially at mid-life, when T/E ratio is already dropping.

However, since you CAN raise T levels in females with DHEA, this shows TRT effectively treats depression in females, too.
 
I can tell you that before HRT when suffering from hypogonadism I felt mild depression, anxiety, and general apathy. HRT makes me feel confident, in control, and I don't worry as much about items I have no control over. This is one of the major reasons I've chosen to stay on HRT.
 
Astrozombie said:
I can tell you that before HRT when suffering from hypogonadism I felt mild depression, anxiety, and general apathy. HRT makes me feel confident, in control, and I don't worry as much about items I have no control over. This is one of the major reasons I've chosen to stay on HRT.

This is interesting to me because not only do I have no interest in sex, I have no interest in doing anything else either. Back when I was healthy I played basketball 3 nights a week and played golf at least 4 days a week if not 5. I haven't set foot on a basketball court in two years and I might have played golf 10 times in two years. I can tell I have lost a lot of strength even though my body weight has remained about the same.

Being generally apathetic is a good description of how I feel. Did you have to see an endo to determine if you needed HRT?
 
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